Wheeling Island Trip Report (LOL)

Greetings!

That's right, I'm going to do a trip report on Wheeling Island Hotel, Casino, Racetrack, which is my, "Home," casino and is within fifty miles of where I live.

This whole thing basically started Wednesday night (technically, early a.m. Thursday) because I went to Wheeling Island to run some Free Play through and I happened to notice an advertisement that said an individual would get a free hotel room by earning 200 base points, in one day, on his/her Player's Club Card.

I recall thinking that it was a pretty cool promotion because I can always appreciate a promotion that is very straight up in its terms and player friendly. The expected loss on a slot machine in order to pursue 200 points, and assuming a 90% return, is $100 aside from the fact that you would get $2.00 back in comp dollars/free play as the points return .2% of money with no multiplier.

I didn't originally intend to go after it, though.

I happened upon a Video Keno Progressive which was in positive territory if the player were to hit 6/6, so I decided that I would be willing to spend up to $50 going after it, given that it would be a pretty nice hit. The game was Frost & Fire Keno, and I was down about $40 until I hit three Bonus Games in relatively quick succession which put me up about $30.

I also noticed I was at 200 points on that machine, so I called someone over (the computers can be wonky in the morning, sometimes) to make sure I had an employee witness the fact that I had 200 points just on that machine. We then went to the self-service promotional kiosk, and I was able to print out my voucher for the free room.

The free room was any night from Sunday-Thursday for the remainder of January OR first week of February, we used it on Thursday 1/16/2014. Initially, I had tried to sell it, but my best offer was $20, so my wife and I decided we would have a, "Date night," instead. Fortunately, for me, after her discovery of Video Poker in Las Vegas, it turns out that she actually likes gambling a little bit...she used to think she hated it, but all she ever tried was slots. The only slot machine she likes is Quick Hits, and she even says those are, "Just OK."

I had a bunch of stuff to do Thursday and had to go pick up my sister (who was baby-sitting), but I stopped at the casino with her to check into the room ahead of time. I had made my reservations over the phone for a Smoking King (my wife still smokes) and took my sister up to check out the room.

I want to give Wheeling Island some props for the rooms, and I'll post up some pictures, probably tomorrow or the next day, but their rooms there are actually the highlight of the casino. While it may lack a refrigerator, the King room was very spacious, had a desk with two chairs, an armchair, and was probably the size of a really good Limited Service hotel room. The bathroom may have been a little small, but the décor and fixtures were pretty nice. The only curious thing was an overhead drop panel (with a key lock) above the shower perhaps six inches by three inches and rectangular...must be a pipe access of some sort.

This was another room that was superficially excellent, prior to really looking it over I was raving about it to The Wizard via text. The air conditioner filter had not been cleaned out for a matter of weeks, or perhaps even a month, though the bathroom vent fan was clean. The top bed cover had some dark hair on it and also some little white specks of I don't know what, the top sheet also had a bit of hair on it, but the bottom sheet was fine. They could have probably gotten the vacuum a little further under the bed than they did, there were a couple scraps of paper on the far side of the bed under the window, and there was a little bit of dust on the outside of the HVAC unit itself.

The water pressure and temperature were both outstanding, at its hottest, the shower is unbearably hot which is a good thing.

Overall, I was originally inclined to give the room an 8/10 before taking a closer look. After that, I was still inclined to go 6.5/10, but I think that I am giving it a little too much credit just because I am surprised that a casino with such a crappy main floor would have decent rooms at all. Therefore, I am going to go 6/10...the cleanliness sub-score is 3/10.

My wife and I decided to try the buffet prior to doing anything else, and let me just say, the buffet is not what it used to be.

The total cost for a Thursday night dinner buffet was $36.10, and it may have been worth half of that, if I am in a really generous mood.

The selection was pretty good, overall, though really heavy on American and Italian, which you can get pretty much anywhere else in this area. There was an Oriental food section, but that was limited to perhaps six different items. I'm just going to break down what I had and say what I thought about it:

DINNER FOOD:

Grilled Chicken-Excellent, very juicy.
Grilled Steak-Dry, Bland, Unseasoned...and, no...it's not a steak that can, "Speak for itself."
Pot Roast-Very good, except not enough meat, or anything else, you really had to play with that ladle to get anything substantial, even when they brought a new pot out.
Prime Rib-TERRIBLE, SPOILED, RANCID, I didn't notice the discoloration before I took a bite. My wife saw something she thought she'd never see, me spit something into a napkin. She said, "It must have been really spoiled, half the time, you'd shrug and say something stupid like, 'have to die of something,' and eat it anyway!"
Grilled Sausage-Severely Overcooked, bland.
Spiral Ham-Somewhat Overcooked, bland.
Lobster Egg Roll-What lobster?
Vegetable Spring Roll-Acceptable, average.
Thai Chili Ribs-Perhaps the strangest thing I've ever had. They were just hot (spicy), but that's all they were. They somehow burnt my mouth, but did not taste like anything.
Shrimp Pasta Alfredo (Made to Order)-My wife had it, not me, but the shrimp were puny, the sauce was watery, and she said it sucked.

BEVERAGE:

Coffee, of course, it was surprisingly quite rich and bold. Also, they leave an entire metal coffee pot (four cups, I would guess) on the table, so you never have to worry about waiting. It was not a cheap pot as the coffee stayed piping hot (initially undrinkable, as it should be) for at least an hour. 9/10 on the coffee.

DESSERT:

The first thing that I should mention, and I don't know why, but they got rid of the chocolate fountain that everyone loved.

In any event, though, the desserts were still excellent. I had the Red Velvet Layer Cake, the Strawberry Cheesecake Cup, Tiramisu, a slice of Apple Pie, some kind of chocolate cake in a cup that I don't know what it was and something similar to a Pirouette, but triangular.

The Strawberry Cheesecake cup was also superb, extremely creamy and the Red Velvet layer cake was spectacular, terrific consistency.

Buffet Conclusion

Even with the excellent desserts and great coffee, the buffet isn't worth half of the price. The seating (in our case) was also pretty bad, a square table about the size of a café table with straight-back chairs with thin cushioning. The table is the worst part, though, except when the waitress is fast collecting plates because there is no comfortable way to have two beverages, a pot of coffee, two used plates and two new plates of food on the table at the same time. I actually made something of a habit of finding a vacant (but used and the people left) table upon which to set used plates when going up for more stuff.

If you've ever been to a Ponderosa, Bonanza, or American Steak Buffet, this is pretty much the same thing, except with terrific desserts. It's worth maybe $10/apiece, and even then, I'd only get it if I planned to load up on desserts. I would be surprised if I ever eat there again, with exception to eat being a discretionary comp, (I'd go in, drink coffee and eat desserts) and I would DEFINITELY not eat there again at any price (including free) if it did not have such great desserts and coffee.

Continued

My wife and I briefly returned to the room after dinner. Wheeling Island Hotel, Casino, Racetrack does not comp beverages when you are playing unless you are betting at least $5/spin in the High Limit Slots room or betting your first born child, in place of chips, on the Pass Line. For this reason, I strongly suggested we mix up a few SoCo and Cokes to take downstairs, but my wife wouldn't have it, so we had a few drinks in the room.

My wife and I went and played some Video Poker for awhile and came out a little bit ahead. There was a drawing for the Free Play Mega Spin at 7:00p.m., so we were mainly just playing to see if we would get chosen for that, but we did not.

After that drawing concluded, which took about a half hour because they had to also call people to replace the people who did not show up in the allotted ten minutes, we went back up to the room to play cards and do other stuff.

I went back down just before 9:00p.m. to see if either of us would get called for the Free Play Mega Spin. My wife stated that Video Poker is not as much fun when you aren't getting free drinks and that she doesn't want to lose any money and feel like she didn't get anything out of it, so she stayed in the room and told me to get her if she won.

Through circumstances that I am not at liberty to discuss, I already had 100+ points, despite the fact that I had gambled very little that day. Therefore, I decided to finish getting to 200 in order to get another hotel room...that's only kind of true...PM for details if you really must know. I finished $5.00 ahead and got the points.

Anyway, I played some JoB and got the other 100 points, when the Kiosk did not give me the option to print out my Voucher, I went to Player's Services to explain the situation. They stated that players could only redeem one such voucher per week and that they could not give me a voucher because they have to be really conservative with the room count as, technically, they theoretically have more vouchers out ALREADY for the time period than they have rooms available.

I explained that I got 200 points ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to get the hotel voucher, but told them I'd be willing to settle for some Free Play...it ended up being $50 of it, and even I was not expecting that.

I ran through the Free Play on JoB (Return $43.75) and then I went to play some Craps.

My brief Craps session went extremely well! I proceeded to walk up to the table and was left of the woman who was shooting the dice, but one of the dealers informed me that I would have to bet something on this day if I wanted the dice right away, otherwise, they'd have to go around once. It was for this reason only that I Placed the Six (the point had already been established, forget what it was) and the woman hit the Six ($7 for me) then she hit it again (Press to $12, $1 hand-in) but then she sevened-out.

My turn!!!

I had an incredible roll as I established and made a Point of Five on three consecutive hands (overall) and on four consecutive hands if you ignore CO winners and losers. I had three CO winners against one CO loser, which I didn't pay for, because a gentleman at the end of the table (after my second five made) was making a crapload of money on my roll and was tipping me in the form of posting a $1 Crap Check on my behalf, so I came out ahead $2.00 on that!!!

I was playing only single odds, so I ultimately won $69, total, I believe it was, but I had tipped a total of about $10 including a $5 hand-in when I left the table, so ahead about $59, make it $57 because I tipped the cage $2.

I went back up to the room and hung out with my wife some more. My wife and I played some cards for awhile, and then she got hungry again (she had an even lower opinion of the buffet that I did, as evidenced by how little she ate) and the Deli at the Food Court was the only thing open, so that's where I went.

I believe it was $8.99, but I got my wife a Virginia Ham half sandwich (still HUGE) combo with the bowl of chili as it was the only soup at the time and I really couldn't think of what side my wife would actually want. In any event, my wife declared that the sandwich would be too big for her and told me to eat the chili, as well, so I told her just to eat the sandwich until she was done with it and I would polish off whatever was left.

In any event, the chili was nothing special, a bit more hardy than that at Wendy's, and perhaps just a little less bland (more spicy) but not worth significantly more than fast food chili. The sandwich, however, was excellent! The bread was fresh and very fluffy, and the Virginia Ham and Cheese were clearly high-quality and very fresh.

Honestly, I would recommend two people to go to the Food Court Deli and spend $8.99/apiece there before I would recommend going to the buffet for the same price, again, unless you are going to load up on desserts.

After dinner, my wife and I hung out in the room some more, and then she decided to go to bed, so I went back downstairs. I played Craps for about two hours, up an down, Table Minimum Pass Line only, not even taking Odds and ended up even. After that, I went and lost $10 on Video Poker. I drank a two beers at $3.50/each + $1.50 tip during this time.

It was still a nice Wednesday/Thursday, though, what was won was slightly in excess of what was spent/tipped/lost, perhaps $30-$40, total, so I'll take it.

Conclusion/Ranks

Room Amenities: 6/10
Room Cleanliness: 3/10
Staff Service: 9/10
Room Quality: 6/10
Check-In Process: 6/10

Buffet: 4/10 (2/10 if not for the dessert, dessert scores 9/10)

Food Court Deli: 7.5/10

The rooms I had been in years ago, but don't remember much besides them being nicely decorated with comfortable beds. Cleanliness I can't recall but think I'm less attentive to those details than you with it being your career.

The buffet was ok a few months ago to me with the only thing I didn't like being the Chinese. They did have nicer offerings than other places, but didn't have problems with spoiled food. I didn't take notes but do remember loving the desserts and not liking one piece of steak, but did like another. Neither was paid for and I think I'm more forgiving when not paying directly with cash. I ate on a Friday night and suspect it was busier without food sitting too long.

Did you complain about the prime rib being spoiled and if so, was there a response? Was it worked into the $50 free play comp? Nice score with it by the way.

Is it common for people to complain about vents dirty etc? Do they get sick from them? Health codes violations? Maybe you can do consultations for these hotels. Just an idea since you're so good at running a tight ship with yours obviously.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

The rooms I had been in years ago, but don't remember much besides them being nicely decorated with comfortable beds. Cleanliness I can't recall but think I'm less attentive to those details than you with it being your career.

They are still nicely decorated and I found the bed to be very comfortable. The throw pillows are a strange choice because they are not ones with a removable cover, and are somewhat light, so when something gets on them, they are virtually unwashable. Ours had a red stain from something, but it was faded such that you could tell they tried to wash it.

I didn't complain about the buffet to anyone, thanks for the compliment on the score! I don't typically complain about food, especially not at buffets, there is enough there that is in good shape that it is a simple matter to get something else. People will vote with their feet, and judging from the crowd at the buffet on a Thursday night, most of them were voting, "Yes," anyway.

I appreciate the thought, but I would be very surprised if anyone hired me as a housekeeping consultant. That's mainly because my experience is as a manager at two different low-level franchise hotels that are both small compared to other places.

It's not very common for people to complain about dirty vents, but all of the dust that gets into the air can pose a problem for people with asthma and is often the cause of someone thinking that smoking has been going on in a non-smoking room when it has not. Furthermore, if anyone is experiencing any kind of cold or sinus related issue, then that can be exacerbated by dust that need not be in the air.

I'm not aware of the West Virginia health code because I have never managed a hotel in that State, but in the State of Ohio, the State Fire Marshal also effectively doubles as the health inspector for hotels for the State. There's also a County Health Inspector. The State Fire Marshal would definitely order that an air vent that is covered in dust be cleaned, although, I have never seen the Fire Marshal check an air conditioner filter. The County Health Inspector has only ever came around to make sure there is no evidence of smoking in indoor public areas, he doesn't seem to care about anything else.

As with any other hotel, mine has imperfections aplenty, some people just have different things that they tend to focus on. Of course, we wouldn't have some of the problems we do if I could get the kind of budget that I wanted for certain projects, but it is what it is.

Quote: Mission146

DINNER FOOD:

Grilled Chicken-Excellent, very juicy.
Grilled Steak-Dry, Bland, Unseasoned...and, no...it's not a steak that can, "Speak for itself."
Pot Roast-Very good, except not enough meat, or anything else, you really had to play with that ladle to get anything substantial, even when they brought a new pot out.
Prime Rib-TERRIBLE, SPOILED, RANCID, I didn't notice the discoloration before I took a bite. My wife saw something she thought she'd never see, me spit something into a napkin. She said, "It must have been really spoiled, half the time, you'd shrug and say something stupid like, 'have to die of something,' and eat it anyway!"
Grilled Sausage-Severely Overcooked, bland.
Spiral Ham-Somewhat Overcooked, bland.
Lobster Egg Roll-What lobster?
Vegetable Spring Roll-Acceptable, average.
Thai Chili Ribs-Perhaps the strangest thing I've ever had. They were just hot (spicy), but that's all they were. They somehow burnt my mouth, but did not taste like anything.
Shrimp Pasta Alfredo (Made to Order)-My wife had it, not me, but the shrimp were puny, the sauce was watery, and she said it

You really have to learn to do the walk thru
at a buffet. Just cut the line and walk in like
you paid and survey all the food. You can
tell if the meats are overcooked just by
looking at them. If it looks dried out, it's
over cooked. If there are lots of bean and
pasta dishes, avoid. Lots of pizza, avoid.
Lots of Mexican food, avoid. It's all
under seasoned and over cooked.

If you see stations where they cook food
to order, that's a good sign. Fried fish
and shrimp and other seafood is also a
good sign. Big variety in desserts is good.
Buffets like to play it safe by offering
overcooked everything and carbo heavy
dishes. Avoid those places.

It has some good and bad, then. I actually forgot that I tried a piece of fried cod and some fried shrimp, nothing really good or bad about either of those two things, there. My wife found the fried cod a bit, "Squishy," but I thought it was pretty normal. The dessert variety is good, there, except I wish they'd bring back the chocolate fountain.

They basically have all of your good signs, it's just that the food is not very good, except the desserts. One thing that I found strangely absent was any kind of a baked fish, usually a buffet has at least one kind of baked fish.

Main Street Station buffet did not have a lot of pizza, I think maybe only cheese and pepperoni...but there may have been one other...although I thought the pizza they did have was pretty good, by the standards of a buffet pizza.

Quote: Mission146

circumstances that I am not at liberty to discuss

I assume Paigowdan would not approve.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

the only thing I didn't like being the Chinese.

You have to get used to all the Asians in casinos, there's just a lot of Asian gamblers. Get over it.

Quote: odiousgambit

I assume Paigowdan would not approve.



You have to get used to all the Asians in casinos, there's just a lot of Asian gamblers. Get over it.

Tip

j/k

That.'s funny.

Glad to see playing some more Craps. For one thing, I can't picture you doing anything that would upset PG-Dan, and I want you to stay on his good side. [g]

Quote: Mission146

but one of the dealers informed me that I would have to bet something on this day if I wanted the dice right away, otherwise, they'd have to go around once.

You mean the other players would complain that you got to shoot too soon? Never heard of that.

Quote:

It was for this reason only that I Placed the Six

If the puck is on you know you could make a Come bet instead?

Quote:

I had an incredible roll as I established and made a Point of Five on three consecutive hands (overall) and on four consecutive hands if you ignore CO winners and losers.

I think you are describing one hand. It's one hand until you 7-out, no matter rolling Craps or making your point.

Quote:

a gentleman at the end of the table (after my second five made) was making a crapload of money on my roll and was tipping me in the form of posting a $1 Crap Check on my behalf, so I came out ahead $2.00 on that!!!

He got excited because somebody made 2 points in a hand? Must have been a cold table till then!

Quote:

I was playing only single odds

I suggest moving up to 2X odds. You can stay there at 2X for the rest of your life, and not a peep out of me, but you gotta do 2x. For one thing, it's a pain to have to remember to throw an extra dollar to get paid right on points of 5 or 9 [if the line bet is $5 or $15 etc] and even if you do that it's a pain for everybody including the dealers.

Crazy detail! And good job on getting more freeplay than the likely comp value of the room! Sounds like you played a decent amount of 6/5 JoB though. Reading that makes me sad and angry at the same time over their stupid laws. Did your wife try 94.82% deuces instead? lol

And what's the BS about selectively comping drinks? Either comp them or don't, imo. I'd much prefer the first option, but being from Missouri, I'm more familiar with the second.

Quote: tringlomane

Crazy detail! And good job on getting more freeplay than the likely comp value of the room! Sounds like you played a decent amount of 6/5 JoB though. Reading that makes me sad and angry at the same time over their stupid laws. Did your wife try 94.82% deuces instead? lol

And what's the BS about selectively comping drinks? Either comp them or don't, imo. I'd much prefer the first option, but being from Missouri, I'm more familiar with the second.

Thanks for the compliment!

The JoB is actually 9/5, believe it or not, I think they get away with it because of the auto-hold feature on the Spielo GTECH Pick N' Play machines. The way it works is the machine aiuto-holds based on highest probability of winning, not expected value, but the player can change the holds. For example, if you have:

Ks, Qs, Js, 10s, Jd

The machine will keep the Jacks in favor of the four-Royal because the probability of the Jacks being a winning hand is 100%.

The only problem is that the game kind of is difficult to get into a rhythm because you have to be careful that it doesn't hold something stupid. Some of the auto-holds are beyond stupid.

Anyway, I think the auto-hold, "Strategy," would put the player under 95% ER if they just did what the machine said, so I think that 's how they get away with the game. I could be wrong, and my mathematical ability is nowhere near sufficient to determine the ER on a, "Best probability to win the hand," strategy, so I don't know for sure.

Maybe the State of West Virginia has just never noticed, who knows?

Quote: odiousgambit

Glad to see playing some more Craps. For one thing, I can't picture you doing anything that would upset PG-Dan, and I want you to stay on his good side.

PGD would not have liked it.

Quote:

You mean the other players would complain that you got to shoot too soon? Never heard of that.

That's what I am guessing, maybe there was a player at the table who already complained earlier in the day, I have no idea...but there were four other players at the table at the time I got there. In any event, I don't believe that they (or anyone else anywhere) had asked me to start betting to get the dice next previously, and I pretty habitually try to get to the shooter's immediate left so as to shoot sooner.

Quote:

If the puck is on you know you could make a Come bet instead?

I have no excuse for not making a Come Bet, mathematically speaking. The reason that I didn't make a Come Bet is because I secretly always want to Place Six and Eight, but do not ever do so, and the fact that I had to bet not on my roll seemed like a good enough excuse to Place the Six.

Quote:

I think you are describing one hand. It's one hand until you 7-out, no matter rolling Craps or making your point.

Yes, in that event, one hand. Please excuse me, I've always just used, "Hand," to describe, "Decision," never realized it referred to the entire turn to shoot.

Quote:

He got excited because somebody made 2 points in a hand? Must have been a cold table till then!

I have no idea, but he was initially going $25 PL with the full $100 Odds on the Five, so ahead $175 on each of those, and then on the third and fourth he was going $100 with $400 odds (At THAT casino, WHY!?) and so he came out +$700 the last two times around. I don't recall if he was checking Crap for himself or not, I mainly just pay attention to what I am doing, in fact, never realized he was checking Crap for me until then and didn't thank him until that hit. If he was not checking, then he came out ahead $200 on the CO's so +$1950 total, but then my last point established was Eight, so he would have lost $600 on that and come out +$1350 on my roll, overall.

I suggested he must be doing well after that, but he said he was still down a couple grand. It's no wonder. Winning $350 and then going $100 PL + $400 Odds on the next roll, going to lose that way eventually...

Quote:

I suggest moving up to 2X odds. You can stay there at 2X for the rest of your life, and not a peep out of me, but you gotta do 2x. For one thing, it's a pain to have to remember to throw an extra dollar to get paid right on points of 5 or 9 [if the line bet is $5 or $15 etc] and even if you do that it's a pain for everybody including the dealers.

I usually do 2x Odds, I just wasn't really in the mood to go 2x that day. Sometimes I do 2x, sometimes single, sometimes no odds. I'll occasionally go the full 3x on a point of 4 or 10 because the chance at 2:1 is just too attractive to pass up, sometimes.

As far as the dealers are concerned, I take good enough care of them that it is a non-consideration. If they don't like me after the way I take care of them, (which they do) they can stick it. I'm not saying they make a ton off of me, but relative to my bet level, I am very generous...and I tip win or lose.

I have not been to the buffet in about 3 years but I used to really enjoy it. One thing a lot of people don't know is that the pasta station will also make quesadillas. I am surprised you didn't have any coupons for the buffet. I haven't been there in 3 years and I still get a BOGO in the mail each month.

Quote: Mission146

That's what I am guessing, maybe there was a player at the table who already complained earlier in the day, I have no idea...but there were four other players at the table at the time I got there. In any event, I don't believe that they (or anyone else anywhere) had asked me to start betting to get the dice next previously, and I pretty habitually try to get to the shooter's immediate left so as to shoot sooner.

A standard rule at any craps table I have ever played at is you are not entitled to throw the dice if you haven't place a bet at the table yet.

Quote: GWAE

I have not been to the buffet in about 3 years but I used to really enjoy it. One thing a lot of people don't know is that the pasta station will also make quesadillas. I am surprised you didn't have any coupons for the buffet. I haven't been there in 3 years and I still get a BOGO in the mail each month.

I believe I may be too local. I just get my Free Play stuff (and not as much as other people with same points earned in the period get) and that's about it.

What they don't know is I play very little money at -ER, but what they do know is that I am a local, it is the closest casino to me, and I'm going to be going (at some point) regardless of what they offer me. They're smart like that. They've come dangerously close to seriously pissing me off more than once and me never coming back, but they've never crossed that line just yet.

Quote: kenarman

A standard rule at any craps table I have ever played at is you are not entitled to throw the dice if you haven't place a bet at the table yet.

I've never seen the Rule previously enforced, but was aware that such a Rule theoretically could exist, so I shut my mouth and Placed the Six. A bit more -EV and higher Expected Loss than the PL, but I wanted the dice, that's why I picked that spot, so what can you do?

Quote: Mission146

I've never seen the Rule previously enforced, but was aware that such a Rule theoretically could exist, so I shut my mouth and Placed the Six. A bit more -EV and higher Expected Loss than the PL, but I wanted the dice, that's why I picked that spot, so what can you do?

Interesting on the enforcement. I have never seen it not enforced, the dice are never even offered to the new player if he was next to the previous shooter.

I don't know, OdiousGambit plays some dice and doesn't seem to have seen the Rule enforced at all or was aware of it, could make an interesting poll question if you care to start the thread. I would do it, but I have to post the WoV Playoff Picks after I compile them and then I have family coming for an early dinner, so no time, at the moment. I apologize.

I see that rule enforced all the time. I've even seen the case where a player will no bet around the table waiting for his/her turn again and will be passed up even then. A common rule of thumb you'll see many people suggest is to place at least one bet on the shooter immediately before you.

Just curious if points are still $5 coin-in there?

Correct.

Quote: kenarman

A standard rule at any craps table I have ever played at is you are not entitled to throw the dice if you haven't place a bet at the table yet.

I agree with kenarman. It is not an universal rule, but it is a rule in many casinos I have played in.

I have been on the table of 2, with the other guy shooting, and a player steps in between us. The stick informs him that the dice will be passing to me next. When the table is that small, I will usually tell the stick I don't care if he wants to shoot, and most of the time, neither does the shooter. The crew is very happy to give the dice to the new player.

The casino seems to have the rule as a courtesy to the person who 'thought' they were going to be the next shooter.