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arcticfun
arcticfun
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October 15th, 2013 at 11:17:29 AM permalink
Any cash transaction (or aggregate of cash transactions over a 24h period) exceeding $10k must be accompanied with a cash transaction report. This is the case for casinos as well as banks and other institutions. Has anyone had any experience with this? What information do they need, and how does it haunt you later on in life (tax season?) Based on what I read online, they need a social sec number and an ID. What if you're a foreigner and don't have a SSN? or, what if you're unable to supply your SSN for whatever reason?
coilman
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October 15th, 2013 at 11:30:47 AM permalink
Likely ask for your drivers license ( passport and maybe your country SSN) I know my recent filing for a ITIN with the IRS required all of the above
MathExtremist
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October 15th, 2013 at 11:35:50 AM permalink
It has nothing to do with taxes. The CTR and SAR forms are FinCEN requirements, not IRS (two separate bureaus under Treasury).

I've never caused anyone to fill out a CTR because I've never handled that much cash at once, but I did sit on a grand jury where several folks were indicted on structuring charges. You don't want to get caught structuring.

And you don't need an SSN, you just need an approved form of identification. Obviously you won't necessarily have an SSN if you're not a US citizen. See 31 CFR 1010.312:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title31-vol3/pdf/CFR-2011-title31-vol3-sec1010-312.pdf
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ibeatyouraces
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October 15th, 2013 at 11:36:20 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
DJTeddyBear
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October 15th, 2013 at 12:05:05 PM permalink
If the tax issue isn't your reason for concern, then just ask for a check. Then you won't need the CTR (although I have no idea what ID they want with a check payout...)
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
arcticfun
arcticfun
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October 15th, 2013 at 12:10:06 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

If the tax issue isn't your reason for concern, then just ask for a check. Then you won't need the CTR (although I have no idea what ID they want with a check payout...)



This is not true - the rule applies to cash and cash equivalents like checks.
MathExtremist
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October 15th, 2013 at 1:49:15 PM permalink
Quote: arcticfun

This is not true - the rule applies to cash and cash equivalents like checks.


Depositing a check in excess of $10k does not trigger a CTR. Unlike cash amounts in excess of 10k, I deal with large checks all the time. The C in CTR stands for "currency." Checks are not currency.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Buzzard
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October 15th, 2013 at 1:58:27 PM permalink
CURRENCY : Used in this context, currency means the coin and/or paper money of any country that is designated as legal tender by the country of issuance. Currency also includes U.S. silver certificates, U.S. notes, Federal Reserve notes, and official foreign bank notes.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
DJTeddyBear
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October 15th, 2013 at 4:40:33 PM permalink
I don't think checks are legal tender under that definition.

They are NOT issued by the government. They are almost universally HONORED, but they're not currency, and do not fall under the CTR requirement. In my job, I handle checks in excess of $50K regularly. No CTR required.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Alan
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October 15th, 2013 at 5:03:39 PM permalink
I have no knowledge, but I think a check is kind of like an IOU, but payable on demand.
Buzzard
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October 15th, 2013 at 5:36:43 PM permalink
Quite a few people fell for that old trick of sending a bill collector checks made out for future dates.

Woke up to drained bank account and overdraft charges. Payable on Demand is right.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
RaleighCraps
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October 16th, 2013 at 9:47:14 AM permalink
The CTR is a vehicle to create some sort of paper trail for large currency transactions, something that otherwise would have no history.

A check transaction, has a built in history associated with it, so no need for a CTR.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
arcticfun
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Prioned
October 16th, 2013 at 9:53:55 AM permalink
OK, thanks for correcting me on CTRs with checks. But ultimately, if you ask the casino for a check after giving them 10k or more in chips, they probably fill one out, right?

Based on other responses, it sounds like CTRs are a lot less scary than some people make them sound. What I want to avoid is increasing the chances of a tax audit (don't worry - I file my w2g's, and keep a gambling record/diary) just because I cashed in big.
rob45
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October 16th, 2013 at 10:05:05 AM permalink
Quote: arcticfun

Based on other responses, it sounds like CTRs are a lot less scary than some people make them sound. What I want to avoid is increasing the chances of a tax audit (don't worry - I file my w2g's, and keep a gambling record/diary) just because I cashed in big.


Hard to say if it increases any chance of an audit. It's not "supposed" to.
As has already been mentioned, the CTR is for FinCEN, not the IRS.
1BB
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October 16th, 2013 at 10:07:32 AM permalink
As soon as you reached the 10k threshold buying chips a report would be generated. It might not be at exactly 10k if you play several tables but it will happen. Don't you dare table hop to try to avoid it because you may very well regret it.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Ibeatyouraces
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October 16th, 2013 at 10:11:49 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
DJTeddyBear
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October 16th, 2013 at 10:15:44 AM permalink
Ditto. If you buy $10k in chips for cash, it'll trigger a CTR. If you structure it, they'll probably catch you, and then you get REAL troubles.

When you're done, regardless of how much you take to the cage, if you want a check, no CTR.

Similarly, buy in for any amount on a marker, no CTR.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Buzzard
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October 16th, 2013 at 11:11:31 AM permalink
Just because there is no CTR, trust me, the feds will still know in most cases.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
anonimuss
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ChumpChange
October 16th, 2013 at 5:55:00 PM permalink
Don't wish to be a nitpicker but technically you need to file a CTR at anything "over" 10K. Exactly $10,000.00 no CTR. $10,000.01, CTR.
ChumpChange
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November 25th, 2022 at 2:18:48 PM permalink
Thinking about getting checks for cash-outs of over $10K, and chips for buy-ins with checks over $10K. Maybe I can run up the value of these checks to $250K then make a bank deposit.

Will another casino cash a first casino's checks for chips? Seems it's a bit better to carry a check for a $50K chip buy-in than to carry cash.

I noticed my local craps table only had 50x $1,000 chips, so I may be breaking the bank at the tables. But they may have been $10K chips and I couldn't tell the difference from a distance. Not sure if the local craps table would let me walk out with $30K in chips just to let me come back the next day with them as a buy-in, but it would cut down on the check writing-cashing process.

Yellow chips, worth $1,000, are 澱ananas or 田anaries or 澱umblebees (some casinos use orange, they池e 菟umpkins) - They looked to be orange chips.
https://www.casino.org/vitalvegas/facts-about-casino-chips/

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From Quora:
Related
If you win a lot of chips at the casino, how do you get them all back to the cashier?
Originally Answered: If you win a lot of chips at the casino, how do you get them all back to the turn in station?

I work in a US tribal Casino (back of the house).

When someone wins big, casino workers will be there to assist you if needed. Unless you request your winnings be converted to a direct deposit or check payable to you, ask for an escort to your car or arrange for a cab to take you home. A team member from security will be able to stay with you until you are in your own car or in a cab leaving safely.

If you need assistance moving large amounts of chips to the Cage (cashier) to cash out, ask any of the team members on the floor for assistance. They will likely call security and ask a team member working security to assist you.

As others have stated, there are people who hang out at Casinos watching for big winners that they can rob after the winner leaves the casino. For this reason go with direct deposit to your bank account if that is an option or a check payable to you. Large amounts of cash are very attractive to muggers. This is what your escort from security is mainly protecting you from.

The safety of guests is a serious priority for any well run casino. Never hesitate to ask a team member for help if you have any problem or worries.

**************************************************************************
Can I cash a check at a casino?
Whether you don't want to carry money around or you're looking for some extra security, checks are still viable options. While casinos are known for cashing them, it's vital that you ring up and double check in advance, as some of them don't especially now that many casinos are moving towards cashless gaming.

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Related
Can casinos refuse to cash you out after a large win?
In the UK casinos are obliged to pay you out after any win.

Our casino wouldn稚 allow anyone to take more than £50,000 in cash. Our cash float would be around £250,000, so it would be a pain if multiple people wanted huge amounts of cash. Obviously, and this is a recurring trend in high-end UK casinos, these rules could become highly flexible for high level VIPs.

Along with cash, we could transfer funds back into your account, or write you what is known around London as a 層in cheque. These cheques are treated as currency around UK casinos.

However, in the exceedingly rare instance where we think something untoward may have occurred, we would apologise profusely and say we currently did not have any cash to pay you with. We would then offer you a cheque, which we could then stop if our doubts were proved to be right.

This tactic of a manager standing there stony faced and not relenting, but unfailingly polite, is our way of saying we think something痴 not right. Most of the time, the 疎ccused would understand they致e been rumbled and quietly depart. But, I致e seen or done this maybe three times.
**********************************************************
CAESARS SOUTHERN INDIANA - CHECK CASHING/ATMS
Policies and Procedures

- A maximum of up to $30,000 can be cashed within a 7 day gaming period for a $5 fee per transaction. Seven Star and Diamond guests will have the fee waived.

- All checks and photo IDs must be approved through the check cashing program.

- Only personal checks can be cashed; 3rd party, business, payroll or corporate checks will not be cashed.

- Checks are not accepted at the Hotel Front Desk for payment.

- ATM machines are located on the casino floor. Debit transactions will require a PIN, transaction fees may apply.
***************************************************************
From The Las Vegas Advisor:
What's the Check-Cashing Policy at Las Vegas Casinos?

Each casino cage has its own way of doing business and many factors are involved in trying to cash a check at a casino. The one thing they all agree on, however, is the check-cashing requirement of a valid photo ID and at least one credit card.
Since most properties only cash certain types of checks, you might not be able to cash all types everywhere, including payroll, personal, cashiers, or travelers checks. We didn't find any, for example, that accepted cashiers checks. Some properties won't allow you to cash a check there if you've cashed one somewhere else within an allotted period of time. Some cages insist that you have to be a guest and/or player at that specific property in order to cash a personal check, although this doesn't by any means apply universally.
If you're not a guest and/or a player, most casinos have their own check-cashing card you can get (but this may take up to 20 days to process), while others might charge a fee. The amount for which you're able to cash a personal check varies and depends on the check-guarantee system the casino uses and your credit rating. Since some of the casino cages use the same check-guarantee companies, you wouldn't be able to cash a personal check at one casino, then go to another casino and cash a personal check there if they use the same company.
In order to cash a payroll check, the company you work for and the bank they use have to be in that casino's system.
To be on the safe side, we recommend that you contact the property for confirmation before you rely on being able to cash a personal check anywhere.
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https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/sar_guidance_casino.pdf
Example 5, page 13:
On June 27, 2003, Jane Smith came up to the third main cage and cashed out $5000 in chips. She proceeded to hold purple chips (looked to be about $5200) stating that she was going to keep those chips until later. While waiting in line, Ms. Smith was talking to another customer about the CTR reporting process and basically telling him how to avoid a CTR. She was explaining how the cage, table games, and slots compare their amounts and fill out a CTR when someone gets $10,000. Ms. Smith told the other customer that痴 why she pulls some of her chips back so she will not have to pay taxes. She and the other gentleman walked out together. Ms. Smith has visited our casino over the last month, usually once a week. Her winnings were minimal until last week when on June 20, 2003 she cashed out $5000 in chips one day. She returned the following day and cashed out an additional $5000 in chips. We have maintained a copy of Ms. Smith痴 winnings over the last month and also a copy of her driver痴 license. Today, Ms. Smith was informed that she was barred from our casino
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Nov 25, 2022
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