dealer mistakes

When a dealer overpays you on a bet, what do you do?

This actually happened to me. I was the oldest of 4 growing up, and for each of our 21st birthday's my father took us to a 4 day weekend in Vegas (F-M). We were playing at the now defunct Showboat. I had 18, my father had 19, dealer has a 6 up, the undercard is an 8, and drew a 6 for 20. Apparently, she thought she busted, and paid us on our bets. We thought nothing of it. 15 minutes later 3 suits tapped us on the shoulder, and basically said if we don't pay what we were paid on that hand back, that we had to leave, so we did and went to Boulder Station.

my grammar is horrible ......from "alert dealer of his/her mistake....to, "alert dealer to his/her mistake

You need more choices. If I don't notice the mistake I do nothing. Last night I laid a ten for $36 and somehow the dealer had an extra six bucks in the pay. I didn't watch him but the stick man caught it.

I had a target I was trying to get to, and the extra $6 would have put me at my target.

When corrected by the stick man, the dealer joked that he was trying to get rid of me with the extra $6, and that now they would have to continue to put up with me being the PITA that I am (as described by Alan Mendelson).

I would have taken it because I did watch, and it looked like at least $54, but I had no idea he was giving me $60 instead. He knew what I was doing exactly though because he sees me play all the time.

After this happens, I brought up the conversation about the NFL player getting three felony charges for $15 worth of late bets. Then the phrase "plausible deniability" came up.

But I'm sure the dealer in question knew with absolute certainty that he would never admit to doing it on purpose. He said something about confusing it with pay on the nine (which would have been 24). So I guess I learned if you choose a multiple of $6 that's not also a multiple of ten dollars when laying a four or a ten, you might get a bonus from an absent minded dealer.

If he had accidentally given me $5 extra, he wouldn't be able to claim he was thinking it was a 9 and not a 10.

Human mistakes and unknowingly exploiting them is a fine art.

Quote: Ahigh

If I don't notice the mistake I do nothing.

Maybe you meant to word this differently... if you don't notice the mistake, what else could you do exactly?

Quote: dwheatley

Maybe you meant to word this differently... if you don't notice the mistake, what else could you do exactly?

TRY to notice the mistake if I suspect I am being overpaid. If I think, "I wonder if he paid me too much?" I choose not to worry about it. Sometimes it's possible he paid me too little, but it's a chance I feel is worth taking.

Quote: Gabes22

15 minutes later 3 suits tapped us on the shoulder, and basically said if we don't pay what we were paid on that hand back, that we had to leave, so we did and went to Boulder Station.

Talk about a crazy level of surveillance, us civilians have no idea...that the eye in the sky was engaged enough on the action to detect a dealer error.

Quote: treetopbuddy

When a dealer overpays you on a bet, what do you do?

Most people would do nothing, and take the money, knowing full well it was not legitimately earned by them by result of the cards. When a player takes an improper payout, knowingly or not, often the floor supervisor will come to the game after being alerted to it by surveillance ("the camera"), and ask the player to return a certain amount of ill gotten gains. The player may say one of three things:
1. You're right - I didn't win it, but "I wasn't sure." Here it is back.
2. I didn't know...but if you say so/if it was determined by the camera, then here it is back, or;
3. No! It's MINE, all MINE, and a dealer error MAKES it mine. You'll have to pry it from my dead, cold hands! [No, a dealer error does not make it yours.]

When I play at a table, I expect clean play, where money won is based on the actual result of the cards, not on a mistake.

Two nights ago, I played Pai Gow at Green Valley Ranch, and I had $50 bet. The dealer actually got a 6-high straight with a J-9 on top, but set it as a jack-high Pai Gow, and she went to pay me. I said "Oh no, you don't. I didn't win, - you have a straight." She re-set her hand, and pushed my hand. She thanked me, because she said that DAMN FEW players would have said anything, and just taken the money.

I said, "I know. I dealt for years."

I should point out that if it's obvious that I'm being overpaid, I do correct the dealer every single time.

Last night is an example when I would have 100% unknowingly accepted over-payment because frankly I was too lazy to count the chips and it looked good enough to me.

Many players are not sharpies enough to realize that something is wrong.
Players may be confused or hesitant but often feel the dealer knows her job.

In fact, dealers are far more quick to take money back than civility should allow. Dealers often take the money back and then explain what was wrong. I've seen dice dealers reach into the rail but I've also seen players pick up a dealer payment in front of them and reposition it or simply "tap" it to let the Box know "something is amiss".

I'm so slow in math that I'm not inclined to return any payment.

Of course the dealer mistakes are biased to the house's benefit......that's been my experience anyway. Bad Karma to take money that wasn't won....

When you consider dealers not correcting player mistakes like putting $100 chip on the pass line after a four is already marked (yes I have seen this), it's all in the noise level anyway for most properties.

It's the locals places where the players are more knowledgeable about what the pays and rules are that players even have a chance to benefit from mistakes.

Most mistakes are ABSOLUTELY to the casino's advantage. And there is no law about making a stupid bet (player mistake!)

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Guy next to me got paid 20/1 on the blind bet on a 4 of a kind in UTH yesterday. I didn't say a word.

Quote: Ahigh

When you consider dealers not correcting player mistakes like putting $100 chip on the pass line after a four is already marked (yes I have seen this), it's all in the noise level anyway for most properties.

It's the locals places where the players are more knowledgeable about what the pays and rules are that players even have a chance to benefit from mistakes.

Most mistakes are ABSOLUTELY to the casino's advantage. And there is no law about making a stupid bet (player mistake!)

A bad bet like betting 1 to 1 on a 4 before a 7 isn't a mistake, it's just a bad bet. I've seen a player bet don't pass for the come out roll then switch to the pass line if the point is set at 6 or 8. Unreal.

A mistake of the kind we are talking about is a payment error. Money is owed and the wrong amount is paid. And I do find that most errors here are in the casino's favor in both craps and blackjack. Underpayments/pushes or taking money on a win is quite common. It's pretty rare to get paid when you should lose.

My rule is to correct every casino mistake made against my interest, ignore ones in my favor. I also don't say anything about other people at the table, unless I am actually friends with the dealer.

Quote: bbvk05

A bad bet like betting 1 to 1 on a 4 before a 7 isn't a mistake, it's just a bad bet. I've seen a player bet don't pass for the come out roll then switch to the pass line if the point is set at 6 or 8. Unreal.

A mistake of the kind we are talking about is a payment error. Money is owed and the wrong amount is paid. And I do find that most errors here are in the casino's favor in both craps and blackjack. Underpayments/pushes or taking money on a win is quite common. It's pretty rare to get paid when you should lose.

My rule is to correct every casino mistake made against my interest, ignore ones in my favor. I also don't say anything about other people at the table, unless I am actually friends with the dealer.

I fervently disagree!! A half inch of placement on $100 bet is a $33 mistake!!! Period!!!

A dealer could easily put a buy lammer on there, and them not doing the player a favor could also be called a mistake!!!

Just a matter of perspective. But there's real value in that missing 33.33%

There is a big difference between doing something unknowingly silly, - and doing something knowingly crooked.

Quote: Paigowdan

There is a big difference between doing something unknowingly silly, - and doing something knowingly crooked.

I'm just saying I think it's as much of a crime for casino to book a put bet as it is for a player to try to late bet the don't with the same four point marked.

JMO. It's just one's illegal and one's not.

I am 100% certain I have missed some mistakes and/or there have been those times when I thought to myself "what just happened?" when a bet was either up or down that I didn't remember being that way. Since I miss a roll every once in a while paying attention to everything else, I don't consider those as anything bad because the chances are better that I just wasn't paying attention rather than someone doing something wrong.

If I see an obvious mistake, I will leave my chips on the table to give them time to reconsider. If they look it over and say it is right, I pick it up unless I am certain it is wrong. I am not going to argue with them but I do make sure the box, stick, and base believe it is right. I just give it back if I am 100% it is wrong.

I do expect them to be better at the payouts than I am but I still try to keep a pretty good eye on them...

Quote: Ahigh

I fervently disagree!! A half inch of placement on $100 bet is a $33 mistake!!! Period!!!

A dealer could easily put a buy lammer on there, and them not doing the player a favor could also be called a mistake!!!

Just a matter of perspective. But there's real value in that missing 33.33%

Putting money on any casino table is an error then. Should the casino watch you put your $5 on the passline and politely inform you that you are making a mistake? There's real value in not betting at all.

Making a bad bet isn't a mistake. Giving the wrong amount when someone is owed something is a mistake.

Quote: bbvk05

Making a bad bet isn't a mistake. Giving the wrong amount when someone is owed something is a mistake.

Why don't you ask the Wizard what he thinks about these two points? I'm very curious how he would respond.

Quote: Ahigh

Why don't you ask the Wizard

There has been at least one similar thread to this, and I believe the Wizard weighed in on it.

In an ask-the-Wizard he has posted this:

Quote:

This is a delicate question. Personally I just keep my mouth shut. Once in Atlantic City I saw another player correct the dealer for an overpayment and neither the dealer nor pit boss thanked the player for his honesty. If the casino doesn’t seem to care then why should I? I also view making the correct payment as part of a game. Also, no I do not tip. Sometimes crooked dealers will deliberately overpay players hoping to get tipped in return. This is highly illegal and at least in Nevada they treat cheating as a comparable crime to bank robbery. So I wouldn’t want anyone, including the dealer, to think I was colluding on a mistake-for-tip scheme. Another reason to not say anything is that the dealer will have to call the pit boss over and confess his mistake. Anyone can make a mistake once in a while but if the dealer is known to be mistake prone already then, yes, it could put his job in jeopardy.
When a mistake is in the favor of the house you definitely should alert the dealer as soon as possible. Don’t make a deal about it, just politely point out the error.
It is very embarrassing to challenge the dealer, only for the cards to show the dealer was right. When this happens an apology is sufficient.

https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/dealers/ [about half-way down the page]

I inform the dealers--often quietly and always politely--when there is a mistake on my bet. Whether it is in my favor or not. Some of these mistakes have been huge.

I have seen many, many mistakes by dealers at the craps table over the years but I have never seen a supervisor come to the table after apparently being alerted by surveillance to ask for the money back from a player. Never.

I primarily play the don't side at craps and I typically stand immediately next to the dealer where it is easier to place my bets. I put out a lot of bets and take various odds depending on what transpires. It sometimes happen that I get a dealer who is not experienced in handling a don't player and that leads to delays (while they figure out the payoff) and also mistakes. It does not bother me. I let them know even when the box or stick (one of whom is to double-check the payout depending on which direction the dice is being thrown) fails to also catch the mistake. The mistake may go either way. I don't take offense if I catch where they failed to pay me enough and I don't expect the dealer to take offense when I point out the over-payment. Though dealers are not supposed to make mistakes--they are still human.

I sometimes joke when I refuse an over-payment that it is karma--but invariably I lose on the next shooter after my honesty so I don't know if that is it. I often play at the same local casinos where I am known by the dealers and pit supervisors, and it is nice to have a reputation for honesty. But I have also pointed out mistakes in Las Vegas where I am obviously an unknown. It is just the right thing to do.

A reputation for honesty also goes a long way when there is a question about my play or payoff. They don't argue with me. Keep in mind also, the dealers' actions are reviewed in random checks of the surveillance tapes and they suffer the consequences when it is later discovered as part of their performance reviews when mistakes like this occur. Correcting a dealer helps them out too.

I have a different feeling about whether to point out mistakes by dealers on other players. Naturally, if I see where a dealer under-pays a player, I will quickly point that out so that the other player is paid properly. But if a dealer over-pays another player, then I believe it is not for me to say anything. Besides, as a don't player, I am not looked on favorably by most of the other players as it is, and I sure don't need more hatred directed in my direction. I do not view this as a double-standard. I simply do not feel it is my place to look out for the casino when they over-pay another player. It is between that player and the casino.

I'd be curious as to how many members on this forum do, if fact, point out when the dealer mistakenly over-pays another player.

As I indicated, some of the mistakes on my action have been big--since I buy-in for a lot and play with a lot. Almost all the mistakes involve incorrect payments on the bets during play, but a couple of other instances stand out.

Several years ago, I bought in for $4,000 and the box and the dealer put out $6,000 in chips to send my way--with the pit supervisor watching. I looked at the box and at the floorman and said two times--"Are you really going to give me those chips?"--and each time all 3 personnel pointed out that it was correct. I said a third time that they better be more careful and check it again when they finally caught their mistake. The box and floorman both knew me, and they must have thanked me 5 or 6 times. That is a mistake, if not caught until later, would have probably resulted in a suspension (at the least).

Another time at a different casino that I frequent, after cashing out at the cage and getting home, I discovered that I had $900 too much in cash. I am a careful player and I questioned in my own mind if I was overpaid, but as I reflected on the chips that I colored up for at the table, I assumed that maybe I was the one who was mistaken. Keep in mind, with the amount that I cashed out for at the cage--it seems like it was over $5,000--there was a "double" who checked the chips and the cash count when the cashier paid me. If I had caught the mistake at the cage, I would have pointed it out, but it got past me also. Well, the next day, I got a phone call at my home from the cage supervisor saying they had reviewed the tapes when the chips and cash did not balance and they discovered the mistake. (I am still baffled to this day how they got my home phone number since it is unlisted, and I did not think I had given them the number.) I immediately acknowledged that I didn't discover it until I got home and then I did not know if it was a mistake or not--but their phone call confirmed it. The casino caller was a little confrontational at first--maybe expecting an argument--but I was nice about it.

The thing about that bothered me was that when I readily said I would repay the over-payment when I was next at the casino, they wanted me to return it that day. I told them that I lived 2 hours away and it was not possible for me to drive 4 hours round-trip for simply this one purpose--even if I could get away, which I couldn't. They then offered me a free buffet if I did drive back. (I guess they had no understanding of my comps based on my play and how this meant nothing to me--besides the gas alone being several times the value of that buffet which I would not use anyway.) I said I would remember to return the over-payment on my next trip which probably would be within a couple of weeks, and if that was not good enough, then they could send a courier to my home to pick up the money. They decided to wait on me.

Sorry for the long post, but there is another instance that stands out. I bought in for $4,000 at Potawatomi Casino in Milwaukee (it was my first visit there) and after about 2 hours, colored up for $8,000 (exactly--since I always count my chips first before coloring up). The box counted it out, the floorman was there to supervise, and then the dealer who I stood next to--and to whom I tipped several hundred dollars in winning line bets--counted out 8 chips to me. The chips were dark blue and slightly larger. I did not look at the denomination on the chips, but I thought to myself that I guess they use a different color for $1,000 chips. I was used to "pumpkin" color. I got to the cage and the cashier counted out $4,000. I said that there were $8,000 in chips. She said the chips were $500 each. (I was used to purple for $500 chips and these were nothing like that.)

I said to keep the cash and give me back the chips--which I was thankful her supervisor permitted that, since most cashiers are not allowed to return chips or reverse the transaction after the chips are given to the cashier. I went back to the craps table immediately and the same personnel were there and I pointed out the error. I have no doubt if this would have been one of my regular casinos--again where I am known for honesty--they would have corrected it without delay. The personnel obviously remembered me and my play. But it took them 55 minutes to review the surveillance tapes and bring in two additional supervisors before it was corrected. All the while I did not make a scene. The one person I was most frustrated with was the dealer who had been handling my play--he of all people should have caught the mistake while handing me my chips. I heard some weeks later when I returned to Milwaukee that one person was fired over this and two other people were place on unpaid suspensions.

Quote: Jimbo

The one person I was most frustrated with was the dealer who had been handling my play--he of all people should have caught the mistake while handing me my chips. I heard some weeks later when I returned to Milwaukee that one person was fired over this and two other people were place on unpaid suspensions.

And if you had been intoxicated and not noticed the mistake...that shift would have all been patted on the back for having a "good" night...Believe me, the casino sure wouldn't call you and say "Sir, we're sorry, but we UNDER-payed you."
It's YOUR responsibility to make sure you didn't get shorted...
It's THERE responsibility to make sure you didn't get overed...

A good reason why I do not drink at the tables. There is plenty of time to drink after playing.

I don't know if the dealers would actually pat themselves on the back if/when they get away with a mistake in their favor, but I absolutely agree that it is the player who has the primary responsibility to watch his/her own bets. The dealers should--but it still is the player's money, not the dealer's. Particularly at the craps table when it is busy and there is a lot of action--a player should know where his bets are and the player should know what the correct payoff is.

It amazes me how little some players know about their own bets at a craps table.

Quote: TIMSPEED

And if you had been intoxicated and not noticed the mistake...that shift would have all been patted on the back for having a "good" night...

Casinos, while concerned about profit and loss as would any business, do not rejoice, or carry out back-slapping or back-patting over any business error spotted, - and to the contrary of what the downtrodden masses believe.

Quote: TIMSPEED

Believe me, the casino sure wouldn't call you and say "Sir, we're sorry, but we UNDER-payed [sic: paid] you."

They may indeed call you and say: "Sir, we're sorry, but we under-paid you," and they have done so for the benefit of their customers on many occasions. I have witnessed this while working as a dealer for a casino operator in Las Vegas for many years.

Quote: TIMSPEED

It's YOUR responsibility to make sure you didn't get shorted...

It is the responsibility of all aware and cognizant parties involved in a transaction to be observant of that transaction, if possible.
Some people make mistakes, and others may notice, and help correct errors in good faith. Doesn't matter in which direction the error occurs. An error is an error to be corrected.

Quote: TIMSPEED

It's THERE [sic: "their"] responsibility to make sure you didn't get overed...

It is the responsibility of all aware and cognizant parties involved in a transaction to be observant of that transaction, if possible.
Some people make mistakes, and others may notice, and help correct errors in good faith. Doesn't matter in which direction the error occurs. An error is an error to be corrected.

I agree with Paigowdan. Dealers do not rejoice in getting away with mistakes in the casino's favor and many times the casino has informed a player well after the bet was paid that a mistake was made and the player is due more money.

My experience with the casino crew--including the floor personnel and the shift managers and the table games supervisor--is that in most instances it is not an adversarial relationship. The casinos want the players to have a good time and they know some there will be winners and losers. I think they are more interested in the "action" as opposed to what your net is on any one occasion. They want you returning for the long term. With the house advantage, they do not need to purposefully underpay you to make a profit at the end of the day.

As for craps, there are typically several people who are supposed to be "aware and cognizant" in each transaction. According to protocol and proper dealing (with 2 dealers and a stick and the box), there are at least two-sets of eyes on everything. From the handling and throw of the dice to every payoff and when buying in and when coloring up. This is in addition to the eye in the sky and the occasional observance by the pit. That is why mistakes are not common, and when they do inevitably occur, they are corrected on the spot.

Haha, I just play table games in the wrong joint...

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Look if you take money you know you didn't win, it's stealing...simple. You'd be pissed if the casino raked in a bet you had won, so why would you do the same to the casino. Sometimes however there is grey area.

Example: Playing in AC recently at 3rd base...with a bunch of drunk college students (is there any other kind?) and a woman who doesn't appear to speak English. The players and the dealer have had to help her several times within the last few minutes. She gets a pair of aces against a dealer 8 and splits them. Catches a nine on the first one and stays; the other she pulls an ace and tries to re-split them. Against AC rules everywhere. The dealer(who is a veteran), to my shock, starts to let her. I yelled out "you can't re-split aces" to the annoyance of the whole table. The game grinds to a halt... The dealer has to ask the pit...who looks at her likes she is crazy and tells her of course you can't re-split aces. She doesn't. The woman is confused and has to stand on her 12...(i had 20 so I stay)..the dealer flips over a 3 for 11 then pulls a 10 for 21 and the whole table loses. Needless to say they were pissed at me. Hell, I was a little pissed at me.

FYI, the next two cards were a 5 and a 10.. So if I let the player re-split aces..we all win.

So long story short...is it my job to watch and make sure the casino is following it's own rules? The player in question wasn't trying to cheat. I doubt very much she could read the rules sign on the table. I have no doubt I did the "right" thing. But I cost everyone at the table (including me) money. Neither the pit or the dealer said thanks btw.

Quote: vendman1

Look if you take money you know you didn't win, it's stealing...simple. You'd be pissed if the casino raked in a bet you had won, so why would you do the same to the casino. Sometimes however there is grey area.

Example: Playing in AC recently at 3rd base...with a bunch of drunk college students (is there any other kind?) and a woman who doesn't appear to speak English. The players and the dealer have had to help her several times within the last few minutes. She gets a pair of aces against a dealer 8 and splits them. Catches a nine on the first one and stays; the other she pulls an ace and tries to re-split them. Against AC rules everywhere. The dealer(who is a veteran), to my shock, starts to let her. I yelled out "you can't re-split aces" to the annoyance of the whole table. The game grinds to a halt... The dealer has to ask the pit...who looks at her likes she is crazy and tells her of course you can't re-split aces. She doesn't. The woman is confused and has to stand on her 12...(i had 20 so I stay)..the dealer flips over a 3 for 11 then pulls a 10 for 21 and the whole table loses. Needless to say they were pissed at me. Hell, I was a little pissed at me.

FYI, the next two cards were a 5 and a 10.. So if I let the player re-split aces..we all win.

So long story short...is it my job to watch and make sure the casino is following it's own rules? The player in question wasn't trying to cheat. I doubt very much she could read the rules sign on the table. I have no doubt I did the "right" thing. But I cost everyone at the table (including me) money. Neither the pit or the dealer said thanks btw.

I mind my beeswax when it comes to other players' hands however there are exceptions. If the shoe is positive and especially if it's nearing the end, I've been known to point out an error such as re-splitting aces. It could mean another round dealt before the shuffle.

If I have a poor hand I dummy up and then say something after the mistake. This usually results in being allowed to get out of the hand.

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Quote: Jimbo

My experience with the casino crew--including the floor personnel and the shift managers and the table games supervisor--is that in most instances it is not an adversarial relationship. The casinos want the players to have a good time and they know some there will be winners and losers. I think they are more interested in the "action" as opposed to what your net is on any one occasion. They want you returning for the long term. With the house advantage, they do not need to purposefully underpay you to make a profit at the end of the day.

Amen. This is the heart of the issue. Gaming is not an adversarial issue to dealers and casino managers where the customers are “the enemy” or “the dark side.” Normal players are welcome as valid customers who support your business who shouldn’t be cheated, just as we shouldn’t be cheated. Now, how do restaurateurs feel about their good customers? Very fine and good. How do movie houses feel about their good customers? Very Fine and good. How to casino operators feel about their good customers? Believe it or not, also very fine and good about them, and are simply not interested in butchering loyal patrons the way some here think in their minds. Some players ARE undesirables and paranoid cheats, and are just miserable to have around. Most players are functional and middle class people who enjoy playing some cards after a dinner and a movie with the spouse, and couldn’t care less about learning the latest minutia of the most advanced AP to be used against the dark sider enemy.

The whole forum general attitude of “those no good casino worker dirty rats are just trying to bamboozle you, I tell ya! It’s a conspiracy, those evil, no good, money-grubbing DARK SIDERS…” - while at the same time saying ourselves, “But it’s sooo good to take some dirty money that you KNOW darn well you didn’t win or deserve, because that means we’re the CLEAN GUYS by doing this! – clearly we’re not the ones adversarial here !!”

Yeow…Right.

Quote: vendman1

So long story short...is it my job to watch and make sure the casino is following it's own rules? The player in question wasn't trying to cheat. I doubt very much she could read the rules sign on the table. I have no doubt I did the "right" thing. But I cost everyone at the table (including me) money. Neither the pit or the dealer said thanks btw.

The issue isn’t if it is your “job.”

It’s about having clean and correct play going down at a wagering table that you are on, with money on the line. This is where any money mistakes, dirty play, and failed procedures – at a table you’re on, we're talking – are somehow “okay” and justifiable in nature - so as long as if it's comin' MY way, baby! I don’t think so.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I think so.

I know this to be the case for many. So do casino operations people;

Keep in mind that there are certain players who casino operators feel need to be watched closely and hawked, and others who are "safe," or "safer."

Quote: Jimbo

It amazes me how little some players know about their own bets at a craps table.

I find that is true. Payouts are not known they are usually simply accepted.

On Monday, I was at the Luxor and the dealer short changed a player. She gave him 3 greens and got 13 reds back. I watched him make two stacks of 4 and the last stack of 5. Then he stacked them and pushed it to the player. I still can't wrap my mind around how he made different size stacks without knowing. Anyhow, I pointed it out and colored up after a few hands. The player thanked me and the dealer was even crabbier.

In three years dealing only ONE time has the floor come over to my table to reclaim money cause it was $150. I've made about a dozen mistakes that I think are generally ignored cause its only $5 or $10. A lot of these I've also caught myself but several hands later so I don't say anything.

I've also caught myself making a mistake in the houses favor like underpaying a weird blackjack, but I always make it right.

On another note I've heard I can lose my license if I don't correct an overpay if playing at another casino. That really hurts turning down a $70 hard ten payout...especially when I'm losing my ass......

mistakes are made every single day,
just tonight with two big bets up 1k and 1k in pai gow i had a pair of 10's wth ace king and on the other hand i had 2's with ace 9 dealer had 56789 joker and an 8 played the hand with 56789 and joke 8 in the top clearly it was a staright with a pair of 88's there was not chance i was saying anything I mean come on dan I like you mistakes are mistakes they happen sometimes i set my hand incorrect way , they dont correct it

I'll correct mistakes on my hand; the biggest was a dealer trying to give me $400 when I only won $300. Other folks have to watch their own hands. To that end, I don't pay attention so much, unless it's an underpay....

Everyone else can do whatever they want. I'm the one that has to live inside this skin, and that is how I choose to do it.

In my case it depends on whether I am the only one affected. If it's just me, I will usually point it out (if it does not disrupt the game too much - I'm not going to disrupt a busy craps table in the middle of a good roll, for example, unless the mistake is huge). If other players are affected too, I will usually go along with the consensus of the group (ignore it if it benefits us, point it out if it doesn't). I have pointed out things and found out that I was wrong too. In any case, I think that promoting good karma won't hurt in a game that requires some luck to win.

On the other hand, I wonder how I would react to a floorman coming to collect an overpayment that I had not noticed - I would wonder if they were full of s..t or not. Seems like the casino should let it go unless it was obvious that the player realized it, especially if it were a relatively small amount - or if the player ended up losing it back or something.

At one casino I go to, mispays are somewhat common and more than once I have wondered if they are checking to see if I am a "shot taker" or something. For example, they accidently gave me a $25 dollar chip in a stack of $5 chips (probably during my inital buy in) and I didn't point it out because I didn't notice it for a few rounds - I ended up losing big time (just like flushing it down the toilet, it seemed at the time). A couple weeks later, when it happened again (I did notice it immediately), I did point it out and felt better about it too - took me a while longer to lose all my money that time. :)

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Wrong. The dealer still makes 21. If she resplits, she pulls the 10 then the 5. After that, the dealer pull the other 10 for 21.

Ohh yeah you are right...I was thinking she'd only get one card on the ace...but since they were letting her resplit who knows....either way it was screwed up.

You show me a crap dealer that doesn't make mistakes and I'll show you a dealer that isn't moving very many chips around.

That's for sure. Many games are slow and relaxed because the table never gets crowded or jammed up in any way. Even a trainee dealer can handle it and after a while an 'experienced' dealer will be fine because although its the deep end of the pool its not under any great pressure.

Floormen and surveillance know errors will be made. Incorrect payoffs, incorrect recipients, mis-positioned chips...mainly surveillance watches "color" and particularly the prop bet payoffs.

Sometimes the whole crew will miss a mistake being made. It happens. Usually everyone is properly watching everyone else and double checking the amounts to be paid off, but sometimes things get really jammed up.

The house rarely fires dealers for making mistakes ... verbal warnings and write ups usually suffice. Mistakes are a factor in almost any game. Dealers are human, get distracted, tired, bored. Rotation is not just to avoid collusion its to keep the situation "fresh" in the mind. New table, new players and a BJ dealer is less likely to be bored.

Even on a craps table where dealers rotate there is variety and a twenty minute break after being stick. Its good to remember that players are human and so are the dealers. Not always angels and not always thieves, sometimes just tired, bored and distracted.

i do what the dealer does, act like i didnt know i was overpaid and continue betting.

I was playing roulette once and it was super late and i was the only one at the table. i had like $50 in $1 chips and placed them all over the board and left like $20-$25 on black, it hit red 32 which i had like a corner of it, she cleared all the bets but the corner bet and gave me $8, i was waiting for here to take my $20-$25 off black and she never did. I paused for a second, waiting...there was a slight akwardness i felt, but decided fuck it and grabbed the money off black and just started betting it all back out on the numbers. Think i ended up hitting a number next roll and quickly was up past my original buy in. I gave her like $5-6 in chips and walked away. nothing was ever said.

I play poker a ton and have had the dealers, when cashing out at the cage, overpay me multiple times. I always just act like i have no idea what has happened and just carry on. Obviously if they ever tried to underpay - I catch it and get right amount.

I'm not trying to go all message board police on you but, if you take that money and leave the cage the casino can still ask for it back. When I was a cashier at harrahs someone asked me for change once with a $20. Somehow thought it was a $100 so I gave them back 5 $20's. I soon realized the error. I confirmed with surveillance what had happened and a casino supervisor found the guy and asked for the money back. He said he spent it. The supervisor explained he could go to the ATM and get the money or he would call police. I'm serious. Another cashier overpaid a player by 2,000 another time. She counted the chips wrong and didn't get her count checked. When she was $2k short in her drawer the tapes were reviewed. Security literally went to the players room to get the money back.

I've also been on the other end. I had a dealer at casino royale pay me out twice playing bj switch when the dealer had 22. It should be a push. The dealer almost did a 3rd time but the pit boss stopped him and corrected it. The boss had to have known about the previous errors because I'm certain surveillance called him to tell him about the 3rd time when he walked over as the dealer was in the process of paying out incorrectly. Casino Royale did not ask the players to pay back the overpayment which I was actually pretty surprised.

So the next time you get overpaid, think twice about it. I probably would not be a good idea to accept an incorrect payout if you're staying at the property or want to continue gambling there

Often surveillance does not call immediately because that is what would alert the dealers and the floor as to where surveillance was presently focused. All a dealer would have to do is commit a fairly minor error and when the call came he would know to not move on to a major scheme. If the phone fails to ring after a minor error, the dealer should never start to feel safe from prying eyes.

This has happened to me multiple times while playing bj, and I've done both - pointed it out, and kept my mouth shut. Honestly it would depend on how I was feeling at that moment. I don't have any great moral dilemma about benefiting from their mistake. The same way it is on me to catch if I am underpaid. I'm sure it has happened a couple of times over the years.

I also think that a bj dealer would probably prefer you just let it be. Their compensation package doesn't include profit sharing to my knowledge. They just want to come into work, do their job, and go home with minimal aggravation. Having someone point out an error to their boss is going to make their day worse, as opposed to them being happy about the extra 25 bucks being raked in.

Was trying to find one of these threads...anyways, I got incorrectly paid $100 for a full house in Texas Hold 'Em Bonus. I was playing the progressive bet (which I don't think is covered on Wizard of Odds actually). Basically, you get a bonus if you flop a flush or better. I made a full house on the turn, which shouldn't have netted me the bonus, but the dealer gave it too me anyways. Never got "caught", so either the eye in the sky wasn't paying attention, or they didn't know the rules either. Later on, the same dealer flashed a player next to me a sneak peek at the river, so I guess he was just one of "those" dealers.

The only time I was asked to repay an incorrect payout was at THB (at a different casino though). There's a lot of misread boards in this game, and I got $50 when I was actually beat (or pushed, can't quite remember). A good 10-15 minutes later, someone from the back came to me at the table and told me the error and asked for the money back. I didn't make a fuss; I knew I was wrongly paid. I generally fall into the camp that it's the onus on the casino to fix their mistakes.

I should also mention that tonight, a lady got screwed out of $125 in blackjack. She was playing the perfect pairs side bet, when the dealer skipped over a player while dealing out the second cards. If he had dealt correctly, she would've had a perfect pair, 25-1 on her $5 bet. Pit boss came over, said they couldn't put the cards back where they should've been. I understand that the rules have to be adhered to, but that's a very tough pill to swallow when it's clear how the hand should've played out (it's not like a bunch of cards got mixed up or anything). The skipped player got a new card, but we all ended up bailing on the hand. But what do you know, the lady ended up getting (you guessed it!) a perfect pair on the very next hand. A hand I'm sure she wouldn't have had if the original perfect pair had gone through.

Quote: FourFiveFace

so I guess he was just one of "those" dealers.

You mean one seeking tips in a more explicit manner than most?

Many times The Eye in the Sky will be watching but will keep silent so as not to reveal itself and to see what else happens after the detection of relatively minor errors. The Surveillance Dept. wants to build a file on dealers, not just run out and get a modest sum back from the player. Chasing down minor sums can mean that dealers are alerted to being watched and a minor error is all that happens that night. Even if surveillance does call, there is often an attitude of "lets watch this guy for awhile anyway". See if he repeats his errors or he even gets worse. Maybe its not collusion at all, its just a dealer who does not listen. They will want him on film for awhile anyway.