AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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July 1st, 2012 at 9:06:38 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Yeah, just because it works well for every other first world country on the planet doesn't mean we should consider it. It definitely doesn't mean that:)



Like your mother used to say, if everybody else was jumping off a bridge would you do as well?

How on earth would such a thing be paid for? Seriously?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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July 1st, 2012 at 9:15:38 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

The days of one parent working are over unfortunately.



Yes, the days of one parent working are over. So are the days where/of/when:


-You had just 1-2 TV sets in the house and 6 channels, even with basic cable
-eating out 1-2 times a month instead of 2-3 times a week, and this includes takeout
-the kids playing pick-up soprts in the neighborhood instead of organized leagues and play-dates
-owning 1 car, used and if you had a second car at all it was one-wheel in the junkyard used just for dad to go to work
-the house being 1,000-1,200 square feet and at most 2 baths, kids sharing rooms
-if you went more than one state away for vacation you were "rich"
-not having central air
-a 3 foot wide closet being enough to hold your clothes
-the kids having a paper route or doing other jobs instead of just getting an allowence

and on, and on, and on. People could probably make it on one paycheck, but they want to live well.

BTW: the US Government is encouraging kids via tax policy. It is working well, our replacement birth rate is near right-on the 2.1 per woman needed to maintain population.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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July 1st, 2012 at 9:20:48 AM permalink
AZ, It's an interesting question. Are we better off than we were 50 years ago? Definitely arguments on both sides.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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July 1st, 2012 at 10:13:45 AM permalink
I believe in Scandinavian countries the expected duration is six years and it is on full salary. Scandinavian countries tend not to want the germ factories that are kindergartens and that spread germs throughout the entire society.

In the USA there are social and economic pressures and all these tax-break receiving entities that give "pre-school" to toddlers for free, so the mother can look for work. Such PreSchools and DayCare facilities charge outrageous rates, pay virtually nothing and pretty much do nothing but store the kid. Many working women in the USA have little left over after paying for Day Care.

Women on various forms of welfare often have to stay on welfare so as to be able to afford housing and day care.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
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July 1st, 2012 at 10:23:03 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Great, stay where you are, we don't want you here. We
already have enough foreigners.



What a terrible thing to think. How many foreigners is too many there Bob?
Vote for Nobody 2020!
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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July 1st, 2012 at 10:29:55 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

the US Government is encouraging kids via tax policy. It is working well, our replacement birth rate is near right-on the 2.1 per woman needed to maintain population.

Got to keep those welfare rolls and prison cells filled. Got to save SOME workers who will pay off their parent's social security checks.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
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July 1st, 2012 at 10:32:31 AM permalink
Quote: P90

Cleaner air and water, less land lost to landfills, homes getting cheaper like computers, steady oil prices (and without accelerating global warming), enough resources to go around?

Well, okay. Realistically, it just means foreign nations grow in size faster, so increased immigration.
But hey - we can't choose how our kids are born (smart, dumb, healthy, sick, eager, lazy, gay, straight), but we can choose who immigrates. That is if we open the gates a little and take, let's say, 10% rather than 0.1% of those who want in.



Water is as clean now as it has ever been in the past 1000 years at least (remember, people used to dump poop right into the river), and man has never had access to so much clean drinking water as he does today. Even a king 500 years ago did not have Brita water filters. And the air is far cleaner. There are stories about women hanging up laundry to dry in the industrial revolution and it would turn black from the soot in the air just in th time it took to drive. Homes would get cheaper if the population shrunk, but only temporarily. Oil prices are driven by a number of factors but growth in population is not a major factor compared to inflation, taxes, political instability, regulations, etc. As far as "plenty of resources to go around" I am not sure I understand what you mean here. But it sounds like you think that there is a big pile of resources somewhere and if only we had fewer people grabbing at the pile there would be more for each of us. This ignores the fact that people not only consume, they also produce, so as you consumers you are also removing producers.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
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July 1st, 2012 at 1:55:55 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Even a king 500 years ago did not have Brita water filters.

So modern royalty drinks water out of Brita filters? What a bunch of fools. I don't drink filtered water, only particular brands of bottled spring water that I have picked out for best taste.

In medieval cities they wouldn't drink water, they would drink low-ABV beer and wine. But urbanization was low, most population lived in the country. I have no problems drinking well or spring water in the country, without boiling.

Quote: bigfoot66

And the air is far cleaner. There are stories about women hanging up laundry to dry in the industrial revolution and it would turn black from the soot in the air just in th time it took to drive.

Note how you had to pick industrial revolution - a bad version of today - for comparison, and use cities rather than villages (where the majority lived).

Now, I'm not part of the "let's climb back on the trees and smoke our joints till we fall down" crowd... just saying. And don't mix up technology and pop size, they aren't the same thing.

Quote: bigfoot66

Homes would get cheaper if the population shrunk, but only temporarily.

Permanently. Land value is the key factor in the cost of housing.

Quote: bigfoot66

Oil prices are driven by a number of factors but growth in population is not a major factor compared to inflation, taxes, political instability, regulations, etc.


It's not "a major factor", it's the dominant factor.
More people and a lot more cars every day, only so much domestic oil for everyone.

Gasoline retails at a pump in US for just 15% more than what the amount of oil it's made out of goes for at producer's port wholesale. It's sold closer to cost than any other product. All the taxes and regulations have to fit in that tiny margin.


Quote: bigfoot66

But it sounds like you think that there is a big pile of resources somewhere and if only we had fewer people grabbing at the pile there would be more for each of us. This ignores the fact that people not only consume, they also produce, so as you consumers you are also removing producers.


Produce what? Computers, cars, manhood enlargement pills. These are not resources, these are products.

With many (not all) resources, yeah, there is a big pile and a crowd of people grabbing at it. Like fish in the oceans - and catches are running low due to overfishing.
Most other resources are layered. There's some close to the surface, some that's harder to get, then it gets even more difficult. Not just oil, metals, everything. Fewer people on the planet will mean lower resource costs.

Now, there are potential advantages to having more people. It speeds our strive to fulfill our ambitions as a species... wait, what are our ambitions as a species? If it's a new jobsPhone and the latest episode of armenican idol, let me think -
- done - yeah, I could totally live with that delayed.
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rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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July 1st, 2012 at 2:00:26 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Like your mother used to say, if everybody else was jumping off a bridge would you do as well?

How on earth would such a thing be paid for? Seriously?



Every body else has figured it out. seriously.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Beardgoat
Beardgoat
Joined: Apr 2, 2012
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July 1st, 2012 at 2:30:39 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Oh, and the answer is 0. There is no paid maternity leave in the US. If you have been working somewhere for a year, and it's not a small business, your job will be held for 3 months. Of course, if a woman is put on bed rest before she delivers, then she is SOL.



This is not true. Maybe you meant no government paid maternity leave, but I get 12 paidweeks from my company and I am a male

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