ams288
ams288
Joined: Sep 26, 2012
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 5299
December 26th, 2015 at 11:29:06 AM permalink
Quote: RS

First of all, it does not matter, as any evidence I or others post will (most likely) be dismissed as either "far right wing conservative" source or "those people aren't part of BLM".

The many videos on YouTube of BLM protests/rallies.

HeySlick's "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelVrRyNCU0


BLM's support of Michael Brown [who attacked the police officer, Darren Wilson].

BLM's support of Trayvon Martin [who attacked George Zimmerman (not police)], a completely violent act.


One video showed people throwing a sign at a police man. Think it was posted in the thread, "Ferguson."

BLM chants/protests, involving something like "F*** the police".

The riots and violence in general, from looting, to burning down stores, setting cars [including police cars] on fire.


BLM and the left-wingers keep saying they were "peaceful" protests, but they couldn't be further from peaceful.



That's your evidence? Good to see you got nothing.
Lock him up!
HeySlick
HeySlick
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 277
December 26th, 2015 at 11:43:11 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Quote: RS

First of all, it does not matter, as any evidence I or others post will (most likely) be dismissed as either "far right wing conservative" source or "those people aren't part of BLM".

The many videos on YouTube of BLM protests/rallies.

HeySlick's "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelVrRyNCU0


BLM's support of Michael Brown [who attacked the police officer, Darren Wilson].

BLM's support of Trayvon Martin [who attacked George Zimmerman (not police)], a completely violent act.


One video showed people throwing a sign at a police man. Think it was posted in the thread, "Ferguson."

BLM chants/protests, involving something like "F*** the police".

The riots and violence in general, from looting, to burning down stores, setting cars [including police cars] on fire.


BLM and the left-wingers keep saying they were "peaceful" protests, but they couldn't be further from peaceful.



That's your evidence? Good to see you got nothing.




If those violent actions aren't enough evidence -- how many more communities have to be destroyed and, Police killed before you and others realize this BLM movement isn't as passive as you claim? IMO if they are truly non-violent and don't condone the actions of some within said movement -- prove it. I still believe/ feel that actions speak louder than words
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 4874
December 26th, 2015 at 11:53:35 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quoting the statements or actions of some BLM members does not mean that the entire group adopts that position. When you say "BLM's support of ..." can you show me in a statement of beliefs or something like that from the central organization that supports this? Perhaps they are against the police response to these individuals as opposed to being for the actions of the individuals themselves.

I'm sure I could easily cherry pick statements from Trump supporters to make them look like neo Nazis.



Actually, some members here clearly associate Donald Trump's campaign with those groups. The question that has been posed is that of the typical double standard existing--Trump's followers are demented; BLM's followers aren't associated with the group officially.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3415
December 26th, 2015 at 12:05:30 PM permalink
Quote: ams288

That's your evidence? Good to see you got nothing.

Maybe some people here do not have sufficient experience to be acquainted with how incendiary rhetoric can jazz up a seething crowd into a molten mob. I can assure you that it is not a pretty picture.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
December 26th, 2015 at 12:27:25 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This is a split-off from the 2016 Election thread.

Quote: RS

First of all, it does not matter, as any evidence I or others post will (most likely) be dismissed as either "far right wing conservative" source or "those people aren't part of BLM".

The many videos on YouTube of BLM protests/rallies.

HeySlick's "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelVrRyNCU0

BLM's support of Michael Brown [who attacked the police officer, Darren Wilson].

BLM's support of Trayvon Martin [who attacked George Zimmerman (not police)], a completely violent act.

One video showed people throwing a sign at a police man. Think it was posted in the thread, "Ferguson."

BLM chants/protests, involving something like "F*** the police".

The riots and violence in general, from looting, to burning down stores, setting cars [including police cars] on fire.

BLM and the left-wingers keep saying they were "peaceful" protests, but they couldn't be further from peaceful.



Quoting the statements or actions of some BLM members does not mean that the entire group adopts that position. When you say "BLM's support of ..." can you show me in a statement of beliefs or something like that from the central organization that supports this? Perhaps they are against the police response to these individuals as opposed to being for the actions of the individuals themselves.

I'm sure I could easily cherry pick statements from Trump supporters to make them look like neo Nazis.



Being against the police response (to Martin & Brown) is to say what they (Martin & Brown) did was/is acceptable. When put in a life or death situation, as both Zimmerman & Wilson were, there is no other option than to stop whoever is trying to kill you. Condoning the actions of one side is to support the actions of the other, and vice versa.

It is not black and white (pun intended). I doubt there are any official & specific "we support violence against police" from the official BLM group.

Why the group would align themselves behind Martin & Brown is ridiculous. It would be like Bob N. using a case where cheaters (not legal APs) were arrested and back-roomed to show how casinos mistreat legal APs. If that happened, would you think Bob N. supports cheating in a casino?
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1264
  • Posts: 20798
December 26th, 2015 at 1:16:44 PM permalink
Quote: RS

Being against the police response (to Martin & Brown) is to say what they (Martin & Brown) did was/is acceptable.



I get it. So, if a police officer shoots an unarmed person for stealing candy, and I oppose it for reasons for reasons of excessive force, it means I condone stealing candy.

Quote:

I doubt there are any official & specific "we support violence against police" from the official BLM group.



Then how do you know that the group as a whole advocates violence against police?

Quote:

Why the group would align themselves behind Martin & Brown is ridiculous. It would be like Bob N. using a case where cheaters (not legal APs) were arrested and back-roomed to show how casinos mistreat legal APs. If that happened, would you think Bob N. supports cheating in a casino?



I'm sure most members of BLM would claim that Martin & Brown were not perfect people but victims of racial profiling and excessive force.

Much like if some cheaters were beaten up old-school style by casino security, and Bob Nersesian defended them in a lawsuit, it wouldn't mean he condoned the cheating, but opposed the casino's response to it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
December 26th, 2015 at 1:41:50 PM permalink
No, since there are other (better) options than to shoot someone for stealing candy.

In both the situations (Martin & Brown), the other person's life was in severe jeapoardy. Shooting someone who is in the process of killing you (Martin/Zimmerman), or who is about to/trying to kill you (Brown/Wilson), there is very little that can be done, other than shooting the person who is about to kill you. There is no excessive force in either of these two situations.

From what I've seen, BLM paint the picture of Martin & Brown as being "innocent teenagers". Martin as a young boy, just wanting to enjoy some skittles & Arizona iced tea. Brown as as a child. So yes, they are trying to paint the picture that these two were "perfect", even though they aren't saying so directly.

I'm not sure how racial profiling would fit into either of these two cases, either.


I don't mean BLM as a whole supports violence, and if I said so, I misspoke. According to the BLM website, it is a "leaderfull" organization/movement, meaning there is no top dog / leader. (Kind of like the group Anonymous, there are no leaders, but groups of individuals.) At least that's how I interpreted it.

Regardless, it doesn't matter what is "officially written" or what-have-you. What matters is their actions and what they do and support. Actions speak louder than words, we all know this. We know the meaning behind what they are doing and what they're getting after.

How many times has 1BB hurled numerous insults after insults, only to end the post with "this is not aimed at any specific board member"? Just because someone says one thing, doesn't mean that is their true beliefs.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 89
  • Posts: 3814
December 26th, 2015 at 4:02:44 PM permalink
Quote: HeySlick

Instead of meaningless protests, why doesn't BLM actually do something to show that black lives do in fact matter? How about going into these hard-core, gang-infested cities and giving black youth something to do?

1 How about teaching black children the importance of getting an education?


I don't know how it works in other states, but in California, two things stand in the way of delivering quality education to predominantly black (and Hispanic, for that matter) schools; one, most of the money for pre-college education comes from the property taxes of the people living in the district, so the areas with less money end up with poorer schools (and it takes a 55% majority of the voters in that district to enact any additional taxes for the schools); two, you're not going to get the better teachers (which are needed to help dig the students out of the hole their environment has put them in) into these districts because if you even think of considering suggesting this, you'll not only end up with a strike, but you will be branded anti-union for doing so (and it almost goes without saying that the first condition for settling such a strike is, "The teachers have the right to strike again, immediately and without fear of any reprisals, if anyone who taught in the district during the strike (i.e. "strikebreakers") is ever given a job in this district again").
HeySlick
HeySlick
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 277
December 26th, 2015 at 4:22:16 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: HeySlick

Instead of meaningless protests, why doesn't BLM actually do something to show that black lives do in fact matter? How about going into these hard-core, gang-infested cities and giving black youth something to do?

1 How about teaching black children the importance of getting an education?


I don't know how it works in other states, but in California, two things stand in the way of delivering quality education to predominantly black (and Hispanic, for that matter) schools; one, most of the money for pre-college education comes from the property taxes of the people living in the district, so the areas with less money end up with poorer schools (and it takes a 55% majority of the voters in that district to enact any additional taxes for the schools); two, you're not going to get the better teachers (which are needed to help dig the students out of the hole their environment has put them in) into these districts because if you even think of considering suggesting this, you'll not only end up with a strike, but you will be branded anti-union for doing so (and it almost goes without saying that the first condition for settling such a strike is, "The teachers have the right to strike again, immediately and without fear of any reprisals, if anyone who taught in the district during the strike (i.e. "strikebreakers") is ever given a job in this district again").




Given that scenario it seems like there' isn't much hope for those living in that kind of environment ,yet others do find ways to succeed. IMO Maybe if those African American et al who did go on to successful careers e.g. professional sports and the entertainment field showed some real concern --- collectively they could solve a lot of these inner city problems. Looking up to the gangster life style and moral turpitude plagues many of the aforementioned trouble communities and, has so for decades upon decades.
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3415
December 26th, 2015 at 4:58:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I get it. So, if a police officer shoots an unarmed person for stealing candy, and I oppose it for reasons for reasons of excessive force, it means I condone stealing candy.

Nope. That's the party line, a stand that would have police officers not defend themselves when attacked. Aside from those two facts cherry picked from an intensive and thorough grand jury finding, much exculpatory evidence was presented, among which was that Wilson sensed that Brown was going for his weapon while Brown was attacking the officer, as CNN summarized:,
"Wilson said he feared Brown could beat him to death. Officer Wilson told the grand jury that Brown punched him in the face when the officer drove back to him. Wilson said he tried to get out of his cruiser but Brown slammed the door shut twice and hit him with his fist. "I felt that another of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse ... I've already taken two to the face and I didn't think I would, the third one could be fatal if he hit me right," Wilson said.

Twelve shots were fired by Wilson. Wilson said two shots were fired during a struggle at his police vehicle and that he then fired three bursts of gunfire as he chased and then backed away from Brown. He testified that his Sig Sauer .40 caliber gun held a maximum of 13 bullets. Twelve casings were recovered and one bullet remained in the weapon, according to the grand jury documents.

Wilson said Brown kept running through shots. Wilson testified he shot at Brown on the street when Brown turned on him. "As he is coming towards me, I tell, keep telling him to get on the ground, he doesn't. I shoot a series of shots. I don't know how many I shot, I just know I shot it," he said. "I know I missed a couple, I don't know how many, but I know I hit him at least once because I saw his body kind of jerk," he said. "At this point I start backpedaling and again, I tell him get on the ground, get on the ground, he doesn't. I shoot another round of shots," he said. "Again, I don't recall how many him every time. I know at least once because he flinched again. At this point it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him mad that I'm shooting at him. "And the face that he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even anything in his way."

He told the jurors he thought Brown was going to tackle him. "Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about that 8 to 10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot. "I don't know how many, I know at least once because I saw the last one go into him. And then when it went into him, the demeanor on his face went blank, the aggression was gone, it was gone, I mean, I knew he stopped, the threat was stopped. "When he fell, he fell on his face."

Wilson said Brown reached under his shirt."

  • Jump to: