reno
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April 7th, 2016 at 2:18:10 PM permalink
Apparently Wynn has plans to tear up part of the golf course behind his Strip property to make way for a new $1.6 billion resort with 1,000 rooms and a giant 38 acre lake surrounded by beaches and a mile long boardwalk. Paradise Park would offer 250,000 sq ft of convention/meeting space and the resort would feature water skiing with nightly fireworks. Construction could be begin this fall.

Good idea? Bad idea?

Wizard
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April 7th, 2016 at 2:41:45 PM permalink
I'll go with a hesitant good. I challenge any forum member in a swimming race to the island in the middle.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DRich
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April 7th, 2016 at 2:48:57 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll go with a hesitant good. I challenge any forum member in a swimming race to the island in the middle.



I love the idea. Anytime we get something new and novel I am happy.

I would bet that you could ride your unicycle to the island faster than I could swim to it.
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Dalex64
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April 7th, 2016 at 2:49:16 PM permalink
They will need an awful lot of water every day to make up for losses due to evaporation.

Really thirsty ducks:

Quote: http://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr/14/how-much-water-evaporates-bellagio-fountains/

The Bellagio’s 8.5-acre lake holds 22 million gallons and is replenished annually with another 12 million, representing the amount lost to evaporation, leaky pipes or really thirsty ducks.

JohnnyQ
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April 7th, 2016 at 3:32:37 PM permalink
“This is the most fun project in my 45 years,” Wynn told investors. “Somebody take the other side, tell me what’s wrong with this idea? We’ve all drunk the Kool-Aid.”

Well, potentially:

- There is an economic slowdown or recession just when it opens.

- Airfare prices go higher and travel to Vegas slows down.

- Other upscale projects actually come to fruition and create too much competition for that segment.

Or not.
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reno
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April 7th, 2016 at 4:19:57 PM permalink
Disney built a "lake" surrounded by a boardwalk in what used to be the parking lot of their Anaheim property. They named it Paradise Pier. Wynn is naming his Paradise Park. Coincidence?

ThatDonGuy
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April 7th, 2016 at 4:21:52 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll go with a hesitant good. I challenge any forum member in a swimming race to the island in the middle.


Does the challenge include paying the admission fee to the park?

At least one report says that you have to pay the fee just to enter the casino as well.
speedycrap
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April 7th, 2016 at 4:43:06 PM permalink
Paying to go to the beach for sure. Should included in the resort fee.
iamnomad
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April 7th, 2016 at 4:57:32 PM permalink
Almost 3 months ago to the day, Wynn disclosed that he had bought over $60 million worth of stock in WYNN at about $63 per share. He was telling you to buy with both hands. Price now is $99.

Over the long term, it has made sense to invest with Wynn. I wish I had been smart enough to recognize that fact during the Great Recession, when a share sold for about $25. We can bitch about how he runs his casinos, but like Hyman Roth, Steve Wynn always makes money for his partners, or in this case shareholders.
beachbumbabs
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April 7th, 2016 at 5:55:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll go with a hesitant good. I challenge any forum member in a swimming race to the island in the middle.



I accept your challenge. I respectfully expect to kick butt, but since we've never been swimming together, I could be wrong.

I have to wonder about the wisdom of a large, shallow lake like that, though. It's going to use a HUGE amount of water given the amount of surface evaporation to be expected in that climate. They're going to have to keep fresh water circulation coming in as well, as it can't be allowed to stagnate. And don't you already have a critical water shortage both short- and long-term there? The hotels are already rationing laundry water and asking people to take shorter showers; and he's going to introduce a huge lake? I can see the superficial attraction but not any responsible community planning. JMHO.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
reno
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April 7th, 2016 at 6:28:45 PM permalink
Las Vegas gets its water from Lake Mead. The lake's surface is 130 feet lower today than it was in February 2000. It's currently 38 percent full.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I can see the superficial attraction but not any responsible community planning.



It's Las Vegas. There's no such thing as "responsible community planning" in Las Vegas.
rxwine
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April 7th, 2016 at 7:11:49 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I have to wonder about the wisdom of a large, shallow lake like that, though. It's going to use a HUGE amount of water given the amount of surface evaporation to be expected in that climate.



Easypeezy. Just needs a giant dome.
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Ayecarumba
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April 7th, 2016 at 10:58:33 PM permalink
When first conceived, the lake in front of the Bellagio was supposed to be big enough to allow guests to rent motorboats and tool around. I don't know if the environmental concerns or economic pressures caused a downsizing to the present size, but I think it is a good thing for Wynn to get something to replace the hohum oversized birdbath at the Wynn Hotel.
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boymimbo
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April 7th, 2016 at 11:38:09 PM permalink
Let's think about the math a bit.

An acre is 43,560 square feet. 38 acres is 1,655,280 square feet. If you take the square root of this and divide by pi you get a radius of 726 feet. So for a circular lake the circumference would be 4,560 feet, close to a mile.

If we assume the average depth of the lake would be about 8 feet (probably a sloping depth from the beach in about 100 feet) and then the full depth of say 12-14 feet then you would have about 16,552,800 cubic feet of water or about 124 million gallons of water.

There is a study that says that for Las Vegas for each square foot of pool surface, 8.32 feet evaporates per year. So for the Wynn pool you would essentially replace 8.32 cubic feet of water for each square foot of water or 103 million gallons per year.

The average Las Vegas resident uses about 200 gallons per day using 2012 figures. So over a year 73,000 gallons. So the Wynn pool would be using up about the same water as an additional 1,411 residents, or about the same amount as the Paris hotel or Caesar's Palace, uses with its hotel guests.

Interesting read is available. Google "Water Use on the Las Vegas Strip".

So, the pool is not so bad. And given that a golf course (what is currently there) gets a budget 6.3 acre-feet of water per irrigated acre (source: Las Vegas Water District) replacing the golf course with a lake will only result in a slightly more deleterious effect. (the Wynn pool would use 8.32 acre-feet of water / acre). And Wynn will look for ways to be green.
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boymimbo
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April 7th, 2016 at 11:41:49 PM permalink
Quote: reno

Las Vegas gets its water from Lake Mead. The lake's surface is 130 feet lower today than it was in February 2000. It's currently 38 percent full.

It's Las Vegas. There's no such thing as "responsible community planning" in Las Vegas.



Actually, there is. The average water use for new homes in Vegas is 89,000 gallons a year which is down about 90% from older homes. This is because of outdoor landscaping and more efficient homes.

Per capita water use in Vegas has dropped from about 350 gallons a day in the early 80s to 200 gallons a day in 2012.

So it's getting better.
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FleaStiff
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April 8th, 2016 at 2:43:35 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll go with a hesitant good. I challenge any forum member in a swimming race to the island in the
middle.


You see, THAT is the trouble. You want to go to Paradise Park to swim, watch ducks, pickup broads, etc.

You didn't invite anyone to the craps tables or the slot machines or to the Keno Room, just to some cocktail bar on the fake island in the middle of a fake lake.

Dotty is polishing up those nick nacks, the various stations casinos are whisking the flies off yesterday's macaroni, and Wynn is playing with water toys instead of a pair of dice.
FleaStiff
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April 8th, 2016 at 4:23:25 AM permalink
Phoenix has these outdoor "trees" that are really water evaporators to humidify the air, perhaps this is a chamber of commerce ploy to increase the walkability of Las Vegas sidewalks on behalf of the 'poseurs".
AcesAndEights
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April 8th, 2016 at 5:01:21 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Let's think about the math a bit.

An acre is 43,560 square feet. 38 acres is 1,655,280 square feet. If you take the square root of this and divide by pi you get a radius of 726 feet. So for a circular lake the circumference would be 4,560 feet, close to a mile.

If we assume the average depth of the lake would be about 8 feet (probably a sloping depth from the beach in about 100 feet) and then the full depth of say 12-14 feet then you would have about 16,552,800 cubic feet of water or about 124 million gallons of water.

There is a study that says that for Las Vegas for each square foot of pool surface, 8.32 feet evaporates per year. So for the Wynn pool you would essentially replace 8.32 cubic feet of water for each square foot of water or 103 million gallons per year.

The average Las Vegas resident uses about 200 gallons per day using 2012 figures. So over a year 73,000 gallons. So the Wynn pool would be using up about the same water as an additional 1,411 residents, or about the same amount as the Paris hotel or Caesar's Palace, uses with its hotel guests.

Interesting read is available. Google "Water Use on the Las Vegas Strip".

So, the pool is not so bad. And given that a golf course (what is currently there) gets a budget 6.3 acre-feet of water per irrigated acre (source: Las Vegas Water District) replacing the golf course with a lake will only result in a slightly more deleterious effect. (the Wynn pool would use 8.32 acre-feet of water / acre). And Wynn will look for ways to be green.


Thanks for that math. Interesting.
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DRich
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April 8th, 2016 at 6:52:10 AM permalink
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that by adding the lake they are planning on removing part of the golf course. Golf courses in Las Vegas use tons of water. The net effect probably won't be as bad as imagined.

Secondly, I believe the golf course is going to go away completely. The land has become to valuable to house a golf course when you can tear it out and put in high rise housing. If Wynn wants a golf course they will probably buy an existing one away from the strip. That model has worked for MGM and Caesars.
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Wizard
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April 8th, 2016 at 8:21:44 AM permalink
That golf course is on extremely valuable land. I think it is better put to another use that more people can enjoy.

Regarding a swimming race, I know somebody who could get us in.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
ahiromu
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April 8th, 2016 at 9:01:07 AM permalink
How awesome would it be if the artificial lake/beach was surrounded by table games? Like a ring of gaming pits and restaurants around it.

I like the idea, it looks super awesome. However, I agree with the naysayers here about its practicality. That's the free market though, best of luck to Wynn.
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boymimbo
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April 8th, 2016 at 9:10:56 AM permalink
I didn't forget the golf course usage. If you go to the Las Vegas Water Authority, the golf course has a water budget of 6.3 acre-feet per acre of water. Water evaporation for the lake is 8.3 acre-feet / acre.

As mentioned above, the diameter of a 38 acre lake would be about 1450 feet (assuming circular). He has about 110 acres dedicated to the golf course today, so the water usage for the lake at 38 acres would be less than half than for the current golf course.

With the lake in the middle of all of this and a new resort on the west end I don't see room for the golf course. When you look at the picture, the lake is more like about 20 - 25 acres. This would allow 9 holes of the golf course to continue.
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Wizard
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April 10th, 2016 at 2:06:15 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I accept your challenge. I respectfully expect to kick butt, but since we've never been swimming together, I could be wrong.



You're on! I look forward to a good race. Fair warning -- I'm a good swimmer and long distance is my specialty.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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April 10th, 2016 at 4:50:51 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You're on! I look forward to a good race. Fair warning -- I'm a good swimmer and long distance is my specialty.



I will need a handicap to accept this challenge. Like a 2 hour head start =)
Wizard
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April 10th, 2016 at 7:46:27 PM permalink
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

I will need a handicap to accept this challenge. Like a 2 hour head start =)



You should be able to whop my ass without the handicap.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DRich
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April 11th, 2016 at 7:02:19 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I accept your challenge. I respectfully expect to kick butt, but since we've never been swimming together, I could be wrong.



I'm very intrigued by BBB's confidence. I hope we actually get the opportunity to witness this.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
TwoFeathersATL
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April 11th, 2016 at 7:47:55 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I'm very intrigued by BBB's confidence. I hope we actually get the opportunity to witness this.

If I was just 10 years younger, back when I was in good shape, and I'm 10 years older than the Wiz, and don't know bout BABBs, I would jump on/in this challenge. 10 years later now, I would prolly need ambulatory rescue.

Maybe if they gave me a little head start?
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
GWAE
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April 11th, 2016 at 8:03:29 AM permalink
I think we need to find an Olympic size pool and make this bbb vs wizard chllenge happen.

Or was BBB basically saying she will walk to the moon if this project actually happens.
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Wizard
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April 11th, 2016 at 8:16:19 AM permalink
There are some hotel pools that have 50 meter lap lanes. Off hand, I can think of the MGM and Venetian. However, the MGM pool has a sitting ledge so isn't conducive to flip turns. I'll also simply pay any challenger and myself to use a gym pool by my place in Summerlin. I'd prefer a solid kilometer race but am open to negotiation.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Doc
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April 11th, 2016 at 8:18:56 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

If I was just 10 years younger, back when I was in good shape ....


I think it would have worked out best if I had challenged the Wizard some time during the summer of 1967. I was still an undergraduate then and not nearly so fat and lazy as now. He was 2 years old. I think I could have won that race quite handily.

;-)
Wizard
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April 11th, 2016 at 8:21:15 AM permalink
Guys, remember the closing of the Boy Scout oath:

"To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
GWAE
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April 11th, 2016 at 8:23:30 AM permalink
Well I have at least 1 of those going for me.
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Slotobit
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April 11th, 2016 at 8:30:23 AM permalink
wow, very nice, of course so much better, right paradise not only for the child but also for adults.
DRich
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April 11th, 2016 at 9:21:15 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Well I have at least 1 of those going for me.



Sadly, I think I am 0 for 3.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
TwoFeathersATL
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April 11th, 2016 at 11:52:36 AM permalink
As an honest self accessment, I scored a 0.50.......
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Wizard
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April 11th, 2016 at 4:12:01 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Sadly, I think I am 0 for 3.



I can't speak to your physical strength, but you seem like a sharp honest guy to me. From what I know of you, I'd give you a 2. Come do a triathlon with me to make it a 3.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Doc
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April 11th, 2016 at 5:27:23 PM permalink
Lemme see now...

I'm obese... (definitely not physically fit.)

Just yesterday I botched the logic/calculation on the Wizard's McNuggets combo problem... (mentally befuddled).

I enjoy gambling in casinos... (questionable moral rectitude???)


Does that leave me 0 for 3?
teddys
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April 11th, 2016 at 10:16:01 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

There are some hotel pools that have 50 meter lap lanes. Off hand, I can think of the MGM and Venetian. However, the MGM pool has a sitting ledge so isn't conducive to flip turns. I'll also simply pay any challenger and myself to use a gym pool by my place in Summerlin. I'd prefer a solid kilometer race but am open to negotiation.

I want to learn how to do flip turns.

I swim every day when I am around my health club. I like it because I can always get a lane.
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GWAE
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April 12th, 2016 at 12:48:25 AM permalink
Quote: Doc

Lemme see now...

I'm obese... (definitely not physically fit.)

Just yesterday I botched the logic/calculation on the Wizard's McNuggets combo problem... (mentally befuddled).

I enjoy gambling in casinos... (questionable moral rectitude???)


Does that leave me 0 for 3?



No comment ;-)
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DRich
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April 12th, 2016 at 8:32:25 AM permalink
Lake to use a lot less water than golf course.

http://www.cdcgamingreports.com/wynns-lagoon-project-would-use-less-water-than-18-hole-golf-course/
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AcesAndEights
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April 12th, 2016 at 10:06:56 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

I want to learn how to do flip turns.

I swim every day when I am around my health club. I like it because I can always get a lane.


It's harder than it looks - an ex-girlfriend who was a swimmer tried to teach me. I gave up. But I am not a strong swimmer and am not very good in the water in general (very small lung capacity).
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TwoFeathersATL
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April 12th, 2016 at 10:19:03 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

It's harder than it looks - an ex-girlfriend who was a swimmer tried to teach me. I gave up. But I am not a strong swimmer and am not very good in the water in general (very small lung capacity).

You got video of flip turns with your girlfriend? You have made me wonder exactly how that works, what you were talking about, etc. Need video to straighten it out in my feeble head.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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April 13th, 2016 at 12:02:00 PM permalink
Although we are getting off topic, to do a flip turn:

1.) Reach one end of the pool approximately 3-4 ft before you make contact freestyle.
2.) Take deep breathe and hold
3.) Tuck your head into your stomach
4.) Do a somersault as if you have no fear.
5.) You'll be upside down but it's ok. NO FEAR!
6.) Momentum will carry your legs forward till you reach the wall.
7.) Legs should be loose but you can do a slight tuck if you want to accelerate on the return like torpedo.

Safety disclosures:
1.) Attempt at own risk.
2.) Turn too close to the wall and you will hit your head, too far and you won't have enough speed to accelerate.
3.) Avoid in pools less than 5ft deep. I've watched pros hurt themselves in 4ft. Amateurs need a larger margin of error.
beachbumbabs
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April 13th, 2016 at 9:18:53 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I'm very intrigued by BBB's confidence. I hope we actually get the opportunity to witness this.



Well, according to the latest estimate I saw, this lagoon won't open until 2020. So that gives me a few years to work on it.

Mostly past glory, and I would expect to be a dog in the betting. But I might surprise you, and the Wiz.

I was very, very, very good 40 years ago, and still very good 20 years ago. Briefly: I was a sprinter age 8 through high school (for 1 week I was fastest woman in America - 1975 - then got beat), swam State, qualified for Olympic trials but did not make the team, then swam NCAA with the men as we didn't have a women's team, switched to distance. Never won while competing with men, but took a lot of 2nds and 3rds - useful points in a team sport. Still swim laps, but very sedentary these days in comparison.

At worst, I'll have lost some weight and gotten some wind back if I go back into training now, by the time there's a lagoon to swim in. :) Hence accepting the challenge. Gets me off my butt and back in the water.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
beachbumbabs
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April 13th, 2016 at 9:40:29 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

I want to learn how to do flip turns.

I swim every day when I am around my health club. I like it because I can always get a lane.



AssWhoop gave pretty good instructions, but let me add a little;

1.Try to time it so your dominant hand is reaching for the wall just before you touch, even if it breaks your rhythm a little.

2. Drive that hand and shoulder down HARD below you, while tucking your head alongside the other armpit, like you're trying to dig to the bottom of the pool. That will carry your torso down and out of your way. It can help to have the other arm (that's down by your side) "lift" from the elbow so both shoulders are forced down (it's kind of a twitch, like the start of a stroke that you stop before the arm actually comes forward).

3. Bend your knees as you lift your hips, and because your torso is going down (and you have inertia because you're moving), your legs will continue beyond your body. You need your knees well bent so you don't flip your feet onto the gutter (painful). Once your legs are past your hips, you can start to straighten your legs so your feet hit the wall.

4. Push off hard, your arms outstretched, hands nearly together, all underwater. Give a couple dolphin kicks until it feels like the water is dragging you a little (instead of the acceleration you felt from pushing off the wall), then surface and begin to stroke again.

Hope this helps...it doesn't work to practice from a point right next to the wall because you need to be moving. Back up 3 strokes and swim into it. The faster you move, the better it works.

Edit: Actually, I would suggest you try the move at speed, but well before you get to the wall. Once you have the turning down (you'll be turned but stationary without a wall to push off of), get nearer and nearer the wall until you get a firm push. The markings on the bottom usually help; I'm almost 6 ft with a 74" wingspan, and the "t" in the tiles of a lane even with my eyes was a perfect place to start the move.
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Wizard
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April 13th, 2016 at 10:19:33 PM permalink
I do a good flip turn. Nobody ever taught me, just figured it out on my own. It just takes practice.

What I wish I could do is the part after the kick where you turn into a sperm swimming under water for 10-20 meters.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
beachbumbabs
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April 13th, 2016 at 11:39:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I do a good flip turn. Nobody ever taught me, just figured it out on my own. It just takes practice.

What I wish I could do is the part after the kick where you turn into a sperm swimming under water for 10-20 meters.



Well, nobody will need one for the lagoon, so you won't be missing out. Made me think of Woody Allen dressed as a sperm when you said that...
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DiceDealer
DiceDealer
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April 14th, 2016 at 12:26:12 AM permalink
I also like to punctuate gambling with a good swim. I enjoyed staying at Harrah’s Laughlin and swimming the Colorado River. I will have to try the 50 m pool at Venetian. Does it close at 5 or 6 pm like most Vegas hotel pools?

I am interested in participating in this challenge.
Last edited by: DiceDealer on Apr 14, 2016
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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April 14th, 2016 at 3:10:16 AM permalink
Trump tower also has a very long pool. I was surprised that it was:

a) open in the winter months
b) heated
c) had no type of cover to prevent heat loss during the night
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 14th, 2016 at 8:08:33 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...What I wish I could do is the part after the kick where you turn into a sperm swimming under water for 10-20 meters.


"Dolphin kick"
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
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