The Future of Primm Looks Grim

If you missed it, Whiskey Pete's closed its doors a few weeks back after nearly 50 years in operation. The official word is this situation is only temporary, but one look at Primm and you'll be forgiven for any feelings of skepticism. Consider...

Whiskey Pete's, closed. The train and monorails that once crossed the I-15 connecting the three Primm resorts have not been running for years and now sit rusting and rotting in their stations. A thrift store is now the only business still operating in the mall that once boasted 100 shops and cart vendors. The entryway that connected the mall to the Primm Valley Resort is now blocked off.

This entryway is closed because the half of the PVR casino where it exists is now empty and cordoned off. The live table games are gone and the slots in this section moved to Buffalo Bill's. The sports book is closed and hidden behind curtains. The hotel itself is also closed as are all the restaurants save one lone pizzeria.To say the place is running on fumes would be charitable.

The property owners seem to be circling the wagons to make a last stand at Buffalo Bill's. It makes sense. It's the newest of the Primm resorts and contains a 6000 seat concert venue that can continue to bring people in. Still, much like the monorails, the rollercoaster and the log flume that winds it's way through the casino haven't run for years. The other amusement rides are simply gone. Most of the arcade is cordoned off and empty with only a few games remaining at the entrance. "Family friendly" is at best in limbo.

To be fair, the buffalo shaped pool is still open, and most of the fun interior decor is still in good shape. However, live table games have been replaced with electric equivalents. There's still dealers, but the chips now only appear on computer screens. The dealers, presumably, are there to answer questions or maybe work the stick at the electric craps table. Essentially, Buffalo Bill's has become a glorified Dotty's.

Once upon a time, Whiskey Pete's was a pretty big deal. To the people in Southern California heading to Vegas it was their first chance to gamble when they reached Nevada, and their last chance to get lucky on their way back home. In fact, many of them, who just wanted to get to gambling, would forego that last 40 minute stretch to Vegas and simply spend the weekend in one of Pete's fabled seven hundred and seventy seven rooms.

Business got so brisk that the Primm family opened up two more resorts: the Primadonna (now the Primm Valley Resort) and Buffalo Bill's. It was a golden age of action at the California/Nevada state line.

So what happened?

That's no secret. California, once with rather prudish gambling laws, is now full of tribal casinos, many of them just as good or even better than their Vegas counterparts. Why drive 3 1/2 hours to the state line to gamble when a good casino is less than an hour away? Then throw covid on top of Primm's woes.

The owners of the Primm resorts recognize the problem and are trying to think of ways to get travelers to stop and visit. But it's a tall order. They're competing with all the bells and whistles of Sin City just up the freeway. And even if they come up with a great original idea, the other casinos could all just duplicate it. Laughlin is in a similar situation, but it at least has the Colorado River as a draw, something not even a Strip casino can replicate.

If you ever drive up the I-15 from LA to Vegas you'll see a parade of broken dreams: abandoned buildings, abandoned gas stations, abandoned diners, even an abandoned water park. Will future drivers arriving at the state line be greeted with the sight of an abandoned shopping mall and three abandoned casinos? I hope not ... but I wouldn't bet against it.
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Below is a link I saw on MrCasinoGames news thread which examines Primm's challenges. Also a YouTube video of a news story covering the closing of Whiskey Pete's.

The poll asks: What's the future for Primm?

Story at Nevada Independent

I scouted Primm not too long ago. What a disgrace. None of those casinos will survive as casinos- absolutely nothing to draw anyone there from any direction.

Now if I owned a resort there, I would convert it from a casino to something California will probably never have- a gun and shooting oriented resort. Southern California has a large population of people who... looking for a nonconfrontational way to put it... are devoted supporters of the Second Amendment and do not approve of their state's rendering of it. To have a resort right on the state line out of the jungle of Vegas, where you can get up and shoot, shoot indoors, shoot outdoors, bring your hardware, rent your hardware, store your hardware there in a locker for your next trip, contests and challenges, enjoying the company of like-minded citizens, now that would be a winner.

I would also make it clothing-optional.

You do have those shooting parks that do well outside Orlando, but there are plenty of places to shoot in Vegas AND which are also near civilization. When the high speed rail construction happens some of the hotel rooms will probably be repurposed for construction crews, so there is that, but after that is completed you can stick a fork into it.

They should have staged the Seven Magic Mountains there.
I think a better question is, why should Primm have a future? It's a tourist trap that no longer has a hook. Had they come out as the state-only weed-friendly hotel in 2018, they might have had a chance, but now the colossal fuel station a few miles north is more of a destination

Mint 400.

Turn it into a giant skate park with slot machines and strippers.

A zip line across I-15 would help.

Quote: billryan

but now the colossal fuel station a few miles north is more of a destination

The company that I worked for opened that gas station. They also owned the Chevron station in Primm previously and that was the busiest gas station in the country many years ago.

Don’t bother filling your vehicle up at Terrible’s huge Chevron gas station in Jean - for some reason (there’s a QR code on the pumps explaining why but I didn’t bother to scan it) even though it’s in NV it charges CA prices due to “California policies.” Paid over $5 a gallon to fill the tank with premium the last time we drove out of Vegas heading back to southern CA because I neglected to fill it up somewhere near the Strip.

If there is no “California policy” behind it and Herbst’s heirs are simply gouging everyone who stops by, I suppose the excess profits are trying to make up for the 2020 permanent closure of their nearby casino.

Quote: MDawg

Don’t bother filling your vehicle up at Terrible’s huge Chevron gas station in Jean - for some reason (there’s a QR code on the pumps explaining why but I didn’t bother to scan it) even though it’s in NV it charges CA prices due to “California policies.” Paid over $5 a gallon to fill the tank with premium the last time we drove out of Vegas heading back to southern CA because I neglected to fill it up somewhere near the Strip.

If there is no “California policy” behind it and Herbst’s heirs are simply gouging everyone who stops by, I suppose the excess profits are trying to make up for the 2020 permanent closure of their nearby casino.
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I have no idea what that "California policy" is. I just assume they are asking a premium for convenience for people like you that forgot to gas up. I consider it the same as all gas stations that mark up gas near the rental car return lot.

In New York in the 1980s, most gas stations had distributor agreements that tied prices to the closest stations. If the nearest stations are all in California or the distributor is in California, it might come into play..

Quote: DRich

Quote: MDawg

Don’t bother filling your vehicle up at Terrible’s huge Chevron gas station in Jean - for some reason (there’s a QR code on the pumps explaining why but I didn’t bother to scan it) even though it’s in NV it charges CA prices due to “California policies.” Paid over $5 a gallon to fill the tank with premium the last time we drove out of Vegas heading back to southern CA because I neglected to fill it up somewhere near the Strip.

If there is no “California policy” behind it and Herbst’s heirs are simply gouging everyone who stops by, I suppose the excess profits are trying to make up for the 2020 permanent closure of their nearby casino.
link to original post

I have no idea what that "California policy" is. I just assume they are asking a premium for convenience for people like you that forgot to gas up. I consider it the same as all gas stations that mark up gas near the rental car return lot.
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California requires additional additives / processing to gasoline to reduce emissions. As a result, gas prices tend to be higher in California than pretty much anywhere else in the USA. The high gas taxes don't help matters any, but you would think a Nevada gas station wouldn't charge those.

In New York in the 1980s, most gas stations had distributor agreements that tied prices to the closest stations. If the nearest stations are all in California or the distributor is in California, it might come into play..

What impressed me the most about the gas station was the enormous amounts of loose candy they had in huge vats. It looked really nice but couldn't possibly turn a profit. At the time of my visit, White Castle wasn't fully open and shut down around 9 PM, which upset many people who stopped just for WC.

Quote: billryan

What impressed me the most about the gas station was the enormous amounts of loose candy they had in huge vats. It looked really nice but couldn't possibly turn a profit. At the time of my visit, White Castle wasn't fully open and shut down around 9 PM, which upset many people who stopped just for WC.

When we built that gas station there were numerous trips to Bucee's to model it after. It is not quite as big as some Bucee's but you can definitely see the resemblance My favorite thing about it is the airplanes hanging from the ceiling.

.

I'm not sure I've ever been to a Bucee's, and don't spend much time in truck stops since Godfathers changed their business model a few years ago.

Quote: billryan

I'm not sure I've ever been to a Bucee's, and don't spend much time in truck stops since Godfathers changed their business model a few years ago.
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Just to be clear, Bucee's are not truck stops just big gas stations. I don't believe that they even allow trucks. They usually have between 100 and 125 gas pumps just for cars.

I voted that one resort will stay open. Maybe I'm being naive, but I just can't fathom there not not being at least one place to lose your money between the state line and the South Point.

Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.

Quote: Gialmere

I voted that one resort will stay open. Maybe I'm being naive, but I just can't fathom there not not being at least one place to lose your money between the state line and the South Point.

Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.
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I’m sure there is a market for something profitable in that area. Like most things, you have find it and adjust with the times.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

I scouted Primm not too long ago. What a disgrace. None of those casinos will survive as casinos- absolutely nothing to draw anyone there from any direction.

Now if I owned a resort there, I would convert it from a casino to something California will probably never have- a gun and shooting oriented resort. Southern California has a large population of people who... looking for a nonconfrontational way to put it... are devoted supporters of the Second Amendment and do not approve of their state's rendering of it. To have a resort right on the state line out of the jungle of Vegas, where you can get up and shoot, shoot indoors, shoot outdoors, bring your hardware, rent your hardware, store your hardware there in a locker for your next trip, contests and challenges, enjoying the company of like-minded citizens, now that would be a winner.

I would also make it clothing-optional.
link to original post

My company bought those three casinos from MGM for about $1.2 billion dollars. A horrible decision as that was right after California casinos became popular. We sold them for $400 million about four years later. I doubt that you could get $100 million now for all three.

Quote: Gialmere

I voted that one resort will stay open. Maybe I'm being naive, but I just can't fathom there not not being at least one place to lose your money between the state line and the South Point.

Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.
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M?

One thing I do not see mentioned here is how stretched Mr. and Mrs. Middle America are.

So say the average customer is from SoCal. Minimum $1500 rent, probably $500 a month car payment, $150 a month car insurance, $400 utilities. Talking need to make $30 grand a year to merely wake up and get to work. $15 to eat at McDonald's. The money people had for this kind of side trip is not there like it was in the 2000s.

Quote: AZDuffman

One thing I do not see mentioned here is how stretched Mr. and Mrs. Middle America are.

So say the average customer is from SoCal. Minimum $1500 rent, probably $500 a month car payment, $150 a month car insurance, $400 utilities. Talking need to make $30 grand a year to merely wake up and get to work. $15 to eat at McDonald's. The money people had for this kind of side trip is not there like it was in the 2000s.
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People somehow managed without $500 car payments. If you have a family and aren't making more than 30K, perhaps a weekend in a casino isn't for you. I think most people don't have earnings issues; they have spending problems.

Quote: AZDuffman

One thing I do not see mentioned here is how stretched Mr. and Mrs. Middle America are.

So say the average customer is from SoCal. Minimum $1500 rent, probably $500 a month car payment, $150 a month car insurance, $400 utilities. Talking need to make $30 grand a year to merely wake up and get to work. $15 to eat at McDonald's. The money people had for this kind of side trip is not there like it was in the 2000s.
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In California minimum wage jobs pay over $30k a year. I would guess the average 25yo in California is making close to $50k a year. Obviously college grads making closer to $65k or $70k.

Quote: DRich

In California minimum wage jobs pay over $30k a year. I would guess the average 25yo in California is making close to $50k a year. Obviously college grads making closer to $65k or $70k.
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And they are struggling at any of those wages. The nerve of them, expecting a First World standard of living!

But I do think the primary reason is the proliferation of Indian casinos. Las Vegas is an experience for a tourist that can't be reproduced at an Indian store in CA, but it can't be reproduced in Primm either. As long as there isn't something really bad about a location (e.g., crime, urban decay) the typical gambler is going to the store that is close and easy.

There's also the issue of geography and demography in that the Indian stores are newer and were located with more current population and traffic patterns in mind. We saw this same kind of geographic doom when a K-Mart that was put in what was an ideal location in 1970 could not compete against a Walmart that was in an ideal location in 2000.

But, where do I go pee now!!!!

You never know. The future of Primm might look grim NOW, but it could totally recover. Heck, Red Lobster fuled for Bankruptcy and COMPLETELY turned it around at the brink of destruction and continued to THRIVE. Primm could pull a Red Lobster and THRIVE. 💡🤔

Quote: billryan

Quote: AZDuffman

One thing I do not see mentioned here is how stretched Mr. and Mrs. Middle America are.

So say the average customer is from SoCal. Minimum $1500 rent, probably $500 a month car payment, $150 a month car insurance, $400 utilities. Talking need to make $30 grand a year to merely wake up and get to work. $15 to eat at McDonald's. The money people had for this kind of side trip is not there like it was in the 2000s.
link to original post

People somehow managed without $500 car payments. If you have a family and aren't making more than 30K, perhaps a weekend in a casino isn't for you. I think most people don't have earnings issues; they have spending problems.
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$500 car payments are insane, $250 car payments in the 80s was insane. The median car payment now is like $700. The problem now, though, is it is harder and harder to live small. We don't have a modern Ford Falcon, we do not have a modern Levittown. Both have been not just made unprofitable to try to make but even legislated out of existence.

The top 20%, though, are doing pretty good. Already have the house payment locked in. Hitting peak earning. And they are not stopping at a "border village" of smaller casinos--they are going to Wynn and Caesars.

Prior to CA casinos, there were tons of busses taking Californians to Primm. Now, there can't be many if any.

The McDonald's in Barstow was considered the half way point and most busses stopped there. Back then it was the busiest Mickey D's in the country. Wonder what its volume is now.