Blackjack Conditions at El Cortez
May 10th, 2011 at 12:55:36 PM
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Hi everyone I was just wondering has anyone been backed off or barred while playing at El Cortez, what has your experience been, just curious because I am going to vegas in a month and thought I'd stop by, plus I've heared stories.
Thanks. : )
Thanks. : )
August 9th, 2012 at 3:40:03 PM
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Far late for this, I know, but I thought I'd share my experience. I didn't get backed off, but I was defintely getting frowns from two supervisors that were watching the game. I mainly flat bet to avoid getting backed off--even though conditions were in my favor and I would have won a lot more.
August 9th, 2012 at 4:31:34 PM
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El Cortez is notorious as one of the sweatiest places downtown, or even in Vegas. Some counters consider it a rite of passage to play there and get backed off. So, don't expect to play for long if you are skilled, or if you are playing green chips and are lucky.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
August 10th, 2012 at 12:39:18 PM
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So what happens when they back you off? Do they give you any kind of documentation? I'd be proud to hang something like that on my wall!
August 10th, 2012 at 1:14:42 PM
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I play there 4 to 5 hrs daily when in LV. I think it's pretty obvious that I count but I've never had any bad experiences. They have even comped me breakfast.
August 10th, 2012 at 7:16:27 PM
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Quote: PGBusterSo what happens when they back you off? Do they give you any kind of documentation? I'd be proud to hang something like that on my wall!
They come up to you all smiles and say, "You are just too good for us; we'd really like it if you played any game other than Blackjack. Why don't you play some Craps, or Roulette?"
According to the movies, if you get really good they might break your hand. Then you could hang up the x-rays in your den. But they try to avoid that kind of publicity today, which might actually be a downside for you, since that would have been the only documentation that you might have gotten out of the deal. Maybe you can do like James Grosjean and get arrested for hole carding, though. That would come with documents.
August 10th, 2012 at 7:49:06 PM
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Quote: PGBusterSo what Do they give you any kind of documentation? I'd be proud to hang something like that on my wallhappens when they back you off? !
Yes indeed. You get one of these, they'll even sign it for $20.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 10th, 2012 at 7:53:42 PM
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And if you do get arrested, the booking officers are much nicer now. You are given a pad and pencil to copy telephone numbers
from your cell phone ,before they lock it up.
Seems since cell phones few people can remember any phone numbers.
from your cell phone ,before they lock it up.
Seems since cell phones few people can remember any phone numbers.
August 10th, 2012 at 8:00:18 PM
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Quote: buzzpaff
Seems since cell phones few people can remember any phone numbers.
I have no idea what my own number is, I'd
have to look it up on the phone. Yet I remember
what my number was in 1960.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 10th, 2012 at 8:09:24 PM
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Most people credit Alexander Bell or Bell Labs with inventing the rotary dial.
Necessity is the mother of invention
Convinced that it should be subscribers, rather than the operator, who chose who was called - anecdotally, Strowger's undertaking business was losing clients to a competitor whose telephone-operator wife was intercepting and redirecting everyone who called Strowger - he first conceived his invention in 1888, and patented the automatic telephone exchange in 1891. It is reported that he initially constructed a model of his invention from a round collar box and some straight pins.
Necessity is the mother of invention
Convinced that it should be subscribers, rather than the operator, who chose who was called - anecdotally, Strowger's undertaking business was losing clients to a competitor whose telephone-operator wife was intercepting and redirecting everyone who called Strowger - he first conceived his invention in 1888, and patented the automatic telephone exchange in 1891. It is reported that he initially constructed a model of his invention from a round collar box and some straight pins.
September 2nd, 2012 at 8:32:09 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsEl Cortez is notorious as one of the sweatiest places downtown, or even in Vegas. Some counters consider it a rite of passage to play there and get backed off. So, don't expect to play for long if you are skilled, or if you are playing green chips and are lucky.
I've got a flatbet restriction for the former and a backoff for the latter. It's too bad, I really liked the place. I had professional 30-something friends visiting in Vegas for the first time while I was there and that was where I took them to show them "Old Vegas" charm.
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:18:58 PM
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I have had probably 12 -14 back offs in Vegas for blackjack in the 3 years I have lived here and 4 have been at El cortez including one fairly recent. They are notoriously sweaty. Their backoffs are polite. Pretty much just as heather stated. "No more blackjack. You are too good" or "your play is too strong". The older white guys, Mo and Joe are the worst. Very quick. Asain pit ladies are more tolerant. You must keep sessions short.
My 3rd backoff came with a question. "Didn't we tell you before...." lol Doesn't really matter. In Vegas, backoffs and barrings, even after having been read trespass act, have no consequences, other than you must leave that day. The Wilkenson decision from the 70's still stands today in that even after being read the trespass act, the patron must first be given the chance to leave. It is not like in the movies. You could show up every day, play and be told to leave and that if you return be threatened with arrest. So being read trespass act has no teeth. It's now really just an intimidation tactic.
If you are wondering why players keep returning to play after being backoffed or trespassed, it is because they do offer very good games.
My 3rd backoff came with a question. "Didn't we tell you before...." lol Doesn't really matter. In Vegas, backoffs and barrings, even after having been read trespass act, have no consequences, other than you must leave that day. The Wilkenson decision from the 70's still stands today in that even after being read the trespass act, the patron must first be given the chance to leave. It is not like in the movies. You could show up every day, play and be told to leave and that if you return be threatened with arrest. So being read trespass act has no teeth. It's now really just an intimidation tactic.
If you are wondering why players keep returning to play after being backoffed or trespassed, it is because they do offer very good games.
September 21st, 2012 at 1:39:37 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsEl Cortez is notorious as one of the sweatiest places downtown, or even in Vegas. Some counters consider it a rite of passage to play there and get backed off. So, don't expect to play for long if you are skilled, or if you are playing green chips and are lucky.
Next time I'm in LV I'm going to make a trip there just to get BO'd. lol.
The Terror of Casinos.
October 21st, 2012 at 8:10:48 PM
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After hearing so much about the legend of El Cortez, I'm going to go try it out on my next trip. I've heard lots about the great blackjack games and the low minimums, but I'm not really interested in playing for red chips (If I'm going to get kicked out of a place, I want to get kicked out over some real money). What are the max bets on these tables? Are they, at least, in the $500 - $1000 range? How long can get away with spreading $100 - $500? Will they let me jump in mid-deck if I don't make it too obvious? Like, if I'm "talking to my friend" while he is playing, and I notice the count get good, and I sit down and try to bet a few hundred... will they allow that?
October 28th, 2012 at 7:05:47 PM
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I got an email telling me that someone had replied to this thread, but then there was the accidental database purge, so I never got the chance to read the reply.
So... feel free to re-post your reply :) I'm heading to Vegas this week...
Thanks!
So... feel free to re-post your reply :) I'm heading to Vegas this week...
Thanks!
October 29th, 2012 at 9:38:19 AM
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I was at El Cortez 2 weeks ago. There were multiple single deck tables with a min of $5. I think you had to wait until the next suffle to join. Cards were dealt face down and I don't recall the max bid.
There is also a 2 deck $3 min table. I think it's max bet was $500 and cards are dealt face up. I played at this table. My bet was $5 and I jumped to $25 a couple of times. I got some looks from the pitboss when doing this but nothing said. I wasn't counting, just using my gut on a good hand.
I had fun and ended up plus $190 between the BJ and Pai Gow. The drinks were weak so just keep them coming.
Enjoy.
There is also a 2 deck $3 min table. I think it's max bet was $500 and cards are dealt face up. I played at this table. My bet was $5 and I jumped to $25 a couple of times. I got some looks from the pitboss when doing this but nothing said. I wasn't counting, just using my gut on a good hand.
I had fun and ended up plus $190 between the BJ and Pai Gow. The drinks were weak so just keep them coming.
Enjoy.
October 29th, 2012 at 11:31:51 AM
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Thanks for the info. I look forward to checking this place out.
August 26th, 2015 at 11:59:52 AM
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Just got back from Vegas. hit up El Cortez.
Spread 1-10 on the ten dollar game. Asian Pit lady was paying attention but no counting of discards,flatbets or backoff.
I was expecting my trophy :( I did like the place though.
Spread 1-10 on the ten dollar game. Asian Pit lady was paying attention but no counting of discards,flatbets or backoff.
I was expecting my trophy :( I did like the place though.
August 26th, 2015 at 2:14:29 PM
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Quote: nickolay411Just got back from Vegas. hit up El Cortez.
Spread 1-10 on the ten dollar game. Asian Pit lady was paying attention but no counting of discards,flatbets or backoff.
She is very inconsistent. I have experienced her being very tolerant as well as a little 'uptight'. I guess it depends on her mood.
At the risk of 'political incorrectness' and sounding like "The Donald", I think it is that way with all women. Ut..oh, I can just feel Babs growling a little at that remark. :)
August 27th, 2015 at 9:04:52 AM
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Quote: kewljShe is very inconsistent. I have experienced her being very tolerant as well as a little 'uptight'. I guess it depends on her mood.
At the risk of 'political incorrectness' and sounding like "The Donald", I think it is that way with all women. Ut..oh, I can just feel Babs growling a little at that remark. :)
Thanks for the heads ups. When I colored up I just wanted to say Thank You but she never looked over or made eye contact.
After reading everything on this site about Cortez I felt quite paranoid while playing. I kept asking myself if they were constantly watching me. Kinda Unnerving but the dealers were all nice... I Sometimes did not bet the max when I should have and playing at least 3 units on a new shuffle. A cover play i learned here form you I think Kewlj. I doubt it was a big enough cover though...
August 27th, 2015 at 11:19:09 AM
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Quote: nickolay411After reading everything on this site about Cortez I felt quite paranoid while playing. I kept asking myself if they were constantly watching me. Kinda Unnerving but the dealers were all nice... I Sometimes did not bet the max when I should have and playing at least 3 units on a new shuffle. A cover play i learned here form you I think Kewlj. I doubt it was a big enough cover though...
I played at the EC a few weeks ago, only did a 1-5 spread, and had a similar experience to you. Expected to get heat that never came. Though I only played 30-45 minutes.
August 27th, 2015 at 11:23:12 AM
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Quote: nickolay411Thanks for the heads ups. When I colored up I just wanted to say Thank You but she never looked over or made eye contact.
After reading everything on this site about Cortez I felt quite paranoid while playing. I kept asking myself if they were constantly watching me. Kinda Unnerving but the dealers were all nice... I Sometimes did not bet the max when I should have and playing at least 3 units on a new shuffle. A cover play i learned here form you I think Kewlj. I doubt it was a big enough cover though...
Retreating back to minimum wager at the shuffle is just a huge tell. When playing single/double deck, I never do this. If you only retreat to some intermediate wager, you can then spread both ways, up if the count goes good or retreat back down further on a bad count. This technique is not new, certainly not something that I can take credit for and it seems like a minor detail, but you would be surprised how effective it can be. Most counters don't spread both way, so casinos aren't looking for that.
August 10th, 2016 at 11:06:08 PM
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"lol Doesn't really matter. In Vegas, backoffs and barrings, even after having been read trespass act, have no consequences, other than you must leave that day. The Wilkenson decision from the 70's still stands today in that even after being read the trespass act, the patron must first be given the chance to leave. "
Is this post accurate? Can I get a link on the Wilkenson decision?
Is this post accurate? Can I get a link on the Wilkenson decision?
August 11th, 2016 at 12:53:26 AM
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yugbh
What goes around always comes back around
August 11th, 2016 at 7:18:13 AM
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Quote: billionaireben"lol Doesn't really matter. In Vegas, backoffs and barrings, even after having been read trespass act, have no consequences, other than you must leave that day. The Wilkenson decision from the 70's still stands today in that even after being read the trespass act, the patron must first be given the chance to leave. "
Is this post accurate? Can I get a link on the Wilkenson decision?
Here: http://bj21.com/advantageplay/lawandtaxes/wilkinsontrespasscase.shtml
August 11th, 2016 at 1:32:44 PM
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It finally came. My backoff at the El Cortez. Happened a few months ago.
Playing 1-5 spread. I was down about 300 dollars when the pitboss started keeping an eye on me.
I should have covered on the high count and bet low. I was an idiot. A few hands later he comes behind me and taps me on the shoulder.
"I know what you're doing" He winks. "You're going to have to keep it at a flat bet of 5 dollars"
That was friday night. I figured I'd stop in on Saturday (different shift right?) and give it another whirl. On my first hand I had placed a 25 dollar wager. I could see another pitboss get a call on the telephone right away. He walked up to me and said
"After this hand, no more blackjack, you can play anything else"
So did the eye in the sky recognize me from a picture? I don't get it. I guess the El Cortez is as sweaty as they say.
I'll be visiting them soon. Anything I could do better next time?
Playing 1-5 spread. I was down about 300 dollars when the pitboss started keeping an eye on me.
I should have covered on the high count and bet low. I was an idiot. A few hands later he comes behind me and taps me on the shoulder.
"I know what you're doing" He winks. "You're going to have to keep it at a flat bet of 5 dollars"
That was friday night. I figured I'd stop in on Saturday (different shift right?) and give it another whirl. On my first hand I had placed a 25 dollar wager. I could see another pitboss get a call on the telephone right away. He walked up to me and said
"After this hand, no more blackjack, you can play anything else"
So did the eye in the sky recognize me from a picture? I don't get it. I guess the El Cortez is as sweaty as they say.
I'll be visiting them soon. Anything I could do better next time?
Last edited by: nickolay411 on Aug 11, 2016
August 11th, 2016 at 1:41:03 PM
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Quote: kewljMost counters don't spread both way, so casinos aren't looking for that.
I'll make sure to do this more often! Thanks kewlj
December 26th, 2016 at 11:24:21 AM
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Playing at the El. Low roller 5 to 20 spread. Just an easy high low count system single deck. 1st session seemed like never a positive count. Down about 30 and left. Came back this morning. Very tough. Get a positive count and dealer gets BJ. uggh. Noticed the dealer flashing burn card so factering that into count. Got a plus 6 count. Wow. Went up from 5 to 20. I get 11 and double down and win. Sweet fun for a low roller playing short sessions. Walked out up 30. Thrilled as a low roller :-)
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
October 25th, 2017 at 4:22:27 PM
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I have paid a visit to the El Cortez a few weeks ago. Looks like the BJ pit left of the main entrance (coming from the Fremont Street Experience) is gone and was replaced with slots :(
Still a dozen tables or so left straight from the entrance, but certainly not good news.
Played for 2 hours spreading a 5-25 for old-times sake and walked out even after losing all my big bets. The new dealer allowed people to DAS which must have brought the HE down to zero, I could not convert it though.
Still a dozen tables or so left straight from the entrance, but certainly not good news.
Played for 2 hours spreading a 5-25 for old-times sake and walked out even after losing all my big bets. The new dealer allowed people to DAS which must have brought the HE down to zero, I could not convert it though.
July 21st, 2020 at 6:23:31 PM
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Old thread;; new observations. Still Single deck with same rules but HORRIBLE conditions! Now, single deck (at least as of July 4th holiday) is only two rounds no matter HOW many people are playing. With Covid, limited to 3 per table. So unless you play at least two hands, you, there will only be deal about 6 cards per round. Honestly!! LOL
Heat is MUCH higher on double deck and they hawk that game. They don't like much of a spread AND they will call "checks in play" with much less than $100 on the bet.........LOL
Heat is MUCH higher on double deck and they hawk that game. They don't like much of a spread AND they will call "checks in play" with much less than $100 on the bet.........LOL
July 21st, 2020 at 6:53:38 PM
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Quote: MJGolfThey don't like much of a spread AND they will call "checks in play" with much less than $100 on the bet.........LOL
Checks play has always been called at $25 for $5 games and players. Now if you are playing green at the $5 table, checks play goes back to the more common $100 call. AND if someone is playing green at the table, they usually don't call check play at $25 for even the red chip bettors.
July 21st, 2020 at 7:14:13 PM
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Quote: kewljChecks play has always been called at $25 for $5 games and players. Now if you are playing green at the $5 table, checks play goes back to the more common $100 call. AND if someone is playing green at the table, they usually don't call check play at $25 for even the red chip bettors.
I was a dealer for 3 weeks in the early 1990's and we called checks play at $25 also on the low limit tables.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
July 21st, 2020 at 7:33:47 PM
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Quote: DRichI was a dealer for 3 weeks in the early 1990's
Sounds like there should be a story just from this? Anything you care to share?
July 21st, 2020 at 7:43:14 PM
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The "checks play" call is obviously designed to alert pit to a player raising bets. Most players are familiar with the $100 checks play call. That is common. And that is why many red chip players spread $10 to $80 or $90, avoiding that first threshold and checks play call.
Of course a few of the sweaty very low limit places like EC (and a couple others) do a "checks play" call at $25 or $50.
Now here is a little secret about avoiding the initial checks play call. Have your first wager be more than half the checks play total. THAT says from the second you sit down that you will very shortly be going over this checks play amount and most, not all places and dealers won't bother.
Let me give you an example. $25 table, checks play called at $100. So if you initial wager, your very first bet is $75, they aren't going to call checks play at $100. That gives you the freedom to then spread both ways, which btw, increases longevity a great deal.
Of course a few of the sweaty very low limit places like EC (and a couple others) do a "checks play" call at $25 or $50.
Now here is a little secret about avoiding the initial checks play call. Have your first wager be more than half the checks play total. THAT says from the second you sit down that you will very shortly be going over this checks play amount and most, not all places and dealers won't bother.
Let me give you an example. $25 table, checks play called at $100. So if you initial wager, your very first bet is $75, they aren't going to call checks play at $100. That gives you the freedom to then spread both ways, which btw, increases longevity a great deal.
September 14th, 2021 at 2:40:17 AM
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Slot Lady never has a problem at the El Cortez. She makes the place look legit instead of this counters' hell.
September 14th, 2021 at 6:50:37 AM
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Quote: kewljSounds like there should be a story just from this? Anything you care to share?
link to original post
At the time I was a daily player downtown as I had just moved to Vegas and was looking for a job. Was playing at the Union Plaza, one of my regular stops, when they had a lot of dealers call off sick. The pitboss that knew me as a regular player asked if I would mind filling in for a dealer that was dealing but feeling sick. I literally got off the player side of the table walked around the table and started dealing. Apparently they were happy as they started putting me on the schedule. About three weeks later they schedule me for a Saturday day shift. That was the same day as the Air Traffic Controllers exam. They couldn't find anyone else to work and I told them that I couldn't be there. They said if you don't show up don't bother coming back. I went to the ATC test and did fair. My dealer career was over.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 17th, 2021 at 1:03:06 AM
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Didn’t experience any but I guess if you really want to play their games you could go to their website.
