Caesars to start charging resort fees

Quote: Boz

That is another issue. Why not require a minimum of play on a card to remove the fee?

It has been my experience with casino-hotels that if:

1) You stay in their hotel, and
2) You are paying for your hotel room there, and
3) You played fairly well at their casino during your stay, and
4) You ask them what they can do for you (based on your play) as you are checking out...

...they will often, at the bare minimum, charge you the "casino rate" which is the room rate you booked, without the resort fees.

But you basically always have to ask to see what they can do for you when you are checking out.

That would still screw me over if I stay at Bally's. Often stay there, but rarely play there. :(

Quote: JB

It has been my experience with casino-hotels that if:

1) You stay in their hotel, and
2) You are paying for your hotel room there, and
3) You played fairly well at their casino during your stay, and
4) You ask them what they can do for you (based on your play) as you are checking out...

...they will often, at the bare minimum, charge you the "casino rate" which is the room rate you booked, without the resort fees.

But you basically always have to ask to see what they can do for you when you are checking out.

Assuming that I only play video poker or blackjack, how much do you think you may need to play. I don't play enough to get comped rooms, except in December, so it is useful for me to know a minimum gambling amount.

I wish to say shame on Caesars. At least they held out as long as they did.

In my opinion it should be illegal to advertise a room for $x and when it comes time to pay surprise the customer with an added cost, going directly to the hotel, which the customer has no right to refuse.

Quote: Wizard

I wish to say shame on Caesars. At least they held out as long as they did.

In my opinion it should be illegal to advertise a room for $x and when it comes time to pay surprise the customer with an added cost, going directly to the hotel, which the customer has no right to refuse.

But Wiz, with all due respect, is this any different from Airline baggage fees? It is in the fine print somewhere and the good players, or preferred flyers don't pay the fee.

Quote: Boz

But Wiz, with all due respect, is this any different from Airline baggage fees? It is in the fine print somewhere and the good players, or preferred flyers don't pay the fee.

Yes, it is different. Passengers are not required to pay baggage fees if they don't have baggage. I would equate a resort fee to a baggage fee that was mandatory, baggage or no baggage.

Quote: Boz

But Wiz, with all due respect, is this any different from Airline baggage fees? It is in the fine print somewhere and the good players, or preferred flyers don't pay the fee.

No there is no difference, The airlines are blood sucking fee leeches as well. :)

Edit: upon reading the above post its true at least with the airlines I can make choices to avoid the fees. Not so with resort fees

CZR charging a resort fee worries me because MGM may interpret that as a competitive challenge to raise their onerous resort fee beyond $50. Every mediocre CZR/MGM MBA executive should have their chance to fill their golden parachute; but why not make a simple business decision to stuff their expansive casino square footage with fun seeking tourists and gamblers. Cash would flow again in Las Vegas if the tourists and gamblers could, once again, consider the City and the casinos as the best place in the world to get the best bet for their money. Sadly, as visits to Las Vegas increase, gambling revenues decrease. I guess the mediocre MBA executives need mediocre PhD level consultants to tell them why they’re losing money.

Resort fees. 6 to 5 blackjack. Two companies that control most of the Strip. Things are not moving in the right direction for Vegas.

Quote: Wizard

Resort fees. 6 to 5 blackjack. Two companies that control most of the Strip. Things are not moving in the right direction for Vegas.

I agree with that, but hopefully someone (Phil Ruffin?) see opportunity here. Otherwise it is a boost to off strip properties, but they too have seen the Resort fee as a chance to make money.

As for the comparison to baggage fees, I will argue that if you play, you won't have to pay. But that may remain to be seen.

Quote: robbiehood

CZR charging a resort fee worries me because MGM may interpret that as a competitive challenge to raise their onerous resort fee beyond $50. Every mediocre CZR/MGM MBA executive should have their chance to fill their golden parachute; but why not make a simple business decision to stuff their expansive casino square footage with fun seeking tourists and gamblers. Cash would flow again in Las Vegas if the tourists and gamblers could, once again, consider the City and the casinos as the best place in the world to get the best bet for their money. Sadly, as visits to Las Vegas increase, gambling revenues decrease. I guess the mediocre MBA executives need mediocre PhD level consultants to tell them why they’re losing money.

It shouldn't be the way it is, but if they made Vegas a great place to gamble, people wouldn't play locally. All these casino companies own so many different chunks of different markets(sometimes secretly), they aren't really even competing. It's a hydra and everyone thinks each head is an independent being and don't realize it's all one company for practical purposes. There are many major industries acting in this way such as banking.

For those who don't know what a hydra is, http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28500000/Hydra-mythical-creatures-28582597-1300-728.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/mythical-creatures/images/28582597/title/hydra-photo&h=728&w=1300&sz=590&tbnid=tHbeVCii5demVM:&tbnh=60&tbnw=107&zoom=1&usg=__rxw0g_Z58OcWE8czmjUm9NgwHVI=&docid=hkF-9pfgryfBcM&sa=X&ei=Y8ImUYvNNaHV0gHO7IGwBg&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBQ&dur=5689 .

Quote: Wizard

Resort fees. 6 to 5 blackjack. Two companies that control most of the Strip. Things are not moving in the right direction for Vegas.

Good points Mr Wizard.

Although I never play 6:5 blackjack, or pay a resort fee, it's getting difficult to justify a cross country trip to Las Vegas.
Pennsylvania gets most of my action these days.

Quote: robbiehood

CZR charging a resort fee worries me because MGM may interpret that as a competitive challenge to raise their onerous resort fee beyond $50. Every mediocre CZR/MGM MBA executive should have their chance to fill their golden parachute; but why not make a simple business decision to stuff their expansive casino square footage with fun seeking tourists and gamblers. Cash would flow again in Las Vegas if the tourists and gamblers could, once again, consider the City and the casinos as the best place in the world to get the best bet for their money. Sadly, as visits to Las Vegas increase, gambling revenues decrease. I guess the mediocre MBA executives need mediocre PhD level consultants to tell them why they’re losing money.

Tourists are coming to Las Vegas in droves and occupancy is up. The problem is that the tourists are not spending at the casinos because disposable income is down and hotel prices are cheaper, not because the games are particularly worse. I would say that out of the entire gambling population, perhaps 2-3% of all gamblers know enough about the games they play. The other 97% don't care or don't realize that their odds are worse on the strip than anywhere else in Vegas.

And the casinos are making money. Unfortunately, both MGM and CZR are carrying way too much debt. Sands and Wynn are doing good mostly because of their Macau operations. Even MGM I think with the City Centre debacle will survive due to its overseas operations.

CZR, on the other hand, is screwed.

Stupid question maybe - why are you calling it CZR and what does it stand for? I thought it was CET? (was HET then changed from Harrahs to Caesars)

Quote: jc2286

Stupid question maybe - why are you calling it CZR and what does it stand for? I thought it was CET? (was HET then changed from Harrahs to Caesars)

CET is the abbreviated trade name, CZR is the stock ticker. Call it either one and we'll know what you mean.

Don't be so sure,MGM charges a resort fee for comped rooms.

I hope Caesers doesn't charge for comped rooms.

Quote: rdw4potus

CET is the abbreviated trade name, CZR is the stock ticker. Call it either one and we'll know what you mean.

you're right, we know what you mean

Quote: TIMSPEED

I'm sure this doesn't apply to comp'd rooms, as we just went to Vegas and stayed at Sunset Station, which charges a $16 resort fee...and we didn't pay it at all (comp'd nights)
So, this really won't affect too many people, since most people use CZR for comp'd nights anyway...

Don't be so sure,MGM charges a resort fee for comped rooms.

It would be useful to compile a list of hotels that don't charge resort fees.

I know for a fact the 4 Queens doesn't. I think most other properties Downtown don't, either, but I'm not sure which ones.

For the Strip that leaves the non-CEt, non-MGM properties, which are few: Stratosphere, TI, CR, Cosmo, Venazzo and Wynncore (I think that's it). You can add the closest off-Strip properties like Tuscany, Hooters and Hard Rock. Which of these charge resort fees?

Quote: keypunch

I just contacted Bally's and there is no resort fee charged now or in the forceable future. Could not connect through the above link. Although I did find a site thta stated a $15 per night fee at Bally's.

Bally's will be charging a resort fee starting March 1st

Quote: Boz

Because my wife is a degenerate slot player, we pay for nothing at CZR properties and our host picks up everything, so this will not be an issue for us. But I can see why they are doing this. The ad campaign of no resort fees didnt really help them and if you look at TripAdvisor reviews, many people complain about the fee for internet. So why not join them and make the extra money.

A simple search of baggage fee income shows that the major airlines have made tens of millions of dollars off them and have not been hurt by Southwest not charging them. MGM is in the same boat and probably has not lost customers to CZR's just because of the fees.

When you are broke as Gary Loveman is, you need every dollar and I doubt they will lose any business over this.

In the end, the only person that gets screwed is the customer and the last place to care about them left Las Vegas in 1993.

I left MGM properties because of the resort fees so yes MGM did lose customers over resort fees.

Quote: Isitingood

I left MGM properties because of the resort fees so yes MGM did lose customers over resort fees.

Any fee that is automagically applied by the computer to your bill, can just as easily be removed, IF YOU ARE BRAVE ENOUGH TO MARCH INTO THE HOST'S OFFICE AND ASK.

The airlines that don't charge baggage fees like Southwest and Spirit, I am not sure the industry term, but I call it party seating, where there is no assigned seat and there is a free for all upon boarding the plane. When I fly, I prefer a window seat. If an airline could allow me that privilege without a baggage fee, that would earn my business, provided I could access them out of O'Hare and not go all the way down to Midway.

Quote: tringlomane

I have read several times times that it worked for others at MGM/LVS properties, but who knows with CET. Unfortunately I am sorta stuck staying there for awhile due to Reward Credits on my card I need to eventually use. After I burn those off, will definitely consider the cheaper end of MGM properties.

You also didn't answer my question...what place left town in 1993 that cared about the customer?

The $20 trick doesn't work on resort fees at MGM, my friends use only MGM hotels and they all have been told by the customer service rep that they are not allowed to waive resort fees

Quote: Nareed

It would be useful to compile a list of hotels that don't charge resort fees.

I know for a fact the 4 Queens doesn't. I think most other properties Downtown don't, either, but I'm not sure which ones.

For the Strip that leaves the non-CEt, non-MGM properties, which are few: Stratosphere, TI, CR, Cosmo, Venazzo and Wynncore (I think that's it). You can add the closest off-Strip properties like Tuscany, Hooters and Hard Rock. Which of these charge resort fees?

Golden Nugget,Golden Gate,LVH, El Cortez, Fremont,Gold Strike and South Point are some that don't charge resort fees.

Quote: Wizard

Yes, it is different. Passengers are not required to pay baggage fees if they don't have baggage. I would equate a resort fee to a baggage fee that was mandatory, baggage or no baggage.

Laugh all you want about that but it may come in some form. I think it is of was easyJet in Europe that charged everyone a "wheelchair fee." Said the wheelchairs cost money and it was discriminatory to charge only the disabled.

It is the same nonsense as when we had "pro-forma" profit numbers in the early 2000s. The hotels are saying,"well, look at the cheap rate I can quote when I don't mention all the things I actually charge you for."

I do see a truth in advertising reg in the future but it will take 10 years a d the practice will need to hit beyond Vegas. When a us senator gets hit with it then and only then will it be a "problem."

Quote: Isitingood

Golden Nugget,Golden Gate,LVH, El Cortez, Fremont,Gold Strike and South Point are some that don't charge resort fees.

Thank you.

Though I feel the need to add "...for now."

Quote: GH

Any fee that is automagically applied by the computer to your bill, can just as easily be removed, IF YOU ARE BRAVE ENOUGH TO MARCH INTO THE HOST'S OFFICE AND ASK.

No you're wrong! MGM tells you when you check in that you will be charged a resort fee so it's not auto applied.

Quote: AZDuffman

Laugh all you want about that but it may come in some form. I think it is of was easyJet in Europe that charged everyone a "wheelchair fee." Said the wheelchairs cost money and it was discriminatory to charge only the disabled.

So it's discriminatory to charge only the people who use a service for that service? That's a ridiculous policy.

Quote:

It is the same nonsense as when we had "pro-forma" profit numbers in the early 2000s. The hotels are saying,"well, look at the cheap rate I can quote when I don't mention all the things I actually charge you for."

I do see a truth in advertising reg in the future but it will take 10 years a d the practice will need to hit beyond Vegas. When a us senator gets hit with it then and only then will it be a "problem."

I know I'm in the minority, but as long as ALL costs are presented before finalizing the transaction, I don't have a problem with it.

Quote: Isitingood

No you're wrong! MGM tells you when you check in that you will be charged a resort fee so it's not auto applied.

If you never asked, then you are wrong -- The other weekend, I incurred a $22 fee at Aria. I simply walked into the Host's office and asked to have it removed. It was removed on the spot.

Quote: GH

If you never asked, then you are wrong -- The other weekend, I incurred a $22 fee at Aria. I simply walked into the Host's office and asked to have it removed. It was removed on the spot.

The other weekend huh? Well for one thing you didn't stay at Aria because Aria's resort fee is $25. And another thing is that resort fees are not auto applied like you said in your last post MGM tells you when you check in that the resort fee will be applied. Yes I have asked to have the resort fees waived MGM even charges a resort fee on comped rooms. My friends also have asked as well.

In most places, a patron can be refunded for hotel fees if they can prove that they didn't use the service/item in question. Hotel "safe fees" are a good example. I'd imagine that's why delivery of the daily newspaper is included in the resort fee at casinos. If you can't prove that you didn't use that one item, you can't talk your way out of the fee at all.

Quote: Isitingood

Yes I have asked to have the resort fees waived MGM even charges a resort fee on comped rooms. My friends also have asked as well.

Sounds like you and your friends are trying to ask/bribe the service reps at the hotel front desk. You should know that this is not comparable to asking a casino host to waive a fee, which is what GH did.

Quote: Isitingood

The other weekend huh? Well for one thing you didn't stay at Aria because Aria's resort fee is $25. And another thing is that resort fees are not auto applied like you said in your last post MGM tells you when you check in that the resort fee will be applied. Yes I have asked to have the resort fees waived MGM even charges a resort fee on comped rooms. My friends also have asked as well.

Aria Sky Suites adds $22 to your bill for use of the lounge area. That is the fee I was referring to. If your fee is $25, it's probably because of the extra "brown ink" they use to color your room keys :p

Quote: Caesars

Based on the current industry standards in the market and evaluation of the services our guests choose and use, a comprehensive package of bundled services and amenities proves to be the best and most meaningful value to our guests. This is in response to the increasing demand from our guests to provide a package price instead of the inconvenience of separate fees. We continue to do all we can to provide our guests with the best value, best products and best experiences in Las Vegas.

Yes, their customers were demanding a resort fee. Right.

Memo to Caesars: please stop insulting our intelligence.

Good. May keep poor people outta my way!

Quote: GH

Aria Sky Suites adds $22 to your bill for use of the lounge area. That is the fee I was referring to. If your fee is $25, it's probably because of the extra "brown ink" they use to color your room keys :p

I have stayed at the Aria Sky Suites and guess what they don't charge a resort fee if you stay in a sky suite! The Sky Suites are the exception so I don't know where you're getting this $22 from. you're paying anywhere from $700 to $7,000 a night so they should make an exception for that.

Quote: reno

Yes, their customers were demanding a resort fee. Right.

Memo to Caesars: please stop insulting our intelligence.

What I would prefer as a customer is to handle all my business in one transaction. I shouldn't have to book a trip with hotel and car if need be (transaction #1 and should be the need for further transactions) and then pay to check my bag (transaction #2, which used to be free), should not have to pay to have a meal on a 4 hour flight (transaction #3, which also used to be free) or at the end of my stay be charged resort fees for crap I never used or intend to use in the first place (transaction #4, which also used to be free)

Quote: reno

Yes, their customers were demanding a resort fee. Right.

Memo to Caesars: please stop insulting our intelligence.

Couldn't agree more, Yeah were demanding to be charged more.LOL

Quote: Isitingood

I have stayed at the Aria Sky Suites and guess what they don't charge a resort fee if you stay in a sky suite! The Sky Suites are the exception so I don't know where you're getting this $22 from. you're paying anywhere from $700 to $7,000 a night so they should make an exception for that.

The $22 was a new fee, that showed up in the last month. And no, I don't pay anything for the Sky Suite either.

A photo from a 2011 publicity stunt advertising No Resort Fees at Caesars properties:

Quote: reno

A photo from a 2011 publicity stunt advertising No Resort Fees at Caesars properties:

Now, I'll gladly pay a fee if some of that was included!

I kind of disagree here. Baggage is optional. Meals are optional. However, the resort fee is not.

Airlines should allow you to pay for your services up front. That is, you can buy your meal and your baggage in advance on a non-refundable basis, and offer a discount if booking in advance. Air Canada does this -- you pay less for checked bags and meals on the plane if you order them and pay for them in advance. On the plane, you give the FA a coupon for your meal. At the airport, your baggage allowance is indicated electronically by what you've paid for.

For casinos, the resort fee is ridiculous. It should be an all-in price save for truly optional selections, like parking.

The problem with doing this is the software involved in the booking engine to add the resort fee to the hotel price. Because it's a resort fee, its tax applicability is different -- the price of the resort fee is not subject to the hotel occupancy tax of 12% but is subject to the Nevada sales tax rate of 6%. It gets more complicated than that because the hosting website is paying a different rate for the room then what you pay and because the website is hosted out of state (or country), the tax question gets more complicated. Even though you might pay the same rate when booking as the hotel website, the seller is paying the hotel a different rate for your booking and pocketing the rest as profit.

Let's say you book the hotel through Expedia and it's $100 / night + taxes for a total of $112.
Expedia pays the hotel $70/night for the room, its own sales tax of $8.40 but must submit the other $3.60 in taxes it collects on behalf of the consumer.

If you add the resort fee of say $10/night, then the booking rate goes to $110/night + taxes for a toal of $122.60. The tax rate for the seller becomes difficult to calculate in its booking engines, which is why the resort fees are added by the hotel and not the websites that sell the rooms.

Resort fees are assessed because the hotel pays 6% less in taxes on the resort fees and can charge every consumer (including its comped ones) the resort fee, which generates a great deal of revenue. As well, since other hotels charge the fee, CZR is at a competitive disadvantage. In addition, when you consider the way that TR is structured, a great many of its hotel rooms outside of Caesar's Palace and Paris are greatly discounted to begin with.

Consider Caesar's Palace with its 4,000 rooms at 90% occupancy at $15/day for its resort fee. Kaching, that's $20,000,000. And even if you lower the room rate by $20/day, the hotel is still saving $120,000 in taxes due to the difference in tax rates.

So the motivation is clear: profit. It's something that CZR desparately needs.

deleted

Quote: GH

The $22 was a new fee, that showed up in the last month. And no, I don't pay anything for the Sky Suite either.

My friend is staying in a Sky Suite for March Madness so we will see if he's charged $22.

Quote: boymimbo

Because it's a resort fee, its tax applicability is different -- the price of the resort fee is not subject to the hotel occupancy tax of 12% but is subject to the Nevada sales tax rate of 6%.

Are you positive that Caesars is going to apply the sales tax rate to resort fees? If so, that is not a uniform practice at all casino-hotels in Vegas. I stayed at Palace Station last year around the time of the G2E, where the daily resort fee was $14.99 and I was charged the 12% tax rate on it ($14.99 * 1.12 = $16.79):

It gets tricky.

Clark county has a link=[http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/Depts/business_license/Documents/Gen'l%20Info%20Guide%20for%20TLEs%20Jan%202012.pdf]"General Information Guide for Transient Lodging Establishment" where it lists the types of services that is not "Rent". Basically, if it is rent, then it is subject to the tax rate.

Basically, if it's "Not mandatory for room rental" then the item is "not rent" and would be taxed at a sales tax rate. Some items that are "non-rent" are:

"Concierge fee", "Dry Cleaning/Laundry", "Equipment Rental/not in room", "Ground Transportation/Transfer", "Internet Access Fee (not mandatory with room rental", "parking fee".

The recipients of the tax for Resort hotels are as follows: 5% to the LVCVA, 2% to Nevada Tourism/School District Fund, 1% to the local transportation district, 1% to the county general fund, and 3% to State education.

Quote: Wizard

Resort fees. 6 to 5 blackjack. Two companies that control most of the Strip. Things are not moving in the right direction for Vegas.

Gamblers will continue to clean themselves out, but as the casinos become, or are socially pushed to become, popular, such gamblers will be forced to begin to really admit it.

Quote: Lexinger

Gamblers will continue to clean themselves out, but as the casinos become, or are socially pushed to become, popular, such gamblers will be forced to begin to really admit it.

I seriously doubt that. To most gamblers denial is a river in Africa.