EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 5:57:26 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

he claimed that no repeat guest was a net winner in his casino, at least that he was aware of.



That he was aware of. Like he would be told by his staff if there were any consistent winners. Steve would point to the 5 foot stack of job applications on his desk and say 'Really? Guess what?'
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 6:15:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I hate to give Jerry this ammunition, but when Steve Wynn was on 60 Minutes he claimed that no repeat guest was a net winner in his casino, at least that he was aware of. I would claim he doesn't personally know about the advantage players who patronize his property. Also, the Wynn used to be 9-6 Jacks heaven, with machines all over the place with that pay table, at the $1 denom and up. Now they only have them at $5 and up only.



But how would you respond to Jerry's allegation that there is no such thing as a positive EV video poker machine? He calls it "common sense" to say that. Would you agree? (Since he persists in making ad hominem attacks against me to try to make his point, I thought I might solicit the opinion of someone who he presumably would respect.)

Steve Wynn's claim is nutso, because in the course of tens of millions of guests, at least SOME of those players must be ahead, even if all they did was play severely negative expectation games. Heck, some keno players are ahead for their lifetimes, and that would include some keno players who only play at the Wynn.

Wynn's 9/6 JOB rarely equated to a positive EV game, because only under certain circumstances was the return on the slot club 0.5% or better. However, one instance would have been a couple of years ago--you got $10 (minimum) for signing up for the Red Card, and then 900 points ($900 coin-in) would get you two dinner buffets. At JOB, this would cost you about $4.25, so for that amount, you got an up-front $10, then two buffets worth $35 each. If that isn't advantage play, I don't know what is. Of course, Steve-O doesn't necessarily know about life down in the trenches; not any more, anyway.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 6:20:40 PM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

You're a man in denial mkl. If theory was in fact reality, you'd be saying that because the game I'm going to play is theoretically a 101%'er, if I run $100k through it I will ABSOLUTELY walk out with $101,000.

The short term means everything



That is as silly as saying that no one who places a $100 roulette bet is going to lose exactly $5.26. True, but so what? In any case, I never said that--I said that your results, OVER TIME, will APPROACH THE MEAN. I truly think that you don't understand this, so I'll leave off trying to explain it. Perhaps the Wiz could explain it to you in terms you could understand--but that would only happen if you were prepared to listen.

People to whom the short term means everything party until dawn when the stock market goes up 100 points on Monday and then fling themselves out a tenth-story window when the market goes down 100 points on Tuesday.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
Joined: Jun 28, 2010
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November 15th, 2010 at 8:26:06 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I hate to give Jerry this ammunition, but when Steve Wynn was on 60 Minutes he claimed that no repeat guest was a net winner in his casino, at least that he was aware of. I would claim he doesn't personally know about the advantage players who patronize his property. Also, the Wynn used to be 9-6 Jacks heaven, with machines all over the place with that pay table, at the $1 denom and up. Now they only have them at $5 and up only.



Well you know what a bad player I am, and I've both won there at least 3 times and am ahead at least $7000 since they opened. Plus I've used probably around $3000 worth of comps (hotel, food, & show). I don't think he has much of an idea about the vp peons, AP or not, period. He also shows his ignorance by not comping them drinks at his vp bars (even $10 players) and that's why I'm still ahead there because I won't go in any more until he changes that.
gofaster87
gofaster87
Joined: Mar 19, 2011
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May 22nd, 2011 at 10:04:52 AM permalink
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