How should casinos be reformed?

There's the age-old question of how to balance the freedoms of those who want to responsibly engage in something dangerous (e.g. drinking, firearms, driving, drugs, gambling) while protecting those who could be hurt by it (e.g. death, injury, illness, financial loss).

At one extreme (prohibition, or excessive regulation), people complain that their rights are being infringed. On the other extreme (no or minimal regulation), then a lot of people get hurt. So, we either got freedoms or an absence of harms, we can't have both. Usually, the compromise by governments has been to shoot for the middle: allow the risky behavior, but put in a whole bunch of safeguards to curb the most serious problems. For example, you can drink, but you have to be at least 21 and you can't drive drunk, you can take opioids but you have to have a prescription, etc.

With gambling, we're on the extreme of almost no regulation, which means a lot of people get hurt. If you drink too much the bar has an obligation to cut you off. But you can gamble away your life savings in a couple hours and the casino will happily let you do so. I know there's often no sympathy for addicted gamblers, but remember that there are plenty of innocent third parties. (Think the family left behind when the father kills himself over gambling debt, the kids who don't get to go to college when a parent blows their savings, the small businesses that go bankrupt when an employee embezzles funds to support a gambling habit.)

With that in mind, I've been compiling a list of suggested casino reforms. It's more of a thought experiment because most of these will probably never get implemented in most jurisdictions, but some areas (like the U.K. and Australia) are putting in more player protections, so maybe we'll get lucky and reforms will spread wider.

Naysayers who say that these reforms won't stop problem gambling and won't protect everyone are missing the point. The point is not to eliminate the harms, that's not possible. The point is to *reduce* the harms. As I said in the intro, it's all about balance. Between the extremes of excessive regulation and no regulation, there's a sweet spot that balances freedoms against harm reduction, and right now, we're skewed far towards harm reduction. After all, drunk driving laws haven't eliminated drunk driving, but tossing those laws because they're supposedly ineffective would be foolish.

What other reasonable reforms would reduce problem gambling and increase transparency for players?

What's next? Should the casino monitor alcohol levels before allowing someone to gamble? At some point, one must recognize it is the person with a gambling problem, not the casino. It truly sux that some people have little self-control, but that is their problem, not mine or the casino.
I don't look at personal irresponsibility and blame others.

I glanced at the page, but maybe will read through it later. The problem gambling warning in casinos should be supplemented with a warning that "if someone starts to feel they are having a problem with controlling their gambling, to consider taking up another activity right there and then. It's not going to get easier to quit later. That's their best chance.

It's less useful to wait until they're well sunk into the habit.

I ended up smoking cigarettes for 10 years, but I had awareness in the beginning when I could tell it was getting out of control I should have paid attention to it then.

I think mandatory players cards and ID would only make it worse. Technology in general makes it worse. It gives the casino a lot of data they can exploit, it gives the player questionable goals they can seek, and it makes a trip to the casino a less human experience. How about going back to just a dealer with a deck of cards, or a pair of dice, or a wheel?

Thinking outside the box: what causes compulsive gambling? What is that person looking for? Despite being an AP, I feel everything a CG feels at the casino. The difference is I do not let those feelings affect any decision I make, or action I take. AP is an applied case of Stoicism, and at least conditional adherence to the principles of Zeno and Marcus Aurelius is necessary. Not everyone is a Stoic and not everyone should be. So to reach outside of my own world, what is that gambler feeling?

Here's when it struck me- violence! Vengeance, and vindication! When somebody kicks you, spits in your face and all that, only one thing can make it right and there is no substitute for it- F him up! I was playing a VP promo and having a horrible time of it. A couple of SD down the toilet, digging deep into the playing stake. I felt bullied, downtrodden, perhaps even forsaken by God. Now as a Stoic/AP I know better than to react to such feelings and continued with my +EV play. Then I hit a jackpot!

And I recognized the feeling- it was exactly the same feeling when I was a young guy with some very brutal attitudes and hospitalized someone who who had been treating me quite badly. Vengeance, and vindication. God blessed me with victory in battle! What could be better than that? And that feeling is what the compulsive gambler is looking for, and that's what the casino exploits. The way the games pay you usually end up down very quickly, and you have to fight for your vindication, and the only way to do that is to bet more and faster. Unless you think of a worse way, like Paddock did.

Making a trip to the casino a more dignifying experience in itself will reduce the need for a gambler to seek dignity in other, counterproductive ways. When I get my martini poured from a bottle and served in a martini glass, instead of rail booze in a plastic cup, I feel that I am being dignified. When Dean and Sammy are the entertainment tonight, instead of "DJ Urban DK" I feel that I am being dignified. When I am served a real meal at 4 AM instead of prefab food that would cause a riot in prison, I feel that I am being dignified. And so does everyone else. But when you get panhandled at the table, meet employees with DMV attitudes, inconvenienced for the convenience of the help, you feel like you're being treated like gum on someone's shoe, and chasing that big win might be the only way you think you have to get your dignity back.

It might be intentional. The cheapening and coarsening of comps and amenities seen over the past years might not just be financial cheapness, but an attempt at "negging" the players. That term is used in modern "how to pick up girls" manuals, and it is the tactic of insulting and belittling the girl, in order to make her feel like she has to prove her worth to you, and according to the theory she will do that by spreading. (It actually does work, but you only get the dregs that way, and only the dregs of males need to resort to that.) Transferring that to the casino world, they might be trying to make you feel like a loser in every interaction with you so that you need to keep playing to prove that you're not. Not sure what to do about it. The market might have to solve this problem.

How about starting with regulating Casino's Predatory behavior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c8yxiXpgeU

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.
link to original post

Apparently there is a casino somewhere in Las Vegas That is invite only The gest is they selectively invite
people so they can study them and figure out ways to take advantage of behaviors governed by primal
instinct.

Basically The same as when they train animals (Rats) to perform a task based on positive or negative
feedback.

This invite only Casino is just a facility to study human behavior so they can take advantage of the data and create
addicts.

Its worth 13min Mr. Jay

Quote: rainman

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.
link to original post

Apparently there is a casino somewhere in Las Vegas That is invite only The gest is they selectively invite
people so they can study them and figure out ways to take advantage of behaviors governed by primal
instinct.

Basically The same as when they train animals (Rats) to perform a task based on positive or negative
feedback.

This invite only Casino is just a facility to study human behavior so they can take advantage of the data and create
addicts.

Its worth 13min Mr. Jay
link to original post

I’ve heard someone talking about that before. It had to be about 10 years ago though, because I was still living in Vegas. I don’t know what its purpose was, because it wasn’t really explained in any detail. I mean, it might have been something different, but sounds like the same thing.

Quote: rxwine

Quote: rainman

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.
link to original post

Apparently there is a casino somewhere in Las Vegas That is invite only The gest is they selectively invite
people so they can study them and figure out ways to take advantage of behaviors governed by primal
instinct.

Basically The same as when they train animals (Rats) to perform a task based on positive or negative
feedback.

This invite only Casino is just a facility to study human behavior so they can take advantage of the data and create
addicts.

Its worth 13min Mr. Jay
link to original post

I’ve heard someone talking about that before. It had to be about 10 years ago though, because I was still living in Vegas. I don’t know what its purpose was, because it wasn’t really explained in any detail. I mean, it might have been something different, but sounds like the same thing.
link to original post

My assumption is that it is referring to the UNLV Gaming Institute that does studies and training of gamblers. The problem is that I don't believe they allow real money gambling,

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Quote: rainman

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.
link to original post

Apparently there is a casino somewhere in Las Vegas That is invite only The gest is they selectively invite
people so they can study them and figure out ways to take advantage of behaviors governed by primal
instinct.

Basically The same as when they train animals (Rats) to perform a task based on positive or negative
feedback.

This invite only Casino is just a facility to study human behavior so they can take advantage of the data and create
addicts.

Its worth 13min Mr. Jay
link to original post

I’ve heard someone talking about that before. It had to be about 10 years ago though, because I was still living in Vegas. I don’t know what its purpose was, because it wasn’t really explained in any detail. I mean, it might have been something different, but sounds like the same thing.
link to original post

My assumption is that it is referring to the UNLV Gaming Institute that does studies and training of gamblers. The problem is that I don't believe they allow real money gambling,
link to original post

It could be, however it doesn't sound like and if it was I believe he would reference it as UNLV

Quote: rainman

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Quote: rainman

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.
link to original post

Apparently there is a casino somewhere in Las Vegas That is invite only The gest is they selectively invite
people so they can study them and figure out ways to take advantage of behaviors governed by primal
instinct.

Basically The same as when they train animals (Rats) to perform a task based on positive or negative
feedback.

This invite only Casino is just a facility to study human behavior so they can take advantage of the data and create
addicts.

Its worth 13min Mr. Jay
link to original post

I’ve heard someone talking about that before. It had to be about 10 years ago though, because I was still living in Vegas. I don’t know what its purpose was, because it wasn’t really explained in any detail. I mean, it might have been something different, but sounds like the same thing.
link to original post

My assumption is that it is referring to the UNLV Gaming Institute that does studies and training of gamblers. The problem is that I don't believe they allow real money gambling,
link to original post

It could be, however it doesn't sound like and if it was I believe he would reference it as UNLV
link to original post

And my assumption is that fevered Youtuber dudes are often very likely to be full of crap, pissing into the wind online for Youtrash views with absolutely no clue what they're yapping about. Nevada (like most jurisdictions) does not allow private "invite only" gaming, unless they are 'gambling' it up in the joint with Monopoly money:

Quote: Nevada Gaming Commission - Nevada Gaming Control Board

Public Policy of the State Concerning Gaming
(NRS 463.0129)
The State's public policy concerning gaming, in part, is as follows:

The legislature hereby finds, and declares to be the public policy of this state, that:

...<SNIP>...

...all gaming establishments in this state must remain open to the general public and the access of the general public to gaming activities must not be restricted in any manner except as provided by the legislature.

[bolded emphasis added]

https://gaming.nv.gov/regs/about/#:~:text=To%20ensure%20that%20gaming%20is,as%20provided%20by%20the%20legislature.

Quote: DrawingDead

Quote: rainman

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Quote: rainman

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Maybe you'd care to summarize? I'm afraid I don't have time to watch every 13-minute video someone points me to.
link to original post

Apparently there is a casino somewhere in Las Vegas That is invite only The gest is they selectively invite
people so they can study them and figure out ways to take advantage of behaviors governed by primal
instinct.

Basically The same as when they train animals (Rats) to perform a task based on positive or negative
feedback.

This invite only Casino is just a facility to study human behavior so they can take advantage of the data and create
addicts.

Its worth 13min Mr. Jay
link to original post

I’ve heard someone talking about that before. It had to be about 10 years ago though, because I was still living in Vegas. I don’t know what its purpose was, because it wasn’t really explained in any detail. I mean, it might have been something different, but sounds like the same thing.
link to original post

My assumption is that it is referring to the UNLV Gaming Institute that does studies and training of gamblers. The problem is that I don't believe they allow real money gambling,
link to original post

It could be, however it doesn't sound like and if it was I believe he would reference it as UNLV
link to original post

And my assumption is that fevered Youtuber dudes are often very likely to be full of crap, pissing into the wind online for Youtrash views with absolutely no clue what they're yapping about. Nevada (like most jurisdictions) does not allow private "invite only" gaming, unless they are 'gambling' it up in the joint with Monopoly money:

Quote: Nevada Gaming Commission - Nevada Gaming Control Board

Public Policy of the State Concerning Gaming
(NRS 463.0129)
The State's public policy concerning gaming, in part, is as follows:

The legislature hereby finds, and declares to be the public policy of this state, that:

...<SNIP>...

...all gaming establishments in this state must remain open to the general public and the access of the general public to gaming activities must not be restricted in any manner except as provided by the legislature.

[bolded emphasis added]

https://gaming.nv.gov/regs/about/#:~:text=To%20ensure%20that%20gaming%20is,as%20provided%20by%20the%20legislature.
link to original post

Professor, best selling author Has done speaking engagements at NASA, Dallas Cowboys, MGM Resorts,
US Department of energy etc... etc... Definitely doesn't seem to be another fevered Youtuber whatever that means.

It's a research center you get invited to it to be part of the study (payed maybe) it's not for revenue generation.
The fevered youtuber states over 70 plus entity's fund it.

Way short on details. I'm supposed to report a rumor? The point of my article is to address how to reform ACTUAL casinos, based on their ACTUAL practices, not some mythical casino based on what they SUPPOSEDLY do.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Way short on details. I'm supposed to report a rumor? The point of my article is to address how to reform ACTUAL casinos, based on their ACTUAL practices, not some mythical casino based on what they SUPPOSEDLY do.
link to original post

You asked this.
"What other reasonable reforms would reduce problem gambling and increase transparency for players?"

I answered this.
How about starting with regulating Casino's Predatory behavior.

Then I tossed in a lead for you a direction to follow.
I had no Idea you wanted me to do all the investigative work for you and your article.
I have my own work to do.

Quote: rainman

(1) How about starting with regulating Casino's Predatory behavior.
(2) Then I tossed in a lead for you a direction to follow.
(3) I had no Idea you wanted me to do all the investigative work for you and your article.

Each of your statements is complete and utter B.S.:

(1) You never identified exactly WHAT kind of predatory behavior you think casinos are engaging in that you think could and should be regulated, that is not already in my article. It's a stupid suggestion anyway, because I basically ask, "How can we regulate casinos' predatory behavior?", and you reply, "How about starting with casinos' predatory behavior?"

(And if you were about to complain that that wasn't the EXACT question I asked, then congratulate yourself on missing the point, because that is EXACTLY what I described.)

(2) Two random guys talking on video about some mythical casino is not a "lead". It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

(3) There is nothing to investigate.

I can't think of any reforms that the casino industry in Nevada needs. I would say casino floor staff need more training and understanding of Gaming regulations.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: rainman

(1) How about starting with regulating Casino's Predatory behavior.
(2) Then I tossed in a lead for you a direction to follow.
(3) I had no Idea you wanted me to do all the investigative work for you and your article.

Each of your statements is complete and utter B.S.:

(1) You never identified exactly WHAT kind of predatory behavior you think casinos are engaging in that you think could and should be regulated, that is not already in my article. It's a stupid suggestion anyway, because I basically ask, "How can we regulate casinos' predatory behavior?", and you reply, "How about starting with casinos' predatory behavior?"

(And if you were about to complain that that wasn't the EXACT question I asked, then congratulate yourself on missing the point, because that is EXACTLY what I described.)

(2) Two random guys talking on video about some mythical casino is not a "lead". It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

(3) There is nothing to investigate.
link to original post

A simple thank you would have been nice. You asked for help, and then proclaimed you didn't have time to be watching the videos you requested. I'm sure Rainman will never waste your time again.

Ease up, it was a good question, but a convoluted one and I didn't exactly address it in my earlier pontification either.

Consider this: what's stopping me from betting everything I own on, say, one hand of craps?

What's stopping me from "investing" everything I own on some garbage OTC stock?

It's almost the same thing, except I have a much better chance profiting at the craps table. The biggest difference is in how we've been taught to see it. We see the craps game as something originally done against a wall in an alley by guys ready to pull out switchblades, and the stock transaction as something done by respectable wearers of suits in offices. While IPOs and options require you to be a "qualified investor" (i.e., already rich) that policy has two purposes: one is protecting the poor from risk, the other is excluding the poor from a share of the profit. There is no rule preventing anyone from buying a million shares of DIAGF (OTC:BB).

Protecting people from financial risk without their consent (in things like self-exclusion programs) opens up too big of a can of worms and we are not willing to follow those worms to a logically consistent conclusion.

Is it better to allow a person to borrow money at 1400% APR or to allow them to be evicted?

My first job as a bar manager, we had a long-time customer who was diagnosed with liver failure and complications from excess drinking. One of my first acts was to ban him for his good. He shifted to another bar, and then another when he wore out his welcome. His son approached me and begged me to allow his dad back in. He was determined to drink himself to death, and it would be better if he could do it among friends. After lengthy discussions with my owner, some customers, and even our priest, we let him back in, and he died a happy drunk.

One simple thing would be a mandatory timeout. Can't sit at a table, push buttons, or roll dice for more than two hours straight. This could be enforced by dealer rotation, mandatory player card pull and five minute pause, etc. Just enough to make someone stop and think before continuing.

Quote: calwatch

One simple thing would be a mandatory timeout. Can't sit at a table, push buttons, or roll dice for more than two hours straight. This could be enforced by dealer rotation, mandatory player card pull and five minute pause, etc. Just enough to make someone stop and think before continuing.
link to original post

Or we could allow adults to be adults. People who have a problem with gambling can put themselves on the self-exclusion list. The rest of us who are responsible do not need your help.

I can't win a million dollars when you cripple the industry like that.

reform : zero advertisement policy. Not a single advertisement. No streamers, nothing. You already have all of the power once that person walks into the casino to begin with.

Quote: heatmap

reform : zero advertisement policy. Not a single advertisement. No streamers, nothing. You already have all of the power once that person walks into the casino to begin with.
link to original post

The no streamers is ridiculous unless we want to ban free speech.

Quote: DRich

Quote: heatmap

reform : zero advertisement policy. Not a single advertisement. No streamers, nothing. You already have all of the power once that person walks into the casino to begin with.
link to original post

The no streamers is ridiculous unless we want to ban free speech.
link to original post

Don't most B&M casinos already prohibit recordings anyways? Banning streaming is a direct extension (I doubt streaming was even considered back when the recording policies were implemented) and would take no adjustments other than enforcement of existing policies.

Quote: Venthus

Don't most B&M casinos already prohibit recordings anyways?
link to original post

(truncated!)

This old standard rule has been revised by just about every casino I've visited in the last 8 years.

The general practice now seems to be "don't show other's faces (without their consent) in your video".

I find the notion of limits on gambling advertising interesting, but problematic. I think that if implemented, we'll see advertisements for the hotel, the spa, and the restaurants... just not the gaming. Somehow, this will be technically compliant, and permissible.

Bans on marketing and promotion are likely to end up as one of those things where the cure is worse than the disease. Once you commit yourself to enforcing something, you often end up having to dig harder and deeper into censorious and authoritarian behavior to enforce it, and often just to save face.

An odd analogy is laws against certain sexual acts between consenting adults in private. The investigatory and enforcement actions you would have to take to implement them would be more obnoxious than any possible sexual act between consenting adults in private. It would have to be something not consensual, not adult, or not private for there to be any will to enact such laws and all that would come with them.

When it comes to a credit customer like me the casinos do a lot of checking before issuing the credit.

https://www.truepassage.com/forums/showthread.php/12008-Credit-Lines-for-casino-play-how-to-get-a-casino-credit-line?p=40995#post40995

They check Central Credit regularly to make sure no markers are unpaid over 90 days. Then they do at least an annual soft personal credit check and annual bank account check.

So you might say that the casinos do police the ongoing wherewithal of some of their biggest customers to make sure they may still afford that level of play. And many hosts will advise players not to up their credit lines so that they don’t get themselves in trouble.

But I can’t see how a casino could police cash players other than in AML terms. How can you know if a cash player is playing with disposable income or blood money?

The players I feel sorry for are the ones standing at the cage to get cash out of their debit or credit cards. Especially their credit cards. I assume must be at a high rate of interest and high advance fee at both ends - with both the casino and the bank charging. I think if you’re playing beyond what you planned to play that day and need to hit your bank for more, especially via a credit card, you’re not playing in a controlled manner and maybe beyond your means. One reform that could be implemented is for the casinos and banks to together prohibit any way to get gaming tokens out of credit cards.

The $45 fee on a $1000 cash advance on a credit card was too much 30 years ago.

But I'm kind of wondering what would happen if banks suddenly reduced everybody's credit limit to $1 overnight, like this week.

Quote: Dieter

This old standard rule has been revised by just about every casino I've visited in the last 8 years.

The general practice now seems to be "don't show other's faces (without their consent) in your video".

There are still casinos which are aggressive about banning continuous filming. South Point and Wynn/Encore come to mind. Fontainebleau recently withdrew permission for continuous streaming or filming. There is little one can do about filming draws with a handheld camera, but they can certainly tell people to stop if they have the tripod out. For some of these streams, when Vegas Matt, BigKats, or another big channel is around, they can attract a crowd of a dozen people watching, all of whom are not playing, so that has got to be annoying, although in Vegas Matt's case he may draw more people to the property hoping to see him than turn people away who want to play the slot machine next to him.

Quote: DRich

Quote: heatmap

reform : zero advertisement policy. Not a single advertisement. No streamers, nothing. You already have all of the power once that person walks into the casino to begin with.
link to original post

The no streamers is ridiculous unless we want to ban free speech.
link to original post

This is an interesting suggestion. Most cigarette ads haven't been allowed since 1971, so there's certainly precedent. I tend to side with DRich, though, that streamers (independent content producers) are not the casinos/sportsbooks themselves, and their streams don't really count as advertising. As a parallel, cigarette ads are banned, but actors can smoke.

Anyway, I added this reform idea to the article. While I was at it, I mentioned that this should apply to state-run lotteries as well (or even better, governments shouldn't be in the business of providing gambling opportunities in the first place).

Quote: calwatch

Quote: Dieter

This old standard rule has been revised by just about every casino I've visited in the last 8 years.

The general practice now seems to be "don't show other's faces (without their consent) in your video".

There are still casinos which are aggressive about banning continuous filming. South Point and Wynn/Encore come to mind. Fontainebleau recently withdrew permission for continuous streaming or filming. There is little one can do about filming draws with a handheld camera, but they can certainly tell people to stop if they have the tripod out. For some of these streams, when Vegas Matt, BigKats, or another big channel is around, they can attract a crowd of a dozen people watching, all of whom are not playing, so that has got to be annoying, although in Vegas Matt's case he may draw more people to the property hoping to see him than turn people away who want to play the slot machine next to him.
link to original post

Indeed. Many places leave the sign by the door about no video or photo without permission, and just ignore the folks who aren't making a nuisance.

I believe I heard a rumor that Hard Rock Northern Indiana (Gary) is also strict about it, but that's not a place I stop so I can't confirm or deny.

Quote: MDawg

The players I feel sorry for are the ones standing at the cage to get cash out of their debit or credit cards. Especially their credit cards. I assume must be at a high rate of interest and high advance fee at both ends - with both the casino and the bank charging. I think if you’re playing beyond what you planned to play that day and need to hit your bank for more, especially via a credit card, you’re not playing in a controlled manner and maybe beyond your means. One reform that could be implemented is for the casinos and banks to together prohibit any way to get gaming tokens out of credit cards.
link to original post

That's a very good idea, I added it to the list in the article, thank you.

More sound absorbing material. If slot machines can be set to default to mid to low level sound once someone who turned up the volume leaves.

In fact, they should consult an acoustic engineer whenever they do renovations.

If there is some evidence a noisy casino keeps and attracts more customers, I'd rather they pipe in fake sound of crowds up to a certain decibel level. Then at least they can control the overall level.

I thought of another one: I remember reading an article about a woman who went to the grocery store intending to buy groceries, but then played the machines instead. "I came home with no food and no money. I'm so ashamed but I don't know how to stop."

Some gambling addicts might be able to keep themselves from going to the casino, but when the machines are dangled in front of them everywhere, it can be too hard to resist. So, my suggested reform is: Gambling machines only in casinos, not grocery stores, convenience stores, or gas stations.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I thought of another one: I remember reading an article about a woman who went to the grocery store intending to buy groceries, but then played the machines instead. "I came home with no food and no money. I'm so ashamed but I don't know how to stop."

Some gambling addicts might be able to keep themselves from going to the casino, but when the machines are dangled in front of them everywhere, it can be too hard to resist. So, my suggested reform is: Gambling machines only in casinos, not grocery stores, convenience stores, or gas stations.
link to original post

The local public might support that, but I suspect many local retailers would push back on it.

good list of suggestions

Self-exclusion and voluntary cooling off periods need to be broadened quite a lot and give as much power and flexibility to the individual as possible. I should be allowed to self-exclude for a day, week, year, lifetime, etc. I should be allowed to do it for one casino, one city, state, or country. I should be allowed to self-exclude only from betting but still go bowling or eat in a restaurant. The casinos definitely need to take accountability for letting those customers bet. Any direct marketing to them should be huge fines and quickly lead to loss of licenses.

Any customers signing up for a card need to be asked if they want to set daily / weekly / monthly loss limits. Once they've hit those, a slot screen and person (or just a person if it's at a table game) suggest taking a break and they get an immediate text message and follow up contact from someone outside the casino. And no more direct marketing to them for a period of time.

Going forward, a big issue is going to be online betting and betting apps. They should have posted limits that everyone gets. If they don't want to take more than $50 from winning customers, that's the posted limit. Then allow anyone to reach out to the operator and ask for higher limits. But if they don't ask, they can never bet more than that. How it works now is they have an internal protocol about the maximum a new customers can bet, like maybe $1000. But then anyone who wins gets cut to 5% of that, while players that show compulsive behaviors have their limits raised to 50-times of it

Quote: rxwine

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I thought of another one: I remember reading an article about a woman who went to the grocery store intending to buy groceries, but then played the machines instead. "I came home with no food and no money. I'm so ashamed but I don't know how to stop."

Some gambling addicts might be able to keep themselves from going to the casino, but when the machines are dangled in front of them everywhere, it can be too hard to resist. So, my suggested reform is: Gambling machines only in casinos, not grocery stores, convenience stores, or gas stations.
link to original post

The local public might support that, but I suspect many local retailers would push back on it.
link to original post

If you banned it from taverns about two thirds of all taverns in Nevada would close. Having worked in that industry for many years, the majority of their revenue comes from the machines.

Quote: TomG

Any customers signing up for a card need to be asked if they want to set daily / weekly / monthly loss limits. Once they've hit those, a slot screen and person (or just a person if it's at a table game) suggest taking a break and they get an immediate text message and follow up contact from someone outside the casino. And no more direct marketing to them for a period of time.

I think that is a great idea. Let the patron set the limit and the have the casinos enforce it. Of course, that comes back to requiring all players to have a players card which I am in favor of. The state of Missouri had a daily $200 loss limit for everyone for many years. Granted, people can find ways around it but at least it makes it harder for them.

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I thought of another one: I remember reading an article about a woman who went to the grocery store intending to buy groceries, but then played the machines instead. "I came home with no food and no money. I'm so ashamed but I don't know how to stop."

Some gambling addicts might be able to keep themselves from going to the casino, but when the machines are dangled in front of them everywhere, it can be too hard to resist. So, my suggested reform is: Gambling machines only in casinos, not grocery stores, convenience stores, or gas stations.
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The local public might support that, but I suspect many local retailers would push back on it.
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If you banned it from taverns about two thirds of all taverns in Nevada would close. Having worked in that industry for many years, the majority of their revenue comes from the machines.
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No, they would need to change their business model but bars in almost every other state manage to get by without gambling. Walk down Fremont Street and most of the newer bars don't have gambling. When my friends were opening The Brooklyn Bowl, everyone told them they needed to put in slots to succeed but they chose not too.
The Sand Dollar, Count Vamps and the Double Down are examples of bars that thrive with zero gambling revenue.

It can be optional. Customer doesn't have to do it. And it should be very easy to get around. Low barriers and slight nudges being better than no barriers and no intervention and they don't compromise making our own personal choices. It is also something specific that triggers the casino to become a partner with the customer in reducing harm, instead of the current state where they have no real guidelines about when to step in.

Quote: billryan

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I thought of another one: I remember reading an article about a woman who went to the grocery store intending to buy groceries, but then played the machines instead. "I came home with no food and no money. I'm so ashamed but I don't know how to stop."

Some gambling addicts might be able to keep themselves from going to the casino, but when the machines are dangled in front of them everywhere, it can be too hard to resist. So, my suggested reform is: Gambling machines only in casinos, not grocery stores, convenience stores, or gas stations.
link to original post

The local public might support that, but I suspect many local retailers would push back on it.
link to original post

If you banned it from taverns about two thirds of all taverns in Nevada would close. Having worked in that industry for many years, the majority of their revenue comes from the machines.
link to original post

No, they would need to change their business model but bars in almost every other state manage to get by without gambling. Walk down Fremont Street and most of the newer bars don't have gambling. When my friends were opening The Brooklyn Bowl, everyone told them they needed to put in slots to succeed but they chose not too.
The Sand Dollar, Count Vamps and the Double Down are examples of bars that thrive with zero gambling revenue.
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What you are missing is the density of taverns in Las Vegas. There are just way too many to survive. I stand by my assumption that the majority of them would go out of business.

Quote: MichaelBluejay

I thought of another one: I remember reading an article about a woman who went to the grocery store intending to buy groceries, but then played the machines instead. "I came home with no food and no money. I'm so ashamed but I don't know how to stop."

Some gambling addicts might be able to keep themselves from going to the casino, but when the machines are dangled in front of them everywhere, it can be too hard to resist. So, my suggested reform is: Gambling machines only in casinos, not grocery stores, convenience stores, or gas stations.
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Couple a three things on this.

I have known people who owned small businesses, bodega/deli type joints. Kind you have in a small office building. The machines were sometimes to often the only profit they made. Working in one of those buildings those places are a big thing.to have. Morning coffee. snacks, small lunch, other quick things. But the customer base is the building and only the building. Or maybe it is a small bar. Maybe a VFW/America Legion. Again, small but dedicated customer base. The machines can be what keeps the place in the black.

OTOH, I have seen people just keep feeding the machines. To the point that I see why machines got banned in the first place. Here in PA they are called "games of skill" but the only "skill" is pushing a button to move the reels a spot if there is a winner. Simply a very thinly disguised slot machine. At least video poker could be legit called a "skill" game. Kind of like a law saying whiskey has to be served in a coffee cup on Sunday.

In nearby WV they have "cafes." I have been told if there is are machines on premises they call it a "cafe." I am talking 80% of businesses in some very depressed areas. I can assure you that if not for the machines most of those buildings would be boarded up. There is more money in these kind of areas than we think, but the ways it gets spent are not like the suburbs I guess.

Thus it comes down to "do we need to save people from themselves?" I say "no." Here's the thing. In this kind of area, people do not see a way out. In most of society people figure they are at their level and they cannot move up. It's why they pay the lottery instead of putting the money aside. It's why they blow their EIC refund every February instead of saving it a few years to buy a decent car or even house. No matter what it is, this is how they will behave. If not machines it is going to go to booze, weed, lottery tickets, or something else.

Quote: AZDuffman

...

I have known people who owned small businesses, bodega/deli type joints. Kind you have in a small office building. The machines were sometimes to often the only profit they made. Working in one of those buildings those places are a big thing.to have. Morning coffee. snacks, small lunch, other quick things. But the customer base is the building and only the building. Or maybe it is a small bar. Maybe a VFW/America Legion. Again, small but dedicated customer base. The machines can be what keeps the place in the black....

That's an excellent point that has been overlooked- gaming can make facilities profitable, and thus keep their services available, which benefits the community in which they are located.

It struck me many years back, how many old acts from the 70s and 80s play the casino circuit, and that's really the only place you can go see them. Casinos are acting as conservatories for the arts and for the culture of older generations that are not particularly profitable to serve. That alone is enough to give them one positive role in society.

Maybe this principle can be exploited in some other way and gaming can be used to subsidize other desirable facilities and services. Like convert a casino to a college. The students all have to work a shift or two a week to pay their tuition, and the gaming revenue all goes to subsidize their education.

Here's one that will never happen: let you choose your own days to play bounce back, cash back during the whole month.etc,

Imagine how much gas and time is used with people driving back & forth,