Proposed Rule Change -- Respect the Ten Commandments of Gambling

Quote: EvenBob

Of course it does. It tells you WHEN to bet. It's
tells you WHAT to do. That's what a system does.
What do you think a system is?

Noun 1. Gambling System - a system of rules for placing bets that is believed to lead to winning

BS is nothing but rules, for placing bets, and
rules to give you the best chance of winning.
It's a perfect example of a system.

It's all about semantics. A method, a system,
a strategy, are all words that have about the
same meaning. The system pooh-pooher's
don't want BS called a system because it puts
it in with all other systems. It should be called
Basic Strategy System, that's what it is.

Isn't card counting a system? It tells you when
to bet and is referred to everywhere as a betting
system. Or is that a strategy too, for the system
pooh-pooher's.

Well yeah if you change the definition you gave sure it can match that definition.

The definition you gave was and I quote
"A betting strategy or betting system is a structured approach to gambling intended to counter the inherent house edge in casino and card games, by bookmakers in horse racing and sports betting, and other gambling situations. A successful strategy should increase the odds of winning in order to produce long term profits from a pursuit which under normal circumstances will only ever result in a long term loss."

BS does not do this BS does not attempt to counter the inherent house edge of the game, one of the main parts of the definition you gave, bs simply provides a method to get close to that inherent house edge.

I mean under the new definition sure its a system but then the word starts to lose all meaning. Basically any method of play then becomes a gambling system.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It does not tell you when or HOW to bet.

Dude your behind Bob is on his third redefinition. He called it a betting system and then when what you said was pointed out it he switched to talking about "gambling system" whatever that means and gave a definition I then pointed out BS still isn't a "gambling system" under that definition, so he changed the definition to any way one could possibly play a game.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

He should just stick with roulette anyway. It really shouldn't matter what someone calls it anyway. It doesn't affect my pay :-)

You have to go back to why he even mentioned it in the first place, he is trying get The wizard on a technicality.

He wants to also lump his bunk roulette system in with BS and try to legitimize it . He is upset people can freely talk abut BJ BS and he may not be free to talk about imaginary winning Roulette systems if he wants to.

To get to Mike's Commandments Of Gambling.....
All good, but they should be sins - because some or venial and some are Cardinal.....

Quote: Paigowdan

To get to Mike's Commandments Of Gambling.....
All good, but they should be sins - because some or venial and some are Cardinal.....

+1

Quote: EvenBob

Isn't basic strategy itself a 'betting system' for
BJ? Sure it is. It has rules just like a system
and tells you what to do to achieve your goal.
System, method, strategy, it's all the same thing.

I've waited long enuff...

The definition of the House Advantage in Blackjack is making the best decision offered to the "Player", or "Customer", or "Payer" under the initial situation of Player hand versus the Dealer's visible card. That set of decisions has the lowest House Advantage possible. Basic Strategy IS that "best decision" possible under all initial situations. It neither improves or reduces the House Advantage, it IS the House advantage. I could take that even further and state that the BS set of decisions are valid ONLY upon the first "initial situation" as dealt from the shoe (deck) of cards. Secondary decisions made after the initial ARE a system. as they take the Player hand as is and refers to the INITIAL chart of decisions, having no other offered set of rules. IOW, one does NOT see a BS chart entry for Three-Card Hard 16 versus Ten-value. What is mathematically calculated as best decision to make "should" prevail. And further, one does NOT see a chart entry for Hard 12 versus Dealer 3 when 12 rounds have been completed. This is all due to the changing composition of the shoe (deck) after the first initial decision has been made. Until the shoe is shuffled, all decisions made are based upon a dependent trial, that Basic Strategy DOES NOT cover.

Quote: FinsRule

I vote disagree:

#9 - Thou shalt not make side bets - This is the one that causes the biggest problem. We have people on this site who design side bets. Any time someone posts about a side bet, they will be banned? This could be an issue.
#10 - Good gambling etiquette - GOOD

The problem is that the "commandments" are a mixture of mathematically good bet rules and socially good betting rules.

Don't make side bets would annoy those who design such bets, those where merely discuss the math behind them, those who recommend playing at a table that offers them even though they themselves will abstain. Some people like the excitement of side bets, thank you, even with the premiums they are paying.

Good etiquette is debatable. Though shall not smoke or though shall not blow smoke directly into dealer's face?

Quote: FleaStiff

The problem is that the "commandments" are a mixture of mathematically good bet rules and socially good betting rules.

Don't make side bets would annoy those who design such bets, those where merely discuss the math behind them, those who recommend playing at a table that offers them even though they themselves will abstain. Some people like the excitement of side bets, thank you, even with the premiums they are paying.

Good etiquette is debatable. Though shall not smoke or though shall not blow smoke directly into dealer's face?

Let's also remember that there are side bets that are countable and can be beaten. Lucky Ladies anyone?

Quote: 98Clubs

Secondary decisions made after the initial ARE a system..

The whole thing is a system for keeping
the player near the lowest HE possible.
In gambling, strategy-method-system
are so close in meaning they're inter-
changeable. If it has rules to help you
do better than a player without the rules,
it's a system.

Quote: EvenBob

The whole thing is a system for keeping
the player near the lowest HE possible.
In gambling, strategy-method-system
are so close in meaning they're inter-
changeable. If it has rules to help you
do better than a player without the rules,
it's a system.

That is meaningless though since what is the baseline you are measuring with. Is betting the don't a "system" for craps you are playing with a lower house edge than someone playing the do. Hell is betting a random number a system in roulette since you are getting a lower house edge then someone betting first five. Both of these are rules that lower the house edge compared to some other bets to be made but it would be silly to call them systems. Hell you could argue playing the plainest high limit slot you can find is a system since it has lower HE then a penny slot with all the bells and whistles. What I'm getting at is if you use your definition then every bet made in a casino is a system assuming you are not happening to literally be playing the worst game in the casino.

I mean under your definition a system can be defined as "I don't play pen and paper keno". No one in their right mind would want to call that a system yet it reduces the house edge below that experienced by people who don't follow that rule.

Congratulations Bob for sucking them all into a meaningless debate once again.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Congratulations Bob for sucking them all into a meaningless debate once again.

Seems meaningless, but in fact it proves the proposed ruling is not applicable.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Congratulations Bob for sucking them all into a meaningless debate once again.

Not meaningless to me, I've been saying
it for years. Anything you use to tell you
how or when or how much to bet is a
gambling system. There's no way around
it. BS is considered above all that because
it's 'special'. No, it's not.

Quote: AxelWolf

Are you arguing over the definition of a word? Or are you arguing that continually talking about a betting system should not be cause for a suspension, or talking about BS BJ should be meet with the same consequences?

He's arguing to argue, it's what he does. Just stop responding to his posts. I'm reminded of a quote about wrestling with pigs...

More rules? ugh

If you're an AP, you would violate some of those rules because they don't apply. If you're not an AP, you would violate some of those rules because otherwise you wouldn't gamble. More red tape. The only thing the rule would change is the explanation the board receives as to why someone got suspended; and probably cause a spike in suspensions dealt out by lower mods for about a month.