JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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October 7th, 2016 at 3:10:04 PM permalink
Describes Shilling for Chinese High-Rollers to avoid compliance with Cash record policies.

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-vegas-shell/

Interesting read and allegations.
All around me are familiar faces / Worn out places, worn out faces / Bright and early for their daily races / Going nowhere, going nowhere - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCLnwIkkps
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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October 7th, 2016 at 4:02:47 PM permalink
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-vegas-shell/

I want that job "housekeeping" by day, shill by night for $3,000 in tips, then years later, they come after me for a fantasy debt of six million. It would be common sense they didn't actually get to keep the tips completely though. Probably had kickbacks to pay someone. Otherwise, the leaders would hire relatives, girlfriends, friends, etc., and maybe they were.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker. Hold my beer.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 8th, 2016 at 2:20:00 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-vegas-shell/

I want that job "housekeeping" by day, shill by night for $3,000 in tips, then years later, they come after me for a fantasy debt of six million. It would be common sense they didn't actually get to keep the tips completely though. Probably had kickbacks to pay someone. Otherwise, the leaders would hire relatives, girlfriends, friends, etc., and maybe they were.

Sure they could've kept all their tips. I think the "Junket guy" was the one who originally recruited the shills. He's making enough money(a percentage of their losses or some formula) for bringing in the high rollers in and even hosting them at his houses.

As I told Dan before casinos knowingly and purposely break the laws daily.

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I wonder if some clever chinese are taking advantage of this situation. Sounds like there's a potential too make some FU money.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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October 8th, 2016 at 3:40:53 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I want that job "housekeeping" by day, shill by night for $3,000 in tips

who says the money didn't have strings attached? You might have to drop your drawers LOL
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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October 8th, 2016 at 4:11:01 AM permalink
This article, in two parts, is well informed about casino credit, unusual for a journalist. Normally I see them slavishly repeat the casino line that those who get in trouble with their markers are criminals who wrote bad checks. So we'll give the author, Joel Schectman, credit for being different.

I like this quote that's included:

“It’s done on the fly in the pit.”
Joe Flippen, a former Caesars Entertainment executive, on how casinos sometimes extend credit

As for a matter I've harped on, only hinted at in this article by such quotes and reading between the lines: the debt of problem gamblers becomes more and more phony as they get deeper and deeper into losses using markers. What is left is a residual condition costing the casino nearly nothing to generate. To understand that is to understand how this turns into predatory lending. I've blogged about that and will continue to blog about it.

Look at what they are doing to these women, my God!

And ask yourself why any business as uptight as casinos are, about practically everything, ever allow a loose condition like offering credit "on the fly". The answer is because the practice is so spectacularly profitable with certain easily recognizable conditions they always come out way ahead even when some gambling debts never get paid.
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Oct 8, 2016
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 8th, 2016 at 5:32:00 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

This article, in two parts, is well informed about casino credit, unusual for a journalist. Normally I see them slavishly repeat the casino line that those who get in trouble with their markers are criminals who wrote bad checks. So we'll give the author, Joel Schectman, credit for being different.

I like this quote that's included:

“It’s done on the fly in the pit.”
Joe Flippen, a former Caesars Entertainment executive, on how casinos sometimes extend credit

As for a matter I've harped on, only hinted at in this article by such quotes and reading between the lines: the debt of problem gamblers becomes more and more phony as they get deeper and deeper into losses using markers. What is left is a residual condition costing the casino nearly nothing to generate. To understand that is to understand how this turns into predatory lending. I've blogged about that and will continue to blog about it.

Look at what they are doing to these women, my God!

And ask yourself why any business as uptight as casinos are about just about everything ever allow a loose condition like offering credit "on the fly". The answer is because the practice is so spectacularly profitable with certain easily recognizable conditions they always come out way ahead even when some gambling debts never get paid.

Yet old Danny boy thinks the casinos are just good old fashion american entertainment that's being stalked and ruined by horrible kniving Advantage Players. Meanwhile they are KNOWINGLY and PURPOSELY engaging in criminal activity and encouraging people to break the laws. Including drug traffickers, opps sorry I mean pharmaceutical business men, to break the law in order to gain multi millions in profits.

Sure they get some fines in the cases they get caught, but certainly the fines still leave the casinos with a nice juicy profit. Were any criminal charges brought on the casino employees who were engaging in this crap? Doubtful, but they go after the people they recruited to do this stuff.

I bet we only hear about a very small percentage of the BS going on daily.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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October 8th, 2016 at 9:14:20 AM permalink
From the Article:

To prepare for trial, the attorneys subpoenaed casino surveillance footage of the women in the betting rooms, and the names and credit files of a score of high-rollers. The attorneys believed those records would support their claim: that the women were recruited by employees at the Sands’ Venetian and Palazzo to help high-rollers from China gamble millions without documents signed in their names.

- OK, that sounds reasonable to me.

In court papers, a Sands attorney said the subpoenas were merely to intimidate the casino into dropping its claim by airing “unsupported, specious and highly speculative allegations.”

- Uh, that sounds like the VENETIAN and PALAZZO have something to HIDE to me."

Court Transcript as I envision it:

Prosecutor: "Your Honor, we would like to call our first witness, former Venetian executive in charge of Wizardry and Housekeeping, Mr. Michael Shackelford !" (Stunned silence falls over the court-room).

Shackelford:

"Son, we live in a world that has casinos, and those casinos have to be guarded by men with a focus on the bottom-line. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Mr. JohnnyQ ?

I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves money.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that website, you need me on that website. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. Well not really, not in the casino business. We do use words like gouge, nickel and dime, 6/5, and profit, profit, profit.

We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something, the corporate bottom-line. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some chips and play them. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
All around me are familiar faces / Worn out places, worn out faces / Bright and early for their daily races / Going nowhere, going nowhere - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCLnwIkkps
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
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October 8th, 2016 at 9:57:56 AM permalink
Many thanx, Johnny. What an interesting article.

One of the article side-bars indicates, "Most table games -- including baccarat, blackjack, and roulette -- are played with casino house credit." The diagram suggested more than two-thirds of all table-game wagering was done using markers.

If Reuters sez it, I guess that's correct for Vegas. But, is that standard elsewhere? Not in my experience. (But, in fairness, I wouldn't know if the player beside me had taken out a marker at the cage before s/he came to play at my table.) Playing in Biloxi for a week or longer, I seldom see more than two markers taken out at the table during my whole visit.

And, in my experience, High Limit rooms in Biloxi are more often characterized by their emptiness rather than their multitude of players. Are Colorado, Iowa, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and other similarly located casinos more like Vegas? Or, more like Biloxi? (Curious minds want to know...)
billionaireben
billionaireben
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October 8th, 2016 at 10:36:16 AM permalink
If someone pays $3000 a night to remain anonymous, they are either a crook (and damn good at it to make that much) or they figure it's going out the window anyway; might as well give some away. I hope the housekeepers are found not responsible, they would have to have millions in the bank to justify the casino lending it to them. Since they kept their jobs as housekeepers, I doubt they put it in the bank either.

In old gambling lit, 1970's stuff; gambling debts were not enforceable here; just like they are not enforceable in China now. Debt forgiveness (and allowing cash only gambling in the future) was a way to retain customers that probably made the casino money even though they welched on a debt.

Pretty much the only way to stay anonymous is hoarding chips, which is dangerous if they change the chips or go out of business. There is a story of a guy who's dad ( who worked at a casino) gives him boxes of defunct chips, he hires a bunch of hookers off the chips and they have an orgy. The hookers were quite upset according the the bellman who set the whole thing up (connected the guy with the hookers). The guy wasn't seen after that, probably left; not easy to find if you know to leave.

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