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redietz
redietz
Joined: Jun 5, 2019
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Mission146
July 29th, 2020 at 2:33:09 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I did. I guess my point, just from my perspective, is that you're doing a greater potential danger to yourself just by being there in the first place than are a few people who are there and violating the safety rules. Were you not there, then their adherence to the safety rules would be irrelevant to you.




Again, the last line above is presumptuous in the extreme. I'm sitting in Tennessee, and whether Red Rock is adhering to rules is not at all irrelevant to me.

It's not irrelevant to me because I think it hurts people.
It's not irrelevant because it promotes spread.

What's relevant to me is not always about me.

To the extent that it IS about me, not following rules damages Las Vegas long term because I think it makes a comprehensive shutdown necessary. So that makes Las Vegas less likely to recover quickly. It makes it less appealing as a place I visit in the near future. It hurts the appeal of Las Vegas to me for years to come.

Maybe it's because I read too many Spider-Man comics in my life or maybe it's the journalism experience, but if I thought reporting violations protected people from illness, I'd report violations all day long.

And Mission, I'm not big on the free will/volition schtick. I tend to not believe in things that I prefer to be true. Virtually every social science study suggests that people overestimate their personal effect on situations and outcomes. Human beings are strongly biased towards thinking they are driving the car when they're actually surfing the waves.
"You can't breathe dead hippo waking, sleeping, and eating, and at the same time keep your precarious grip on existence."
Keeneone
Keeneone
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Mission146
July 29th, 2020 at 2:43:06 PM permalink
Quote: camz1969

Yea, so to redirect back to the original conversation...what are the odds that Vegas will close back down soon? I'm thinking about going soon, but I don't want to get out there to some closed casinos or not enough tables/seats to get a seat quickly.


It has been more than a month since the mask mandate went into effect. Cases and hospitalizations continue to run high in Nevada.

I personally do not think casinos will be forced to fully close, but other changes could certainly happen.
In my visits to the locals places, things seem busier and more crowded (this could be a result of the recent bar closures).
Keeneone
Keeneone
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Mission146
July 29th, 2020 at 2:49:09 PM permalink
Good article about gaming revenues:
https://www.cdcgamingreports.com/junes-relaunch-of-gaming-in-nevada-reduces-but-doesnt-reverse-the-statewide-declines/
Looks like places outside of Las Vegas rebounded quicker in June (Reno for example). Mesquite even saw an increase for June 2020 over June 2019. Kinda makes sense with all the properties still closed in Clark County.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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July 29th, 2020 at 2:59:27 PM permalink
Quote: redietz

No, this is an incorrect statement, unless Alan Mendelson is a complete psychotic narcissist. Pretending casinos are closed might alleviate the safety concerns Mendelson has for HIMSELF. But quite a few people do consider the safety of others when making behavioral decisions.

I think one thing that has been exposed most during the pandemic and is most surprising to me is the unmitigated self-absorbed focus of Americans. Everything is about self; people behave with huge blind spots regarding what used to be called civics when I was in grade school.



If he does not go to the casinos, then he will also not be adversely impacting the safety of others in the casinos.

I agree that many Americans are individualistic rather than collectivistic.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
Mission146
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RogerKintSanchoPanza
July 29th, 2020 at 3:08:06 PM permalink
Quote: redietz



To the extent that it IS about me, not following rules damages Las Vegas long term because I think it makes a comprehensive shutdown necessary. So that makes Las Vegas less likely to recover quickly. It makes it less appealing as a place I visit in the near future. It hurts the appeal of Las Vegas to me for years to come.



Why does it make a comprehensive shut down necessary? Why does anything make a comprehensive shut down necessary? Why could a comprehensive shutdown even theoretically be, 'Necessary?'

I have no plans to go to Antartica (no offense, scientists) because the thought of going there does not appeal to me. I do not plan to go there now, never have planned to and unless conditions drastically change--never will plan to. If the place does not appeal to you for one reason, or another, then do not go there.

Let Vegas and the casinos decide if they are concerned with making people happy now, or if they are more concerned with the future theoretical desire of someone from Tennessee to want to come there later. It's their choice to make.

Quote:

Maybe it's because I read too many Spider-Man comics in my life or maybe it's the journalism experience, but if I thought reporting violations protected people from illness, I'd report violations all day long.

And Mission, I'm not big on the free will/volition schtick. I tend to not believe in things that I prefer to be true. Virtually every social science study suggests that people overestimate their personal effect on situations and outcomes. Human beings are strongly biased towards thinking they are driving the car when they're actually surfing the waves.



I basically agree with most of what you're saying, here. I guess we disagree on how relevant the concept is to the current case. Actions, even those taken by a business or a Government, do require individual human beings to undertake them at some point in the process.

I would also remind you that, in terms of the guidelines, you're talking to someone who is probably doing the things that you would want him to be doing.
Vultures can't be choosers.
petroglyph
petroglyph
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RogerKintMission146SanchoPanza
July 29th, 2020 at 4:07:22 PM permalink
https://nofacemask.blogspot.com/2020/06/nomaskinfo-archive-index-page.html

Science says that masks do little, if any, to prevent SarsCov2 virus. Does it matter?

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/dear-humans-face-masks-dont-work/
Minty
Minty
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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petroglyph
July 30th, 2020 at 12:25:09 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

https://nofacemask.blogspot.com/2020/06/nomaskinfo-archive-index-page.html

Science says that masks do little, if any, to prevent SarsCov2 virus. Does it matter?

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/dear-humans-face-masks-dont-work/



I'm hesitant to immediately trust something whose title is nofacemask. Some of that content is clearly opinion or just news that isn't scientific but merely and explanation of an event. Articles about corporations disallowing or allowing masks inside doesn't sway me in any direction. Similarly, an article about someone killing someone over being asked to wear a mask reflects more on that individual's mental health or anti-maskers than anything about the benefits or issues of someone actually wearing a mask.

With that said, it's interesting to see that there is as much out there saying that masks are of little effectiveness and I'll have to read through more. It's hard though because it seems like we've also been told they are effective numerous times, so I don't blame people for being frustrated and confused.

I sincerely hope Vegas doesn't close again as I have a trip out there next month. I believe that even though we all think of our health as personal, it is to some degree a public issue and if we aren't taking necessary precautions, we will harm other people. Some see it another way. It's hard to convince people to take measures to protect others when they aren't invested in the health of others.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
darkoz
darkoz 
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July 30th, 2020 at 12:38:36 AM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

https://nofacemask.blogspot.com/2020/06/nomaskinfo-archive-index-page.html

Science says that masks do little, if any, to prevent SarsCov2 virus. Does it matter?

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/jon-rappoport/dear-humans-face-masks-dont-work/



It's not enough for scientists to conduct a study.

The study has to be peer reviewed.

If independent scientists examine the data and come to the same conclusion it's excepted.

Otherwise it's an unsubstantiated opinion even if that opinion is by a group of scientists.

That's to make certain the trial was conducted properly etc.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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July 30th, 2020 at 10:10:55 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Let's see if this works: (Posted June 7, 3 days after we were told it was safe to return to casinos with social distancing and 50% capacity.)
I called the Nevada Gaming Commission on Sunday and I made an official complaint against Red Rock Casino.
Shame on Red Rock Casino.
I was playing at one craps table with one other player on my side and three other players on the other side. Then a young guy walks up with SIX others in tow. This one guy takes the remaining spot at the table and his four male friends squeezed in at the table. Two gals stood behind them.
Two problems here. First non players are not supposed to be at tables or even standing close by to watch the action. Second problem was the more obvious... you cant have all those friends at the table when the maximum is three.
First, I asked a dealer to have the non players leave. The dealer said "we are not the social distancing police." What???
I asked a second dealer who said it the same. Then I called over a supervisor who said the same. Then a second supervisor a memo was sent by management that they are not the police for social distancing.
Then another supervisor came over to me to apologize. He knew I was correct.
In fact the casinos must enforce the social distancing rules set by the Nevada Gaming Commission.
By then it was too late for Red Rock. I left my chips in the rail of the table and I stepped back to use my phone. I called the NGC enforcement office in Vegas which operates 24/7.
I told the NGC officer on duty what was going on, and I told him what table I was at.
Within a half hour an NGC agent, badge and all, was at my table speaking with me. And then he went to the top manager and told him off.
Shortly after the dealers and supervisors were enforcing the rules.
I don't know if Red Rock will be fined. Fines are usually kept confidential. I'm sure they're going to get written up for violating a key rule that allowed the casinos to reopen.

On the topic of craps, I have a few comments and questions. Since the reopening I have been playing at Santa Fe, where they have been quite thorough from the entrance for the north garage to following the rules strictly yet courteously at the tables. After the governor mandated masks, even the slots were complying except for less than a handful of exceptions.

The casino started a second daytime craps table on Sundays. One all tall all small and the original with the fire bet. Starting a couple of weeks ago, they doubled the minimum. Did Red Rock do something similar?

It turns out that no Boarding Pass points come from table games. And no match plays either. If Red Rock has the new stadium seating setup, are there more games than just roulette and blackjack?
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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Mission146SanchoPanza
July 30th, 2020 at 11:32:51 AM permalink
Red Rock did away with $5 craps during slow times. Minimums are now $10 or $15.

The first weekend back when the casino was packed they had some $25 tables.

Suncoast has $5 and $10 craps.

I havent been to Rampart.

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