Downtown Revival and Competition for the Strip?
Quote:It may be time for refurbishment, given the recent upswing of downtown, compared with the Strip. According to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, gaming revenue was up from January 2015 to 2016, 8.8 percent, vs. the Strip, down 7.7 percent. Average daily room rate: up 13.1 percent vs. the Strip at 6.7 percent. Downtown revenue per available room: 15.6 percent vs. the Strip at 9.5 percent.
It sounds like downtown is doing better than the strip is some regards. The article claims that the value downtown is hard to beat -- free shows, discounts on things like the zip line, and room rates.
The gambling downtown has always been better too when it comes to things like minimums, odds, and expected value. I wonder how much this is having an effect.
Has the strip gone too far with 6:5 blackjack, terrible pay tables on video poker, and the like? Will competition from downtown force the strip to offer better gambling?
I can only hope, but I guess for that to happen myself and others will need to vote with their dollars and do some gambling downtown.
--helpmespock
I am staying at both the Golden Nugget and Downtown Grand. I have heard both are very nice especially the new rooms at the Nugget.
Quote: helpmespockHas the strip gone too far with 6:5 blackjack, terrible pay tables on video poker, and the like? Will competition from downtown force the strip to offer better gambling?
I can only hope, but I guess for that to happen myself and others will need to vote with their dollars and do some gambling downtown.
What worries me is, a surge in popularity downtown would, instead of getting the Strip to ease up on its games, cause Downtown to become tighter.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main reason 3-2 blackjack on the Strip dried up the surge in the Strip being more for clubbing and show watching, so the players probably wouldn't notice the tighter tables and machines? ("3-2? 6-5? What's the difference? I can count my way to a profit anyway! If they can do it on The Simpsons...") That's not about to change, and I don't see downtown being "the place to be seen" any time soon.
The thing that's annoying is when the strip casinos say things like "OMG GAMING IS DOWN WE'RE ALL GOING DOWN THE TUBES!" when in reality:
1) Instead of making $300 million they only PROFITED $280 million.
2) Their overall revenue went up, but gambling went down... since they're now marketing the strip as a "club scene" this should be expected, but gives them a reason to bitch about needing to make tighter rules/regulations/etc.
Quote: RomesLike Don, my thoughts have been they don't even want the strip to be about gambling anymore. They want to make it an "entertainment night life" venue where they can charge anywhere from $400 to $5k for bottle service, $50 entry fee's, $10 beers, and then if you do pay for all that and get good and shined up you won't know if the blackjack table they ushered you to after is 6:5 or 3:2... not like they'd know the difference anyways, but yeah. I don't think the strip cares.
The thing that's annoying is when the strip casinos say things like "OMG GAMING IS DOWN WE'RE ALL GOING DOWN THE TUBES!" when in reality:
1) Instead of making $300 million they only PROFITED $280 million.
2) Their overall revenue went up, but gambling went down... since they're now marketing the strip as a "club scene" this should be expected, but gives them a reason to bitch about needing to make tighter rules/regulations/etc.
+1
Quote: helpmespockI read this article on the Las Vegas Review Journal website about how the Freemont Experience was going to attract visitors on St. Patrick's Day, but buried inside the article was the comment:
It sounds like downtown is doing better than the strip is some regards. The article claims that the value downtown is hard to beat -- free shows, discounts on things like the zip line, and room rates.
The gambling downtown has always been better too when it comes to things like minimums, odds, and expected value. I wonder how much this is having an effect.
Has the strip gone too far with 6:5 blackjack, terrible pay tables on video poker, and the like? Will competition from downtown force the strip to offer better gambling?
I can only hope, but I guess for that to happen myself and others will need to vote with their dollars and do some gambling downtown.
--helpmespock
The percentages may be deceiving since the totals are so different:
Per the UNLV Center for Gaming Research, Downtown Casino Revenue from the 16 casinos making $1m or more in fiscal 2015:
Total: 528,727,367
Average: 33,045,460
Daily Average: 90,536
Strip Casino Revenue from the 23 casinos making more than $72m or more in fiscal 2015:
Total: 5,293,838,707 (9x Downtown)
Average: 230,166,900 (almost 6x Downtown)
Daily Average: 630,594
There is also revenue from "smaller" Strip casinos making $1m - $72m. Godzilla would have to do some major damage (again) before Downtown could compete with the Strip:
You are bringing plenty of Canadian money with you, right? (Search this site for CDN $ promo at DT Grand).Quote: PokerGrinderI am staying at both the Golden Nugget and Downtown Grand. I have heard both are very nice especially the new rooms at the Nugget.
Quote: teddysYou are bringing plenty of Canadian money with you, right? (Search this site for CDN $ promo at DT Grand).
I have already heard of that thanks, sadly that promotion ends on March 31 so I am hoping that they will offer it again after that. I also am going to talk to my host there and see if she will just allow me to use the promo even though it will have ended.
Quote: ThatDonGuyWhat worries me is, a surge in popularity downtown would, instead of getting the Strip to ease up on its games, cause Downtown to become tighter.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main reason 3-2 blackjack on the Strip dried up the surge in the Strip being more for clubbing and show watching, so the players probably wouldn't notice the tighter tables and machines? ("3-2? 6-5? What's the difference? I can count my way to a profit anyway! If they can do it on The Simpsons...") That's not about to change, and I don't see downtown being "the place to be seen" any time soon.
Interesting. Perhaps Downtown might get tighter if the Strip decides to abdicate all casino revenues to Downtown. I don't think that's going to happen though. As Romes said in a subsequent post the Strip casinos are making a profit from their casino operations. They'll want to keep those profits so presumably they'll have to compete at some level for them.
Certainly for the Strip gambling is just another form of adult-oriented entertainment and restaurants, shows, clubs, etc. are rounding out their offerings. One thing gambling offers that clubs etc. cannot is scale. A show has a theatre with a fixed number of seats and a limited window to present to a patron. Ditto a restaurant. I'm not a club goer by any stretch, but presumably there is a point where having a larger space begins to interfere with patrons interacting with each other.
--helpmespock
Quote: Ayecarumba
The percentages may be deceiving since the totals are so different:
Per the UNLV Center for Gaming Research, Downtown Casino Revenue from the 16 casinos making $1m or more in fiscal 2015:
Total: 528,727,367
Average: 33,045,460
Daily Average: 90,536
Strip Casino Revenue from the 23 casinos making more than $72m or more in fiscal 2015:
Total: 5,293,838,707 (9x Downtown)
Average: 230,166,900 (almost 6x Downtown)
Daily Average: 630,594
Thanks for the numbers! I felt that the Strip was an order of magnitude larger than Downtown, but these number bring that home.
--helpmespock
Quote: helpmespockThanks for the numbers! I felt that the Strip was an order of magnitude larger than Downtown, but these number bring that home.
--helpmespock
Happy to help. Interesting to think that a little less than 2.5 "average" big Strip casinos generate as much revenue as all 16 of the properties Downtown making $1 million or more.
Quote: helpmespockI read this article on the Las Vegas Review Journal website about how the Freemont Experience was going to attract visitors on St. Patrick's Day, but buried inside the article was the comment:
It sounds like downtown is doing better than the strip is some regards. The article claims that the value downtown is hard to beat -- free shows, discounts on things like the zip line, and room rates.
The gambling downtown has always been better too when it comes to things like minimums, odds, and expected value. I wonder how much this is having an effect.
Has the strip gone too far with 6:5 blackjack, terrible pay tables on video poker, and the like? Will competition from downtown force the strip to offer better gambling?
I can only hope, but I guess for that to happen myself and others will need to vote with their dollars and do some gambling downtown.
--helpmespock
The action required for a comp'd room is much lower as well. Last trip I stayed at ElCo and I was very happy with the service I received, the room, the gambling, and the total comp (including resort fee) for my room. I gave them several hours of green chip craps action (probably $50-$75 base bet at most times) so it's not like I wasn't gambling at all. But with that same action at a TR property (where I used to stay regularly) I might get a future stay comped at Flamingo or the Quad. I have a host at ElCo who comped 2/3 nights upfront and said as long as I put in the action I estimated (and I did), the last night would be comped at checkout, which it was.
If I had to hazard a guess, I probably won't stay on the strip again for a long time. I do want to stay at the Bellagio some day. After I'm retired and rich, I guess :p
Quote: AcesAndEights... I do want to stay at the Bellagio some day. After I'm retired and rich, I guess :p
No hurry. Unless you are staying in one of the palatial suites, the regular rooms are, well, "regular". There's lots to see, and the location is convenient, but these are public things you can also enjoy for less money at the Paris just across the street.
The thing that sticks out in my mind about my stay was the lack of designated lines at the check-in counter. It was a mess of humanity and unnecessary drama with the international crowd of guests and their varying respect for the group queue(s).
Quote: AcesAndEightsThe action required for a comp'd room is much lower as well. Last trip I stayed at ElCo and I was very happy with the service I received, the room, the gambling, and the total comp (including resort fee) for my room. I gave them several hours of green chip craps action (probably $50-$75 base bet at most times) so it's not like I wasn't gambling at all. But with that same action at a TR property (where I used to stay regularly) I might get a future stay comped at Flamingo or the Quad. I have a host at ElCo who comped 2/3 nights upfront and said as long as I put in the action I estimated (and I did), the last night would be comped at checkout, which it was.
If I had to hazard a guess, I probably won't stay on the strip again for a long time. I do want to stay at the Bellagio some day. After I'm retired and rich, I guess :p
Nords or Tim?
I like the El Co a lot. Did you stay in the Cabana Suites, or the Vintage Suites?
Quote: teddysQuote: AcesAndEightsThe action required for a comp'd room is much lower as well. Last trip I stayed at ElCo and I was very happy with the service I received, the room, the gambling, and the total comp (including resort fee) for my room. I gave them several hours of green chip craps action (probably $50-$75 base bet at most times) so it's not like I wasn't gambling at all. But with that same action at a TR property (where I used to stay regularly) I might get a future stay comped at Flamingo or the Quad. I have a host at ElCo who comped 2/3 nights upfront and said as long as I put in the action I estimated (and I did), the last night would be comped at checkout, which it was.
If I had to hazard a guess, I probably won't stay on the strip again for a long time. I do want to stay at the Bellagio some day. After I'm retired and rich, I guess :p
Nords or Tim?
I like the El Co a lot. Did you stay in the Cabana Suites, or the Vintage Suites?
Nords.
I don't remember...it wasn't the Cabana Suites because that's a different building, right? I took the elevator up from the gaming floor.
That's a 'tower' room. They are most of the rooms by far, and leaving aside the 64 'Cabana' rooms that I haven't seen (formerly a flophouse called The Ogden House before being gutted and completely rebuilt) across the street, the 250+ main rooms in the 15 story tower are also definitely the ones you'd want, or at least I'm pretty sure most people would. Large and well furnished. The small number of other types of rooms that are attached to the casino are the few (only 59) ancient 'Vintage' rooms you have to take some stairs to get to that are amazingly tiny, and what amounts to a few dozen old motel rooms attached to the parking garage called the 'Pavillion' rooms. Both are something that wouldn't meet modern minimum building code standards for hotel rooms. But there aren't many of either of those. From your description you were definitely in a 'tower' room.Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: teddysQuote: AcesAndEightsThe action required for a comp'd room is much lower as well. Last trip I stayed at ElCo and I was very happy with the service I received, the room, the gambling, and the total comp (including resort fee) for my room. I gave them several hours of green chip craps action (probably $50-$75 base bet at most times) so it's not like I wasn't gambling at all. But with that same action at a TR property (where I used to stay regularly) I might get a future stay comped at Flamingo or the Quad. I have a host at ElCo who comped 2/3 nights upfront and said as long as I put in the action I estimated (and I did), the last night would be comped at checkout, which it was.
If I had to hazard a guess, I probably won't stay on the strip again for a long time. I do want to stay at the Bellagio some day. After I'm retired and rich, I guess :p
Nords or Tim?
I like the El Co a lot. Did you stay in the Cabana Suites, or the Vintage Suites?
Nords.
I don't remember...it wasn't the Cabana Suites because that's a different building, right? I took the elevator up from the gaming floor.
The distinctions really matter a lot when you book something there, because there is a huge difference in the room types, a lot more so than most hotels.
