MGM to begin charging for parking at all Las Vegas resorts

Quote: EvenBob

They can't start charging hotel guests a separate fee
for parking, nobody would tolerate it.

LOL. You woke up funny today.

Throw that in with not tolerating higher holds on slots, high HA side bets, resort fees, higher buffet prices, higher minimum bets on table games, charging for premium drinks and energy drinks, less points for video poker play and so on and so on and so on...


ZCore13

Quote: EvenBob

They can't start charging hotel guests a separate fee
for parking, nobody would tolerate it.

You are right that would never work. Wait, I paid $45 a night to park at a Hilton last weekend in California.

Quote: DRich

You are right that would never work. Wait, I paid $45 a night to park at a Hilton last weekend in California.

So this is all your fault ? ? ? j/k

Quote: evenbob

They can't start charging hotel guests a separate fee
for parking, nobody would tolerate it.

It would make sense that hotel guests would NOT have to pay for parking and that it would be covered by the existing rip-off resort fees. Which is why hotel guests will probably have to pay for parking.

Quote: Zcore13

LOL. You woke up funny today.
3

I was just reading that in AC most casino
hotels don't charge guests for parking if
they have a players card. GN lets everybody
park for free. Caesars properties says about AC:

'Our Total Rewards program allows our most loyal patrons and hotel guests the convenience of free parking in our garages.'

Quote: EvenBob

I was just reading that in AC most casino
hotels don't charge guests for parking if
they have a players card. GN lets everybody
park for free.

AC might not be the best place to compare possible successful strategies for a casino to.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

AC might not be the best place to compare possible successful strategies for a casino to.


ZCore13

But it is the place most complained about for
parking by casino goers. It's the single most
complained about thing by out of state players.
The tolls to get there are the 2nd most complained
about.

I received an email this morning with details about parking fees and a link to the website.

http://www.mgmresorts.com/parking/

Starting on June 6, 2016 we will begin instituting paid parking at MGM Resorts parking facilities.

Complimentary Self Parking for Pearl, Gold, Platinum and NOIR Members
Complimentary Valet Parking for Gold, Platinum and NOIR Members

For all guests: Your first hour in self-parking is free

Self-parking up to 24 hours is complimentary for guests with a valid Nevada driver's license until 12/29/2016

The parking fees depend on which casiono.

Self parking:
0 to 60 minutes - No Charge
1 to 4 hours - $5 or $7
4 to 24 hours - $8 or $10
Over 24 hours - $8 or $10 each additional day

Valet parking:
0 to 4 hours - $8 or $13
4 to 24 hours - $13 or $18
Over 24 hours - $13 or $18 each additional day

Can you ride the bus?

Self parking is free for Pearl MLife members?

It's pretty easy to make Pearl...

If I read it correctly they even charge you if you are a hotel guest - thus something to factor in when booking a room at any of their places - which is a shame as I would usually stay at Excalibur.

NB Pearl is a non-starter if you haven't been to Vegas for a year or more, you might make it and save on parking towards the end of your trip if you gamble there, but why bother.

Quote: ams288

Self parking is free for Pearl MLife members?

It's pretty easy to make Pearl...

Platinum is easy to reach in Vegas.

Here is a link to MGM's new parking rules:

parking rules

I think it has something to do with MGM building that huge concert / event venue nearby: a lot of concert / event goers would park at MGM for free and never enter the casino once the show is over.

This sucks.

Fair terms. Nice they threw a bone go Pearl.

I wonder if it will count as a gaming day/trip or if you just flash your card. Basically... If you use your card for free parking but don't play... Will it hurt your theo?

Also, knowing MGM, they'll probably find a way to take $10/day off your back end.

Should we guess how long it will take them to raise the prices and eliminate the benefits for Pearl members?

My mom is visiting from out of state. She just missed the parking fees but was mad at the idea of it. "Can you believe the audacity?" Then she went on about resort fees.

People will have the same conversation millions of times. I don't have an MBA, but I know it can't be good for business to have millions of people talking about what a rip off your product is, and how angry they are as customers, that you treat them with such contempt.

Might take a while, but there is a breaking point. When the conventional wisdom becomes, "Vegas isn't worth it," it will be hard to change it back.

Also, no major, pro sports teams in Vegas. Nothing but parasites. The hockey team isn't even official yet and it's already screwing things up.

Quote: Rigondeaux

My mom is visiting from out of state. She just missed the parking fees but was mad at the idea of it. "Can you believe the audacity?" Then she went on about resort fees.

People will have the same conversation millions of times. I don't have an MBA, but I know it can't be good for business to have millions of people talking about what a rip off your product is, and how angry they are as customers, that you treat them with such contempt.

Might take a while, but there is a breaking point. When the conventional wisdom becomes, "Vegas isn't worth it," it will be hard to change it back.

Also, no major, pro sports teams in Vegas. Nothing but parasites. The hockey team isn't even official yet and it's already screwing things up.

I don't know. People seem to go to Vegas and play. The 6 to 5 blackjack rules are horrible. But, the tables seem to be full every time I go there. I could see locals getting mad about the parking. But, frankly, most locals don't like to go to the strip since it is such a tourist trap anyway. Craps table mins have gone up on the strip but it doesn't seem to hurt play. I think people will pay to park in the casinos. They may complain about it. But, they'll still do it. I suppose that you are right about the breaking point. But, I don't think the parking fees will be it for most people. They will pay and the casinos will make more money and the blowback will die down. I think CET is being pretty smart about this. They'll let the MGM casinos take the heat and then I'm sure they'll charge for parking as well. It is only a matter of time sadly as it will become the new normal.

We'll see. My position is that, over 10-20 years, the popular mindset will shift. Similar to horses and boxing. They still make money, screwing over their die hard fans as badly as possible. But the big 3 sports were once boxing, baseball and horses. Now, the average person couldn't name the triple crown winner or the heavyweight champ (Actually, "the heavyweight champ" is now an MMA fighter). Baseball is starting to screw fans more now, but historically has provided a great product at a reasonable price, and remains in the big 3.

When you have kind of a niche product that is tremendously successful, but alternatives exist, I don't think it's wise to say, "screw our customers. We'll treat them however we like. What are they going to do?" The answer usually seems to be, "something else."

Again, your die hards, and people who are just in the habit of using your product might take it. But young people will turn to MMA or its equivalent.

But, obviously, the suits running things don't care about what happens that far into the future anyway.

Quote: Rigondeaux

Again, your die hards, and people who are just in the habit of using your product might take it. But young people will turn to MMA or its equivalent.

I think that has already happened. Gaming revenue now is around 35% of total revenue. Las Vegas is no longer a gambling town it is an entertainment town. I find the resort fees very misleading and hope that it won't be long before the total non-optional price has to be the advertised price (just like the airlines).

Almost every major city requires parking fees. I don't like it but I do expect most other hotels to follow and comp it off for players meeting a certain criteria.

I am so pissed about this quick way to make a few cheap bucks off of us, the masses. You will not be immune MGM!!!! Are you listening? I refuse to patron any of your properties until you reverse course and respect the degenerate gamblers like myself that make up your bottom line!

You may think this raises your bottom line, but you are wrong! We the people shall find a PARKING FREE establishment to lose all our money at.

Ranting complete. Agggh. Sips cola.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a group of vandals took an entire casino's ticket machines out. If I was in a bar, I'd probably even throw a cheers to that.

Quote: ams288

Should we guess how long it will take them to raise the prices and eliminate the benefits for Pearl members?

As Soup Nazi says, "Come back, one year!" I'm already shocked at Pearl self-parking really.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Platinum is easy to reach in Vegas.

Big PITA in Detroit though. :P

Quote: ahiromu

Fair terms. Nice they threw a bone go Pearl.

I wonder if it will count as a gaming day/trip or if you just flash your card. Basically... If you use your card for free parking but don't play... Will it hurt your theo?

Also, knowing MGM, they'll probably find a way to take $10/day off your back end.

They are scanning the cards, so I assume it dings against the ADT as a gaming day.

They are sheep, they were born to be sheared. They play 6/5 BJ, pay resort fees, who thinks this will be different ?

Quote: Rigondeaux

We'll see. My position is that, over 10-20 years, the popular mindset will shift. Similar to horses and boxing. They still make money, screwing over their die hard fans as badly as possible. But the big 3 sports were once boxing, baseball and horses. Now, the average person couldn't name the triple crown winner or the heavyweight champ (Actually, "the heavyweight champ" is now an MMA fighter). Baseball is starting to screw fans more now, but historically has provided a great product at a reasonable price, and remains in the big 3.

When you have kind of a niche product that is tremendously successful, but alternatives exist, I don't think it's wise to say, "screw our customers. We'll treat them however we like. What are they going to do?" The answer usually seems to be, "something else."

Again, your die hards, and people who are just in the habit of using your product might take it. But young people will turn to MMA or its equivalent.

But, obviously, the suits running things don't care about what happens that far into the future anyway.

Part of the beauty of Vegas was they didn't sweat the small stuff. Until recently (as in last 10 years), all drinks were free, buffet comps were handed around from the pit, live music was free, cigarettes/cigars were comped, parking was free, side tables for grazing/nibbling available, comfortable seating, 3:2 and other good games, on and on.

Now it's all bean-counter BS. Constantly evaluating what each customer is worth to them, removing more and more live interaction with employees who can actually help, both by being informed, being there at all (as opposed to kiosks, change machines, self-check-in, etc) and by giving those employees the authority to actually DO something, either about the situation, or if that can't be helped, as a placating counter-effect.

As to boxing, baseball, and horses. Boxing let Mike Tyson, woman-abuser, ear-gnawer, nasty person, be their spokesmodel for a decade. Say goodbye to any respect for the sport from the general public.

Baseball had superstars juked up and demanding too much money, along with owner's greed. How many ballparks got bulldozed for something NOT "bigger and better" at enormous cost to local citizens, all of it driving ticket costs thru the roof? Bye bye, baseball, the great American pastime.

Horses broke my heart when Eight Belles broke down on the track at the KD, but PETA and other organizations raising awareness about inhumane treatment of racing and fighting animals has killed not just horse racing, but dogs, chickens, anything else "enslaved" for betting purposes. Again, see ya, animal sports.

Each one still has its die-hard fans. But the general interest faded through repugnance or discomfort with the uglier side of each. Perhaps just the reporting, different now than a couple decades ago, shapes public opinion on things. Financially, though, die-hards aren't enough to keep any of those alive, without a casual fan/general public acceptance of their place in American sports.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Part of the beauty of Vegas was they didn't sweat the small stuff. Until recently (as in last 10 years), all drinks were free, buffet comps were handed around from the pit, live music was free, cigarettes/cigars were comped, parking was free, side tables for grazing/nibbling available, comfortable seating, 3:2 and other good games, on and on.

Now it's all bean-counter BS. Constantly evaluating what each customer is worth to them, removing more and more live interaction with employees who can actually help, both by being informed, being there at all (as opposed to kiosks, change machines, self-check-in, etc) and by giving those employees the authority to actually DO something, either about the situation, or if that can't be helped, as a placating counter-effect.

To be somewhat fair, the customer has changed over time, making the changes by the casino inevitable. Pre-Mirage era, Vegas was not the Disneyland it is today. There was always some cheap show or meal, but it was more intimate. If you got a comped meal it was more of a, "yeah, I lost a bit but they took care of dinner so that was nice." Today there are so many people who think dropping $100 at a table should earn a steakhouse meal or even RFB. It used to be impossible to walk from hotel to hotel on the strip, now what, 5% or less of people who walk in the door will actually gamble at the place?

Just curious how they would spin this. The following was in my e-mail, apologies if anyone has already cut/pasted this:

Dear John,

MGM Resorts International is taking steps to implement a $90 million parking strategy to expand parking availability, implement technology upgrades and reduce the hassle and frustration resulting from outdated and inefficient facilities.

In order to fund these investments—and the ongoing maintenance and capital improvements of our parking facilities—we will be instituting fees for self- and valet parking. Fees will begin to roll out at our Las Vegas hotels on June 6, 2016. These rates remain significantly below those of other highly popular tourism destinations.

As an M life Rewards Member:
• Once you've achieved Pearl tier status or above, you will receive complimentary self-parking.
• Once you've achieved Gold tier status or above, you will receive complimentary valet parking.
All parking is subject to availability.

The environment in Las Vegas has changed dramatically in the decades since amenities like low-quality dining, lodging and free parking were offered to attract customers. Growth in tourism and our local population—including many more cars on our local roadways—requires more parking availability, more efficient, modern parking systems and more frequent maintenance and upgrades to our aging facilities—all of which come at significant cost.

We have come to this decision with a great deal of care, particularly knowing we would be breaking with Las Vegas tradition. We are committed to continuing to develop the Las Vegas guest experience and hope that you will recognize the improvements during your next trip to one of our Las Vegas resorts.

Click here for a complete overview of our parking policy.

Sincerely,

Jordan Salmon
Vice President, Loyalty Marketing

"low-quality dining"
Seems out of place to mention that in a letter aimed at trying to explain MGM's position to "loyal" customers. Possibly it's an attempt to separate "you" (as a valued sophisticate patron) from locals and the unwashed masses whom drive cars and eat poor quality food? Could have been easier to say all the parking spaces are taken up by low-end vehicles. I would have expected more polish given to the letter given that it is intended to make you feel special to pay for the privilege to park, play, and dine in "high-quality".

"Las Vegas has changed dramatically in the decades since amenities like low-quality dining, lodging and free parking were offered to attract customers".

I think he is trying to say that Las Vegas is all grown-up now and can charge for parking like other grown-up cities. Except that is pretty much for the downtown areas. It seems like any other near-by Strip casino will have its parking garage(s) fill-up.

Personally I agree with much of the grousing and griping about both the main explicit thread topic, as well as a fair bit of what y'all have said about other stuff as illustrations or analogies or examples of more generalized complaints about the impulse of those in the business of serving and/or entertaining the public to seek out remarkably stupid ways to screw up their own gig by repeatedly annoying, offending, and gratuitously screwing with their customers.

But. I said that in order to then say.... Hmmm... Ehhh... Bzzzzzzt. No.

Interesting how folks here arrive at what they decide to believe or "know." People who are VERY into gambling a LOT more than average folk are also... often distinctly different folk. Things really tend to be quite different here. They really do. Often. Sticking just to the one allegedly wretched example of sporting failure that's involved with the wooden sticks & funny summertime mittens, because I think it probably makes the easiest and most obvious spectacular "hmmmm-ing" noise, IMO, as I read folks working up funeral ballads about this stuff:

Quote: beachbumbabs

Each one still has its die-hard fans. But the general interest faded through repugnance or discomfort with the uglier side of each. Perhaps just the reporting, different now than a couple decades ago, shapes public opinion on things. Financially, though, die-hards aren't enough to keep any of those alive, without a casual fan/general public acceptance of their place in American sports.

Oh. Die hards. Struggling for life. That'll come as a big surprise to a great many people directly involved with a bunch of those things, including analysts working in the financial business press reporting on them. Who knew, how remarkable this surprising information now comes to light here in the clever if sparsely populated venue of a casino gambler forum, and how in the world did they ever manage to keep this rather large gloomy secret under wraps for so long? Apparently an awful lot of the most prominent and widely read financial journalists who are in the business of looking at actual data for the purpose of dissecting and critiquing the performance of these sports as enterprises are gonna have a whole lotta 'splainin to do. Given what they've widely & consistently been reporting about them again and again, year after year, after year, after year, for decades, right up through to today. A small sample from that ocean:

Forbes, 12/10/2014: Major League Baseball Sees Record $9 Billion In Revenues For 2014

Forbes, 12/4/2015: MLB Sees Record Revenues For 2015, Up $500 Million And Approaching $9.5 Billion

By Mark Townsend, 12/6/15: Report: MLB's gross revenue increases for 13th straight year, nears $9.5 billion



Comparative sports total revenue figures (rounded to the nearest 0.1 billion):

*NFL (2015): $13 billion
*MLB (2015) $9.5 billion
*NBA (2015) $4.8 billion
*NHL (2014) $3.7 billion

And, somehow that little gathering of decrepit dying old codgers of MLB has been growing at the fastest rate of all of those, has been doing so for a long time, and that significantly higher rate of growth has been and continues to accelerate. Yes, it has.

But I thought I'd start my dissent nice & soft with that part about the money. Because the dollar revenue figures are really quite a bit more egalitarian looking among the sports than actual attendance. You know, that'd be the physical presence of real live people actually paying money & spending time (very precious to those of us who are presumably overdue to stumble with our baseball caps into a graveyard & croak at any minute), having enough interest to bestir themselves sufficiently to actually perform the series of amazing courageous feats required to go out of their houses to go see feel and directly experience sumpin' real, like out there beyond the video cocoon, as opposed to burping in front of a TV endlessly absorbing commercials wafting out of the box.

Here's the total annual attendance at the actual games (in millions, rounded):

*MLB (2014) 74 million
*NHL (2015) 22 million
*NBA (2014) 21 million
*NFL (2014) 18 million

For NFL fans & advantage players, what that stuff means is that many more people are going out to the not so smash-mouth quickly-flashing ding-ding-ding games, but instead to one played in a ball "park" with the object of being "safe at home" than to all those others added together. That is, if getting blotto & passing out in front of a video tube doesn't count. The bat & ball game isn't quite as perfectly well suited to that, and to the attention span involved with a remote control being some folks' most precious intimate companion. It is inherently very well suited to exactly the opposite sort of temperament.





Cliff notes: Pffft. Keep livin' it up slapping that lighted button, faster & faster, ding-ding, if that does it for ya. But get off my lawn.

I just don't understand this. Pay for parking is supposed to be done in locations where parking is scarce. Parking in Vegas is not scarce! I hope this thing blows up in their face. But then again, I can see so many people not caring just like they don't care about 6:5 BJ and resort fees.

Dd,

Too long to quote. Touché, and well researched. However, you and I had different parameters in mind. I'm referencing my childhood, when Dad and the boys went to an MLB game of an afternoon, beer/hot dogs/peanuts included, and came home with change from a 20. (We're gonna win, Twins! We're gonna score!)

You're showing revenues under modern parameters, including tv revenues, corporate sponsored headcounts (sponsors get big blocks of tix to pass around at all home games), much larger stadiums in many cases (usually not counted against revenues as civic bond issues), and inflated pricing, including memorabilia.

You're the perfect person to ask; you attended the playoffs. Just curious; how much did it cost you, overall or per game, assuming you paid per - person gate and concession prices, to do that last year? Parking, good seats, ballpark food, programs, memorabilia, etc.

Quote: DrawingDead

Cliff notes: Pffft. Keep livin' it up slapping that lighted button, faster & faster, ding-ding, if that does it for ya. But get off my lawn.

Wow. Now that's a post. Should be copied over to the articles section, possibly as a companion article on sports gambling.

Yes, times change. There used not to be any truly 'local' casinos in Vegas, the whole town exploded on the weekends as cars and planes flocked into town. Sure hotel rooms were ten dollars. Buffets were two dollars.
Just about everything else was free. I recall when I walked into a casino and was simply standing there as my vision transitioned from bright sunshine and unbearable heat to air conditioned casino: I could barely see the beautiful young Tray Lizard who offered me a drink... and I wasn't even gambling nor was I yet even near the tables.

Today that Tray Lizard would be fired. Or more likely some MBA type has already seen to it that she is long gone. Drinks are computerized, liquor brands are linked to player card data, Tray Lizards are computer dispatched and timed.

Parking has always been a problem for casinos who often watched people park in their lot and walk directly to the next door casino. Now... I recall one man who bought in with 800 at a craps table, played for several hours and tipped generously then returned to the parking lot to find his car had been towed because he was a dealer at the adjacent casino. Can you imagine the MBA that did that?

I know times change. Nightclubs are now big deals in Vegas as are big name chefs and their restaurants. Sure there are lots of locals who have cars, sure their are rooms that go for a fortune rather than ten bucks.

The one rule in 'old Vegas' was always: The Casino's bottom line is paramount, every thing else is a loss leader. Then MBA's came to town and started making rooms a cost center and parking a cost center.
Sure, I like scanning my key card at a kiosk so that by the time I've trekked to the Valet Parking Desk, my car is already waiting for me or atleast is enroute. I am thankful for that, but most of the MBA "improvements" are either annoying or downright offensive.

That is why I prefered the Venetian to Terribles. Sure a toothbrush at the Venetian was eight dollars and at the Terribles gift shop it was 99 cents, but in the casino the booze was top quality at the Venetian and at Terribles I was embarassed for the poor girl that had to serve such a tiny portion of obviously watered-down orange juice. We judge Vegas by our Casino experience. MBA's have to learn that.

After Caesars started their "resort" gotcha-sucker fee, I followed their revenue reports and discussions about it in their earnings conferences with financial analysts. They lost money because of the junk fee. Loveman & those working for him in the "C-Suite" wouldn't quite say so as they were prodded a bit on their quarterly earnings conference calls, and there is some potential ambiguity between what one could argue is some amount of coincidental correlation vs. causation over the year after they did it. But the effects appeared quite sharp, and really just left room for quibbles about the degree of negative effects FOR THE COMPANY & SHAREHOLDERS, but not really about the net +/- direction it had. At least that's the strong opinion I reached after following it for long enough (about a year) to reach a definite conclusion for myself.

Their hotel occupancy declined, quickly and significantly. But as that happened, on-balance their hotel revenues increased by a small amount as the extra money charged from the sneak-fee slightly outweighed the vacancy loss. However, they are not in the stand-alone lodging Motel-6 business. It had spin-off effects on reduced gaming volume, overall visitor entertainment spend, and food & beverage revenue. I suspect a combination of marginally decreased hotel occupancy persisted, with some difficult to define decline in repeat visitation, changes in bookings & destinations & lengths of stay, along with a little of the simple effect of some folks having just that much less to blow getting wrapped in seaweed & dipped in honey in the "Spa" or munching artfully presented pricey little cute food things & whatnot. These overall declines in visitor financial activity throughout their destination-resort properties swamped the very slightly better than break-even effect on narrowly defined hotel income. Did the fact that it was actually most likely detrimental to the purpose for which they did it, and contrary to their own self-interest as a company, result in them changing course? Can you insert your own little lines of bouncing yellow-faced thingamajiggers here as symbols of "rolling on the floor laughing our assets off?"

And what I'm getting at is that in my opinion this new parking charge crap will likely be a net loser FOR THE COMPANY of MGM-Mirage in similar multiple ways, some of them probably unforeseen & unforeseeable, as well as to some degree for Las Vegas generally as a mass vacation destination brand. "What parks in Las Vegas stays in the belly of a machine now bolted to the concrete floor by the exit for validation of parking payment before you can be allowed to leave." And I also predict that when it is getting so close to next winter that they start shutting down the pools, there is an absolute 100% certain probability that I will still personally be totally pissed-off about it as a disproportionate pain in the britches that never goes away or let's me fuggedaboudit, by about 5x the value of any actual dollar amount involved.

Baseball is doing great, but I think it's following the Vegas path. Most sports seem to have successfully shifted to appealing to middle class and wealthy people, primarily. At least when it comes to going to the games. They've managed to make it kind of a status symbol, in many respects. Vegas also did this successfully.

I think people get a kind of perverse pleasure out of paying $10 for a beer or whatever and then bitching about it. And the stadiums that sell upscale food can get away with even crazier prices, much like some Vegas venues. I think a lot of people who come to Vegas get utility out of going home and telling everyone they paid $22 for a burger, and it was a really good burger, but probably not worth $22 and so on.

I think that's a good marketing strategy.

What people don't like, is being slapped right in the face and getting nothing in return, which seems to be the next phase of this path. My understanding is that most Angelinos cannot see Dodgers games now, even if they have cable, because they have an exclusive contract with Time Warner. That is a straight up, "FU, you mean absolutely nothing to us," to the fans. That's the boxing/horses path.

Baseball might be able to get away with it more, because it's such an internet friendly sport, with fantasy, endless statistics, the rise of prospects and so on. The nature of team sports also allows them to screw the fans more because they have blind loyalty. Though, if you never see any games as a kid, I'm not sure how that ball gets rolling.

Quote: Rigondeaux

I think people get a kind of perverse pleasure out of paying $10 for a beer or whatever and then bitching about it.

Yeah, I know there's some truth in that. I know this because I did that. With a pretzel. I believe it was an $8.95 pretzel, IIRC. Plus tax, which gives it a suspicious resemblance to a ten buck pretzel. And yes, I bitched about it for the 15 seconds or so it took me to eat it to the nice folks next to me in Section 242 of Busch Stadium (as well as to a few desk folks back at my hotel) and then Mr. & Mrs. Sec. 242 Proud Season Tickets gratefully used the implicit social pass & downloaded to me several of their very own favorite "ain't that a bitch" items.

Economics is strange in Vegas. In hard times, they lower room rates...but to the customers they really want that is meaningless because the rooms are already comped. A few bucks altering the buffet rate is hardly an enticement if the teen arcade and movies go up. There is a totality of expenses for the average visitor but its really hard to define 'average'. Some weekend visitors are hookers that the hotel 'sort of' wants to keep out and the casino definitely wants to keep out. Some weekend visitors are 'cooler of beer and free ice' types that won't spend a dime in any restaurant in town because they have stocked up on bologna sandwiches, chips and beer.

Some casinos love being near a transit stop, Sheldon Edelson pulled strings to make sure none was near the Venetian. He wants 'the carriage trade' which in Vegas means at least a limousine from the airport rather than a shuttle. He even forces the shuttle to stop at the 'Siberia Door' and get screened.

Perhaps what we have to learn is to navigate thru the maze of MBA foolishness and 6:5 BJ tables and seek out what is valuable to us. Free booze? Ten dollar pretzels? Comped Rooms? Or just skilled dealers and decently slim house edges.

Me? I'll take the skilled dealers and the Venetian anytime but I'd prefer the rooms at a mid-tier casino.
Fancy and Famous Restaurant? Keep your decor and Hollywood Stars away from me.

Quote: DrawingDead

Yeah, I know there's some truth in that. I know this because I did that. With a pretzel. I believe it was an $8.95 pretzel, IIRC. Plus tax, which gives it a suspicious resemblance to a ten buck pretzel. And yes, I bitched about it for the 15 seconds or so it took me to eat it to the nice folks next to me in Section 242 of Busch Stadium (as well as to a few desk folks back at my hotel) and then Mr. & Mrs. Sec. 242 Proud Season Tickets gratefully used the implicit social pass & downloaded to me several of their very own favorite "ain't that a bitch" items.

Busch Stadium is terrible for concession prices. Last time I went to a Cardinals game (April '15), I spent nothing on concessions. 2011 World Series tickets were $200/ea for upper deck too. But at least I did it! I'm really too broke right now if the Blues make the Cup Finals. Those are going for about $600/ea on StubHub right now. :(

As for this thread, yeah, this sucks for people like me. Not sure if it will drive tons away though. I'm more curious to see how it affects the other garages.

Sorry B3, didn't mean to ignore you, just now saw your reply & query on the other page. Holy $#^! thinking about "change from a 20." Of course I kinda knew that'd have been so at some point "back in the day." Including some of my days. But still.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Dd,

Too long to quote. Touché, and well researched. However, you and I had different parameters in mind. I'm referencing my childhood, when Dad and the boys went to an MLB game of an afternoon, beer/hot dogs/peanuts included, and came home with change from a 20. (We're gonna win, Twins! We're gonna score!)

You're showing revenues under modern parameters, including tv revenues, corporate sponsored headcounts (sponsors get big blocks of tix to pass around at all home games), much larger stadiums in many cases (usually not counted against revenues as civic bond issues), and inflated pricing, including memorabilia.

You're the perfect person to ask; you attended the playoffs. Just curious; how much did it cost you, overall or per game, assuming you paid per - person gate and concession prices, to do that last year? Parking, good seats, ballpark food, programs, memorabilia, etc.

How accurate would you like that? I made three junkets totaling more than two and a half months of time spent in STL & KC, and about 25-30 Cardinal games at Busch and a dozen or so, maybe 15, for the Royals at Kauffman. You got me thinking about pre-pre planning my itinerary for my next (not quite so epic) junket later this year, so I'll be glancing at my paper trail from last year & afterward I'd be able to give less vague info later than the big range I'm about to mention now.

Here's the thing about that. I intentionally changed my seating all over the joints to sample this & that & the other thing for about half the games I saw before eventually settling into a smaller set of some semi-regular options I eventually came to prefer, which were very different at each of the two really different ballparks. And, many of the ballparks (I think quite possibly all of them now) have gotten into using demand algorithms & "dynamic pricing." I imagine it may be very similar to how airline pricing gets done. So, not only was I moving all over, so were prices for the same or adjacent seats also constantly moving, and by substantial amounts.

The range of what I recall that I actually noted I could have paid (including everything from the regular season mid-summer midweek un-sexy opponents all the way up to Division Series playoffs of the Saints of Louis vs. the Cubs of Evil and the Pennant clinching American League Championship in KC) went from $7.00 to about $1,500. Yes, I said seven dollars. That would have been for the very top of the highest deck in KC for an August game on something like Tuesday or Wednesday with a (then) cellar-dwelling Baltimore team in town, and those upper-upper-uppers are very exposed to copious amounts of any wind sun rain & perhaps all three before the 7th inning stretch there. But I wandered up & around & looked at those 7 buck seats, they were over the infield, and actually did have a perfectly decent view. Prolly great for a family with a platoon of rugrats, if prepared with both umbrellas or ponchos and industrial sized bottles of sunscreen. And I'm sure someone paid a lot more than $1,500 for some kind of ultra-primo exclusive suite type thing somewhere, but not among those regular seat-seats that I actually checked on.

The range of what I actually did pay was from about $32 (midsummer, midweek, etc) to somewhere in the neighborhood of about $280 or so for the best of the seats I had among the playoff games. I think my lesser playoff seat locations were about a hundred and a half, and one could have gotten a seat for under $100, like maybe $70-$80 for CHC @ STL, and I think $50-$60 to see KC conquer Canada from the outfield. After I knew my way around to know what I really preferred (which wouldn't be the same for everyone) I most often chose regular season seats that averaged right about $90-ish at Bush, and $50-ish at Kauffman. But I came to the opinion that those $30-something regular season seats really were also perfectly okay to me for seeing & enjoying a game, at either place.

I did not park at or near Busch. I bought a city transit system pass for their commuter rail line, used an outlying free park & ride lot 12-15 miles away, and let the train deposit me practically right at Gate #2 of the ballpark, at least a bucket of midsummer sweat closer than any place I could have tried to park. Chatting with local folk including some with downtown based jobs who ought to be reasonably informed left me with the impression that I'd likely pay $20-$30 for parking in the general vicinity of the stadium, if I wanted to deal with the congestion. It is right there at the south of the central business district of St. Louis, and that particular ballpark has never in their history had paid attendance of less than 40,000, ever, for any of the 81 home games a year, not once since it was built. Parking at Kauffman was $10. It holds fewer, is located out towards the eastern fringes of metro-KC, with plenty of land all around, and I think probably has one of the easiest possible parking situations for just driving right onto the grounds of a ballpark. But I saw signage to the effect that on football season Sunday's Arrowhead right next door would be hosing people for something like $25.

Concessions. I mentioned my ten buck pretzel in another post. That was my concession purchase. Singular. That was the total extent of me buying consumable stuff. But not of consuming a bit. They allow one small shoulder slung or one hand type soft-sided cooler, which may contain ice or blue ice packets and clear plastic water bottles. Mine contained a lot of plastic bottles on my way to the game. It also happens to contain a separate interior compartment, which I would never lie or otherwise actively deceive anyone about, but apparently some say they'd never know it existed down in there if I didn't tell them and take an extra effort to show them, and it always seemed to contain a generous supply of pepperoni & cheese snacks & jerky & tasty fancy crackers & assorted stuff that I estimate would cost approximately $687,325.98 if purchased at a ballpark concession stand. So I didn't. After inhaling the nice pretzel. Singular.

P.S. edit: I didn't seriously look into pricing of World Series tickets while I was there, because I knew there was no practical possibility of me still being in or around town for it. I have a vague notion in my head that they might run about twice or more of the cost for the ALCS games I was at. But I can't remember where I got that idea, and it could be way off.

Quote: Rigondeaux

What people don't like, is being slapped right in the face and getting nothing in return, which seems to be the next phase of this path. My understanding is that most Angelinos cannot see Dodgers games now, even if they have cable, because they have an exclusive contract with Time Warner. That is a straight up, "FU, you mean absolutely nothing to us," to the fans. That's the boxing/horses path.

I keep waiting for all the pro sports to get push back from fans for prices. At the majors level it never seems to happen. $35 or more to park in my parts, and I know that is not the tops. More and more people I know keep saying the hell with it all, yet the stands keep filling up.

3 class of liars, liars , GD liars, and statisticians. Baseball 74M attendance Football 18M Baseball season 164 games NFL 16 DUHHH to say nothing of 1 game playoffs versus 5 or 7. Plus in most NFL cities, they could sell many more tickets, but once you are sold out, that's it.

Quote: ernestmiddle

...DUHHH...

Well, DUH. The point being.... obvious, and pointless. They have a lot more because they have more to have. Duh.

And by the way you got the number wrong. It is 162 vs. 16; or actually more relevant, 81 & 8 for the number of actual games.

Baseball gets a large amount of revenue from attendance. Football does not. For the NFL, people living in the place they are technically located supposedly "in" don't matter significantly to that business model. It wouldn't matter much for an NFL team if it played "in" Cheyenne, Wyoming or Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, except for: TV & themed swag marketing purposes; and for the suites which are usually purchased for the season by commercial entities for reasons other than for those buying them to see the game, NOT by individuals using them. Even the much smaller revenue that does come from live attendance in the NFL is not so much from actual individuals buying tickets for themselves. Local people in the stands in the NFL are essentially extras providing the background in a television production. Duh.

Here's the total annual attendance at the actual games (in millions, rounded):

*MLB (2014) 74 million
*NHL (2015) 22 million
*NBA (2014) 21 million
*NFL (2014) 18 million

Still 10 times as many MLB games as NFL games.

Yes there are. How 'bout dat. And so with that insight one can deduce.... that this has now descended to a level beyond idiocy. Once again, which I see is a something that has been occurring regularly in multiple threads. Bye.

It's not the fee that just pisses me off about the parking, it's going to be the fact that we will have to wait in line in order leave the friggin MGM casinos.

I am not a line former, so I will not be going to MGM properties.

So which casino will benefit the most by this decision?

I think it narrows down to either Trop or Cosmo.

Quote: Mooseton

So which casino will benefit the most by this decision?

I think it narrows down to either Trop or Cosmo.

Whichever puts in a crew of bikini clad parking attendants that efficiently guide you to the closest available free parking spot. That's my vote. Should have been a poll ;-)

It is inevitable that the non-MGM strip parking garages will start charging for parking soon.

Even if they don't want to, they practically have to in order to keep their garages from filling up with people who don't want to pay at the MGM garages (Cosmo comes to mind).

It'll be just like the resort fees - for a long time the highest any strip hotel charged was $25 + tax per night. Then one of them upped it to $28 + tax and they all followed. Then $30 + tax and they followed. Etc. Etc.

Quote: Hard6

I just don't understand this. Pay for parking is supposed to be done in locations where parking is scarce. Parking in Vegas is not scarce! I hope this thing blows up in their face. But then again, I can see so many people not caring just like they don't care about 6:5 BJ and resort fees.

It is true that it is not scarce, and so there's no sign of any current need to ration it by price. I'm in their biggest property right at the center of this regularly, generally on Saturdays, and have no trouble getting a convenient spot within a few dozen yards of the elevator, ever. Even after they've tied up many of the best spots as restricted only to leafy vehicles running on tofu or something, which are therefore never used at all.

I'm in with you in the 'hope it implodes' club. Just out of spiteful resentment, I began hoping I may eventually get to see this arena thing of theirs get down to booking tractor pulls, mud wrestling, aging unemplyed 'not-has-been-because-he-never-was' type lounge acts, and flea markets. But I can cheerfully share the news that it seems they've already gotten down to the next best thing to that:

Barbra Streisand to perform at Las Vegas’ T-Mobile Arena this summer

Quote: LVRJ

She first played the Riviera as Liberace’s “extra added attraction” in 1963.

Quote: DrawingDead

It is true that it is not scarce, and so there's no sign of any current need to ration it by price. I'm in their biggest property right at the center of this regularly, generally on Saturdays, and have no trouble getting a convenient spot within a few dozen yards of the elevator, ever. Even after they've tied up many of the best spots as restricted only to leafy vehicles running on tofu or something, which are therefore never used at all.

I'm in with you in the 'hope it implodes' club. Just out of spiteful resentment, I began hoping I may eventually get to see this arena thing of theirs get down to booking tractor pulls, mud wrestling, aging unemplyed 'not-has-been-because-he-never-was' type lounge acts, and flea markets. But I can cheerfully share the news that it seems they've already gotten down to the next best thing to that:

Barbra Streisand to perform at Las Vegas’ T-Mobile Arena this summer

So I should go right by your name when looking for my +1 on my vip tickets, eh? Lol...

Quote: beachbumbabs

So I should go right by your name when looking for my +1 on my vip tickets, eh? Lol...

I have magic powers to see the future. My mind flashed on almost exactly that reply the instant I hit "POST." You may have my customary spot, 3rd level Aria garage, north wall. You're welcome.

EDIT: But I don't always see the past so well. In case it matters to you for some practical purpose, it seems my memory overstated some of those ballgame ticket prices earlier. I see one now at Busch that was only $22 with tax. The section number starts with a "3" so that one was pretty high up, and it was a Tuesday in August. But it was against the SF Giants, who are usually a pretty good draw. Maybe multiply that by about 3 or so for the same seat if it was postseason division playoff, or perhaps 4 if a NLCS, if not matched against people within < 5 hrs. driving distance attired in stuff representing little blue forest creatures.