Mlife Sucks

Ok so I have stayed/played at MGM properties three times since November 2013, very short trip reports and summary below.

First trip was to Monte Carlo. I got my room comped ahead of time (strictly internet promotion) because of play at their properties, while not staying at their properties, a few months earlier. Over the course of two days/nights, I played 6 hours of $50+ (I press a lot) craps and 3-4 hours of other games at $15-$25. In addition, very rough guess here, $1000-2000 coin in on slots. I was destroyed this trip. I did not talk to anyone upon checking out (I know).

After this trip, when Winter quarter started, I was not given a direct room comp. I would have given downtown a shot here, but a Vegas virgin was coming with me and I wanted to get him a place on the strip.

I went at the beginning of this month, February, with a friend and decided to just pay for a room up front at NYNY and see what happens. Similar stay, 2 days 2 nights, and similar play. My craps play was probably closer to 4-5 hours at $50+ (destroyed yet again), with 4-5 hours at $15-25 of other table games. Slot coin in was $2000-3000, penny slots & quarter JoB. At the end of my trip, I went to the desk and from what I can see they gave me approximately $100 - the person at the desk just deleted some of my charges, so I can't see a straight up comp number. I was disappointed with this number, but at my play you don't get the feeling that there's -any- negotiation.

The game play and hours that I give above are what I'm 100% sure should have been counted (sat down for more than one hour). I'm kind of a ploppy and play 20-30 minutes at a lot of games (other than craps and roulette/baccarat). My calculation is that, at a minimum, I was worth 200(slots)+200(craps including some bad bets)+100(assorted other) = $500. I understand that 20% theo might be considered average or normal, but it pisses me off. I'm willing to lose $2000 when I go to Vegas (and basically did, if you round up, both times), I think I deserve a free room... I'm happy to cover my own food.

I decided to give them one last chance. I went on my reVegas trip last weekend - reVegas is something I made up, where you go to Vegas right after you get back. It's an indulgence and I stayed at Excalibur because I thought maybe I could just get everything covered, I was an idiot. I had an amazing trip, won a grand before I checked into my room ($700 penny slot win & +200 money line win). My total play was very similar to that above, except on the higher end. Closer to $3000 coin in on the slots and 6 hours of craps & 4 hours of other games. Again, this doesn't count games where I sat down for 20-30 minutes that might not have been counted (but should be, imo). I went to the desk at the end of my trip and asked them what they could do for me. They said that my balance would be $30; they are unusually cryptic about these comps and talk very quietly, I had to have them repeat themselves several times, which should have been my first clue, but I went about the rest of my day until checkout. On checkout, I get a sheet that shows me all of my charges and credits. The lady at the mlife desk was right, my balance was $30, AFTER A FUCKING $100 DEPOSIT I PAID WHEN BOOKING THE ROOM. So, in reality, I paid $130 and was only comped $50 for the entire thing.

I know many of you are laughing at me right now and that's fine, this was a learning experience. I know that I'm not worth full RFB at a strip casino, I get it. However, comping me less than 10% of my theo is insulting, especially when the cost of everything in town is basically 200% of what it should be. I will continue some history with MLife because people who don't go to Vegas often want to stay on the strip. In addition, I was very happy with my original full room comp at Monte Carlo. I'll wait until Spring offers come out and see if they can coax me into coming back.

However...

I'm going downtown next trip, unless I get a full room offer from NYNY (or anything above it).

Quote: ahiromu

I'm going downtown next trip, unless I get a full room offer from NYNY (or anything above it).

Just be careful. You may get shot at NYNY or if you are beaten up in a hallway, you may be left there to die. I'd take my chances at El Cortez.

Until you gamble at a high enough level to get a host, this is pretty much all you are going to get. Once you get a host you will be closer to 30% of theo, maybe more.

Also, they may not have been rating your play that was less than $25/hand. Many places have a minimum bet size for ratings.

Excalibur is a dump though. I think that you should have gotten a room for that level of play, just because the rooms are not worth much.

Did you happen to make a note of your tier credits before and after your trip? This would allow us to figure out exactly what you were rated at (or, you can just ask them at the players desk -- they will tell you $x avg. bet for y hours). I stay at mlife hotels all the time and I think I am pretty good at estimating what you will get based on your tier credits earned for that trip.

Note that $3 coin-in is 1 slot point which is 10 tier credits, except for video poker and some of the slot games where they pay large license fees to a third party, which are $10 coin-in for 1 slot point & 10 tier credits. For table games, a $25 avg bet for 1 hr is 550 tier credits, and it scales linearly -- $50 avg bet for 2 hrs should be 2200 tier credits, so you can figure this out yourself. Each slot pt is also 1c in freeplay and 1c in express comps; you also get express comps for your table play.

Downtown is good, but I'll do the unthinkable and recommend a mid-level CET property. With your reported betting levels, you should at least get a free room at Flamingo/Harrah's/Bally's, definitely at Quad. If you want to slum it.

But, someplace downtown will probably be very happy to get your action. I have yet to stay downtown, but it's in my future if I stay firm on less rated -EV play and more unrated +EV play.

With that action, you would for sure get free rooms or very very discounted rates at Quad, Flamingo, Ballys, harrahs, & Rio, and good rates at Planet Hollywood or Paris

I've coined in $200k at mlife and don't get much in the way of comps.... And I'm a platinum. I would change loyalties to caesers. You're gonna get free rooms if you have a pulse.

Quote: djatc

I've coined in $200k at mlife and don't get much in the way of comps.... And I'm a platinum. I would change loyalties to caesers. You're gonna get free rooms if you have a pulse.

Yep. Mlife sucks unless you're a true high roller. I'd say aceofspades's betting level is the real cutoff point to get anything worth mentioning from them.

Quote: djatc

I've coined in $200k at mlife and don't get much in the way of comps.... And I'm a platinum. I would change loyalties to caesers. You're gonna get free rooms if you have a pulse.

Just don't expect to get the same level of room that you book through Total Rewards. Caesars plays the bait and switch game.

Mlife hasn't been too bad to me. Since most of my play is unrated I've only got a few hours of $15 BJ and $5 craps and I get offers for free rooms from Excalibur/Luxor/NYNY all the time.

Quote: s2dbaker

Just don't expect to get the same level of room that you book through Total Rewards. Caesars plays the bait and switch game.

Interesting; I've never had this problem with CET (staying primarily at Flamingo/Bally's, one stay at Paris). I usually don't ask for anything great, but whenever I've asked for something beyond the cheapest room, I've gotten it.

Quote: geoff

Mlife hasn't been too bad to me. Since most of my play is unrated I've only got a few hours of $15 BJ and $5 craps and I get offers for free rooms from Excalibur/Luxor/NYNY all the time.

WHAT? That is completely out of line with everyone's experience that I have ever talked to. Are you making this up? Serious question. If you admit it now, I won't hold it against you.

MyVegas is okay, lol.

I've never gambled at any of their casinos, and when I go to Vegas in April I'm going to eat at two of their buffets. At the time I leave Vegas, I'll still have never gambled in any of their casinos.

Something > Nothing = Happy Mission146!!!

I've clocked maybe 20 hours of 10-20$BJ at PH and don't even get advertisements to return.

My mother, on the other hand, sat down at at UTH, changed 200$, was informed it was a 10$ table (and not the 5$ like she thought), decided to play one hand since she felt silly changing and leaving, hit quads, then moved to 1$ Big 6 for the next half hour (winning ~20$) while waiting for me to throw in the towel. She got mailers for nights for the next few months.

Cosmo, on the other hand, just plain confuses me. Maybe 500$ coin-in on slots on the first visit and they gave me weekday nights. Maybe 4 hours of 25$ flat betting, breaking even, and I'm now getting weekend nights, including a tournament invite. (Checked the prices for the invite weekend-- rooms will run about 700$ at this point, though they do still charge 25$/night resort fees.)

Quote: AcesAndEights

Interesting; I've never had this problem with CET (staying primarily at Flamingo/Bally's, one stay at Paris). I usually don't ask for anything great, but whenever I've asked for something beyond the cheapest room, I've gotten it.

Perhaps it's just Atlantic City then. In AC, I rarely get the room that I reserve. In Vegas, I do get treated with respect.

Quote: AcesAndEights

WHAT? That is completely out of line with everyone's experience that I have ever talked to. Are you making this up? Serious question. If you admit it now, I won't hold it against you.

No, I'm completely serious. They aren't exactly Aria quality, but I get an offer for 2-4 nights at Luxor/Excalibur at least once a month and NYNY probably once a quarter. Still gotta pay the resort fee though if that counts.

Thanks for the recommendation about Caesar's guys. This would actually be a decent proposition for me, since I'm living in DC at the moment, and like to make a couple of AC trips per year. I currently have free rooms at Trump... I may put $2k through slots at Bally's the next time I'm there and see what happens.

My only requirement when it comes to rooms is that the bathroom doesn't flood (NYNY accessible rooms fail on this) and that there aren't any bed bugs. The supposedly nicer rooms at MLife mean little to nothing to me.

I think my biggest issue is the jumping around. I see them start a card for me and update it, but if they see something under an hour or something they may just trash it... which would really hurt me. I refuse to change my game play for comps, so I might just need to find a casino that would always get this play in on some level.

I wrote this so that any green chip player will know that I have first hand experience that MLife will screw you over, even at the Excalibur. I never expected RFB, but 10% of theo is just a slap in the face. I'm not too sure where Geoff is coming from, maybe he has some play recorded he doesn't remember, but we'll just have to wait and see what my Spring offers are.

In my experience, you're worth full rooms at Harrahs/Flamingo/Quad/Rio 3 night midweek stay minimum, perhaps 4, perhaps weekends at some of those. Some food comps as well. Basing that on your play as detailed above. MGM may not value your play; CET would have.

Quote: beachbumbabs

In my experience, you're worth full rooms at Harrahs/Flamingo/Quad/Rio 3 night midweek stay minimum, perhaps 4, perhaps weekends at some of those. Some food comps as well. Basing that on your play as detailed above. MGM may not value your play; CET would have.

Thanks for the heads up, weekend is all that I care about. All of my family and most of my friends are across the country, I need to save my vacation days for going home. Midweek (other than the occasional Thursday or Sunday night) isn't really in the cards.

Plus, I don't want to see what I'd be capable of with more than 48 hours in Vegas :).

Quote: ahiromu

Thanks for the recommendation about Caesar's guys. This would actually be a decent proposition for me, since I'm living in DC at the moment, and like to make a couple of AC trips per year. I currently have free rooms at Trump... I may put $2k through slots at Bally's the next time I'm there and see what happens.

My only requirement when it comes to rooms is that the bathroom doesn't flood (NYNY accessible rooms fail on this) and that there aren't any bed bugs. The supposedly nicer rooms at MLife mean little to nothing to me.

I think my biggest issue is the jumping around. I see them start a card for me and update it, but if they see something under an hour or something they may just trash it... which would really hurt me. I refuse to change my game play for comps, so I might just need to find a casino that would always get this play in on some level.

I wrote this so that any green chip player will know that I have first hand experience that MLife will screw you over, even at the Excalibur. I never expected RFB, but 10% of theo is just a slap in the face. I'm not too sure where Geoff is coming from, maybe he has some play recorded he doesn't remember, but we'll just have to wait and see what my Spring offers are.

Something is wrong here. IF you are playing 25 to 50+ a hand for 8 to 11 hours over 2 days and straying at MLIFE property's 3, 4, or 5+ time a year MLIFE will give you Casino rate, one night comped or 2 comp nights. YOU NEED A HOST! If you played as you say you did and go 3,4 or more times a year you were ripped off. I play what I conceder to be big and when I went to the Mlife desk and asked what could they do for me (As a test) They said 700.00 off my bill. I then went to my host the day of check out (Actually called him) and got 6000 off my bill. RFB. Mlife desk is a computer not a host. YOU MUST USE A HOST. They realize you come in several times a year and you don't want something for nothing. Also, after evry play you must ask the supervisor how much time you put in and what is your avg bet. I also want to say NEVER play for comps!

Quote: mds

Something is wrong here. IF you are playing 25 to 50+ a hand for 8 to 11 hours over 2 days and straying at MLIFE property's 3, 4, or 5+ time a year MLIFE will give you Casino rate, one night comped or 2 comp nights. YOU NEED A HOST! If you played as you say you did and go 3,4 or more times a year you were ripped off. I play what I conceder to be big and when I went to the Mlife desk and asked what could they do for me (As a test) They said 700.00 off my bill. I then went to my host the day of check out (Actually called him) and got 6000 off my bill. RFB. Mlife desk is a computer not a host. YOU MUST USE A HOST. They realize you come in several times a year and you don't want something for nothing. Also, after evry play you must ask the supervisor how much time you put in and what is your avg bet. I also want to say NEVER play for comps!

$6000 off? Wow. Can I ask how high you play to get that?

I've never had a bill quite that big but it does occasionally get to be a few thousand.

I would guess that the $700 off was just your express comp balance. If they called the on-call host I'm sure that they would have given you more (but probably not as much as a host you have a relationship with)

You are absolutely right about needing a host, but my experience is that even with a host, you won't be getting much with $50/hand. At some casinos they won't even assign you a host at that level.

Quote: mds

Something is wrong here. IF you are playing 25 to 50+ a hand for 8 to 11 hours over 2 days and straying at MLIFE property's 3, 4, or 5+ time a year MLIFE will give you Casino rate, one night comped or 2 comp nights. YOU NEED A HOST! If you played as you say you did and go 3,4 or more times a year you were ripped off. I play what I conceder to be big and when I went to the Mlife desk and asked what could they do for me (As a test) They said 700.00 off my bill. I then went to my host the day of check out (Actually called him) and got 6000 off my bill. RFB. Mlife desk is a computer not a host. YOU MUST USE A HOST. They realize you come in several times a year and you don't want something for nothing. Also, after evry play you must ask the supervisor how much time you put in and what is your avg bet. I also want to say NEVER play for comps!

The MLife desk just goes off of a computer? Well, that's eye opening. They took so long looking at it, I would have sworn otherwise. My play is as I said, though my slot coin in may have been inflated after some further consideration, my time at the tables is legitimate. I know that I literally spent 10 hours playing slots and tables in one day... that was a good day (+600 at the end of that day-session). My craps "system" starts me at $44-46 and is pressed on all rolls but those pesky PSO's. My roulette "system" is $24 on the mark. Those are the two games that make up 80% of my table play.

I put "system" in quotes to differentiate from the 'I know I can win'-system. I go full OCD when at the tables and need everything to be symmetric.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

$6000 off? Wow. Can I ask how high you play to get that?

I've never had a bill quite that big but it does occasionally get to be a few thousand.

I would guess that the $700 off was just your express comp balance. If they called the on-call host I'm sure that they would have given you more (but probably not as much as a host you have a relationship with)

You are absolutely right about needing a host, but my experience is that even with a host, you won't be getting much with $50/hand. At some casinos they won't even assign you a host at that level.

Yes, you are right. express and yes if I would have had them call a host or more specifically my host it would have been no issue. however, Why should I do ther job. Why should they have to call a host. WHY IS IT ALWAYS A HASSLE? doesn't matter what you play or how high you play it is always a hassle. Why should I have to ask the floor sup every single time what is my avg? How long have I played? I have to do there job for them? I don't want to babysit them. However, at Mlife this hasn't been the case. They have been great and right on as far as my avg and time played. It is a pleasure. :)

Yes, I like M-life a lot too. Since I got my host, I always feel that I am treated fairly as far as comps go (sometimes more than fairly, to be honest) and I never bother to ask about my rating any more. It always works out in the end. When I have had multi-thousand dollar bills I have had to pay for some of them, but I tend to gamble less on trips where I party more (only so many hours in a day, after all) and even on those trips I felt that they discounted a fair amount.

Mlife does appear to be geared towards higher bettors though. At most casinos they will not even rate you if you are under $25/hand, and I did not get a host until I was around $100/hand.

I too golf, party, go to shows and there isn't enough hours in a day to play. But, if I don't play enough this trip I will the next. They know that and that's why I will keep going back. Mlife has been very fair and patient. No strip casino/hotel will rate under 25/hand. You could have had a host at 25 for 50 a hand if you wanted. And you could have got comped nights etc..

Quote: mds

No strip casino/hotel will rate under 25/hand.

I don't play tables really, but I got the impression that CET will from reading other forums. You won't get a lot though obviously.

Quote: tringlomane

I don't play tables really, but I got the impression that CET will from reading other forums. You won't get a lot though obviously.

Now if only CET would start offering BJ worth playing for under $100 a hand

Quote: mds

I too golf, party, go to shows and there isn't enough hours in a day to play. But, if I don't play enough this trip I will the next. They know that and that's why I will keep going back. Mlife has been very fair and patient.

Yes, I find this to be the case too. I have heavy partying trips and heavy gambling trips, and I find that I get comped well on either one. My host is probably just averaging it out or something. As long as the numbers work out at the end of the year, I think that she is happy (and I am playing at a much lower level than you are)

my thoughts:

*you seem to be maximizing the amount of gambling you envisioned a while back. How is that working out for your budget? I feel I can ask that since some of your first posts were about that.

*I think you are too smart to 'play for comps'

*when my action is below something that really gets attention [all of the time], I'm happy with what I get. Sometimes the nice stuff comes from mailed offers to out-of-town players. Don't torture yourself. Having said that, I know little about it.

*I officially deem you have coined the expression "Re-Vegas"

As a warning, below got kind of off-topic. I still hold my original assertion, that MLife sucks, but talk virtually nothing about it.

Quote: odiousgambit

my thoughts:

*you seem to be maximizing the amount of gambling you envisioned a while back. How is that working out for your budget? I feel I can ask that since some of your first posts were about that.

*I think you are too smart to 'play for comps'

*when my action is below something that really gets attention [all of the time], I'm happy with what I get. Sometimes the nice stuff comes from mailed offers to out-of-town players. Don't torture yourself. Having said that, I know little about it.

*I officially deem you have coined the expression "Re-Vegas"

I appreciate that you remember my original budgeting qualms. I've found a happy place (happier when I win) when it comes to craps, $10 on the line and $18 on both the 6 and 8 with very liberal pressing. By liberal, I mean usually taking one win then pressing each of them together. I'll usually start at $25-30 odds and then press up the odds with my wins from place bets before pressing those. Losing $75-90 on a PSO (starting off with max odds) is too much for me. I can handle two-day trip losses of $2000 - in practice, I bring more than this because my lifestyle (white collar, single, in my 20's) can handle losing more while I try to just have fun for the rest of my trip. However, losing my additional funds will mean no more gambling at all for 6 months or so, plus, the entire time, I'll feel guilty for being such an idiot. Again, in practice, the reserves are usually just there to let me continue playing at significantly lower stakes after a bad trip. I never really actively thought about how I handle my money on a trip until now, it's just how I naturally do things.

My worst trips (four so far with this mentality) have seemed to max off at around $1500 losses. After I lose $1000 too fast, like my first two $500 buy-ins lead to jack, I tend to just naturally regress to slots and only play at $5 tables for fun or a slower game (roulette), rarely making any sizable profit. I've accepted that I naturally overbet my bankroll, but I bet the minimum amount to get a thrill and have a bankroll that I'm semi-comfortable losing (nobody is every "comfortable" losing, that's bullshit).

The playing for comps thing has been really tough to resist. It would be so easy for me to just buy in for a thousand and up my stakes to $10 PL, max odds, $30 on each the 6 and 8. This would get me a minimum rating of $70 and potentially rated at $100 after some casual pressing. However, this just isn't feasible. I'd be betting 5-8% of my primary bankroll... over 5 hours of net pay... on a single PSO. I can't handle that... and as a fellow craps player, you know, that if you sit at a table for a couple of hours this will happen more than once. I'm also planning to move back home (as in city, not parents' house) in a couple of years and am saving up for a condo downtown, so every thousand I lose at gambling means another $350 in interest over a 15 year loan.

I think you know Mlife doesn't count odds in your avg. Not to get off topic but and im not telling you what to do but, PAY FOR A ROOM! Wherever. Then just have fun. Knowing you will lose. If you happen to win it will be a bonus but don't count on it. It sounds like you losing 1500 hurts. You could be putting that amount in a mortgage or take your girlfriend to Maui. Stop throwing 1000 here and 1000 there away. It is all relative. Sounds like You aren't playing with an advantage of any type. I built a wings at the Mirage, Bellagio and others by playing without an advantage for the first 20 years of gambling. Now I don't gamble anymore. At least I try not to. But what do I know and just have fun. Life is too short.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Mlife does appear to be geared towards higher bettors though. At most casinos they will not even rate you if you are under $25/hand,

Actually, this isn't true anymore.

I believe Aria and The Mirage are the only ones who still have that rule.

I've been rated at $10/hand playing blackjack at MGM Grand, NYNY, Monte Carlo, Excalibur, and even the Bellagio(!!!). I specifically asked the pit boss at the Bellagio and she said that they had recently gotten rid of the $25/hand rule. Some of the dealers didn't even know that it had changed and looked at me like I was crazy when I handed them my card.

Quote: geoff

Mlife hasn't been too bad to me. Since most of my play is unrated I've only got a few hours of $15 BJ and $5 craps and I get offers for free rooms from Excalibur/Luxor/NYNY all the time.

This has been my experience as well.

I'm pretty sure I've never bet more than $20 a hand at NYNY and I've gotten offers for 3 nights, $150 freeplay and a resort credit from them. I always have the generic MLife offers for any two nights comped at NYNY, Monte, Excal, or Luxor. And two weeknights comped at MGM, Mandalay, or Mirage.

Quote: mds

No strip casino/hotel will rate under 25/hand.

That is simply not true; any CET casino except maybe CP will rate you at any betting level.

Quote: ams288

Actually, this isn't true anymore.

I believe Aria and The Mirage are the only ones who still have that rule.

I've been rated at $10/hand playing blackjack at MGM Grand, NYNY, Monte Carlo, Excalibur, and even the Bellagio(!!!). I specifically asked the pit boss at the Bellagio and she said that they had recently gotten rid of the $25/hand rule. Some of the dealers didn't even know that it had changed and looked at me like I was crazy when I handed them my card.

Interesting, I'm really surprised they changed this rule at Bellagio. That was the first place I encountered it. I cashed in at a $10 min craps table and handed them my card. Got the embarrassing "Sir, we don't rate any play less than $25 per bet..."

I apologize. I wasn't 100% sure. Should have said that. I stand corrected.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Interesting, I'm really surprised they changed this rule at Bellagio. That was the first place I encountered it. I cashed in at a $10 min craps table and handed them my card. Got the embarrassing "Sir, we don't rate any play less than $25 per bet..."

I don't remember where this was, but I was at a 10$ table once, habitually gave them my card and heard the following exchange regarding it:
"Well, what does he want?"
"No idea, he just gave me his card."
"Just give it back in a few minutes."

MLife has been ok by me for the past 3 years or so - I'm not a high roller by any means ($10BJ, $5-10Craps, Slots), I go to Vegas 2-3 times a year and usually get at least 2 nights free and some freeplay - plus I have enough express comps to cover my snacks for the trips.... I would never gamble for comps but will gladly take whatever they want to give me back... I was about to go gold last year when they reset my points though!

Hey guys, just wanted to further report on this. A month ago I received a mailer from NYNY for a free summer room including any three nights +$50 free play and today I received the same offer for fall (through Oct 31). My last trip in Vegas, I stayed downtown and only used my Mlife card to skip the line at the Bellagio buffet (so they knew I was there but didn't gamble through them). This was followed up by the two aforementioned offers - not saying there was causation, just correlation. I'll probably be staying there in October and start building a relationship with a host.

My opinion of MLife has improved, but I'll reserve final judgment for a later date (getting some food comped would be a good start).

I'm going to give some advice to all you players who want to get rated correctly when playing craps.
1. Buy in more than what you intend to gamble. If it's a $100-$200 buy in for $500 and be disciplined enough to leave when you lose your limit. Your buy in does count for something, not as much as average bet and length of play, but your buy in does count.
2. MGM does not rate you on odds. So unless you are shooting the dice there's no reason for you to be playing the pass line, unless you really want that come out roll advantage of winning 1-1 on your flat bet. Instead place the bet on the point after it's been established it's the exact same bet as your pass line with full odds at $30+. And you'll get rated for your full place bet. So if you play $25 pass line with full odds, your rating will only be $25 even if you place your $125 free odds bet. But if you take your bet and place it for $150 (on a point of 6 or 8) you get rated for $150. The payout is the same, you get rated higher, plus you get the option of saving your bet/calling it off without committing your pass line bet.
3. Tip your dealers, I don't care if you think they aren't the ones that are rating you, the box person used to be a dealer at one point and they will rate you better if you tip. Trust me this is fact. Plus they are on your side, the only reason why they want you to lose is if you're rude and don't tip. If you decide not to tip, than at least be friendly.
4. If you move craps tables, make sure they move your rating, sometimes they forget to chip you in and out on the CMS system and your rating could get lost when you move around a lot.
5. Don't go to the check out desk to get your stay comps, go to the host office and see someone there. They are the ones that have final say, not the desk person checking you out.
6. Also keep in mind that the supervisors filling out your rating are good, but they are human and only check your rating every half hour. So keep an eye on them to see when they are rating, and make sure you are betting what you think you should be rated for. They make mistakes.

Lastly I've worked in the casino business for over 15 years. And have lots of experience with rating players. So take it from me this is how you will receive the best comps on the craps table.

Quote: MuggyVan

I'm going to give some advice to all you players who want to get rated correctly when playing craps.
1. Buy in more than what you intend to gamble. If it's a $100-$200 buy in for $500 and be disciplined enough to leave when you lose your limit. Your buy in does count for something, not as much as average bet and length of play, but your buy in does count.
2. MGM does not rate you on odds. So unless you are shooting the dice there's no reason for you to be playing the pass line, unless you really want that come out roll advantage of winning 1-1 on your flat bet. Instead place the bet on the point after it's been established it's the exact same bet as your pass line with full odds at $30+. And you'll get rated for your full place bet. So if you play $25 pass line with full odds, your rating will only be $25 even if you place your $125 free odds bet. But if you take your bet and place it for $150 (on a point of 6 or 8) you get rated for $150. The payout is the same, you get rated higher, plus you get the option of saving your bet/calling it off without committing your pass line bet.
3. Tip your dealers, I don't care if you think they aren't the ones that are rating you, the box person used to be a dealer at one point and they will rate you better if you tip. Trust me this is fact. Plus they are on your side, the only reason why they want you to lose is if you're rude and don't tip. If you decide not to tip, than at least be friendly.
4. If you move craps tables, make sure they move your rating, sometimes they forget to chip you in and out on the CMS system and your rating could get lost when you move around a lot.
5. Don't go to the check out desk to get your stay comps, go to the host office and see someone there. They are the ones that have final say, not the desk person checking you out.
6. Also keep in mind that the supervisors filling out your rating are good, but they are human and only check your rating every half hour. So keep an eye on them to see when they are rating, and make sure you are betting what you think you should be rated for. They make mistakes.

Lastly I've worked in the casino business for over 15 years. And have lots of experience with rating players. So take it from me this is how you will receive the best comps on the craps table.

Welcome and glad you joined. I'm sure some here would like to pick your brain. Let me start by asking if number one on your list is exclusive to craps. I know people who have attempted that at blackjack with little or no success.

Quote: MuggyVan

I'm going to give some advice to all you players who want to get rated correctly when playing craps.
2. MGM does not rate you on odds. So unless you are shooting the dice there's no reason for you to be playing the pass line, unless you really want that come out roll advantage of winning 1-1 on your flat bet. Instead place the bet on the point after it's been established it's the exact same bet as your pass line with full odds at $30+. And you'll get rated for your full place bet. So if you play $25 pass line with full odds, your rating will only be $25 even if you place your $125 free odds bet. But if you take your bet and place it for $150 (on a point of 6 or 8) you get rated for $150. The payout is the same, you get rated higher, plus you get the option of saving your bet/calling it off without committing your pass line bet.

You're going to be rated higher because your expected loss is 5x+ higher placing $150 on the 6/8 vs $25 pass line with 5x odds.

Quote: 1BB

Welcome and glad you joined. I'm sure some here would like to pick your brain. Let me start by asking if number one on your list is exclusive to craps. I know people who have attempted that at blackjack with little or no success.

Yes buying in more helps a little no matter what game you play, your actual calculation is still based on average bet and length of play, and your comps will be whatever the theoretical expected loss percentage the program gives you. But your buy in is recorded and viewed by management, and they are sensical, if they see your buy in is $1500 but your average bet is $10-$20 they know it doesn't really equate. But if you buy in $500, intend to lose $100-$200 then yes the buy in makes sense and therefore you get considered as a average buy in of $500 as opposed to $100-$200. Also please note every casino is different, I worked at a place where the only buy in they counted was the first one. So I would always tell my customers to buy in as much as they think they are going to buy in for the whole night.
But here's more advice and an example of something that really works, and helps you get noticed. Now keep in mind I'm very generous when I tip, so generous to the point where every dealer on the night shift knew my name. Someday in another post I'll share with you how you can tip the dealer in the most effective and cost efficient way to help you get noticed.
This is an example of how being nice and tipping the casino staff helps. I was playing one night in Vegas, I bought in for $800 initially, then an additional $500 a few hours later. I managed to make money after a hot roll and upon cashing out, I asked the pit what my buy in was. She says what do you want it to be? I said it should be $1300, she says I got $800 in CMS, the box person forgot to mark down my additional $500. She says "well, what do you want it to be?" I said $1300, she says how does $2000 sound? I chuckled sure whatever helps.
You see I know they were rating me better than what my actual play is. The box has the ability to do that, and dealers can also influence the box persons too. I used to do it all the time, if I didn't like you, you always got the minimum. If I liked you than you always got the most I could give you. Consider this when playing, especially on a dice table.

Quote: sabre

You're going to be rated higher because your expected loss is 5x+ higher placing $150 on the 6/8 vs $25 pass line with 5x odds.

Beat me to it. More specifically:

Expected loss on a $25 pass line bet with $125 odds (or any amount of odds) = $25 * .0141 = $0.35
Expected loss on a $150 place bet on the 6/8 = $150 * .0152 = $2.28

Chasing those comps can cost you. That's why (when playing craps) I try to be cognizant of all the comp "tricks," but focus on having fun and making smart bets first and foremost. And then try to make sure I'm getting what I deserve.

Understand that it's the same bet you're making with the same risk. The reason why they don't rate you for odds is because you could bet a pass and don't pass place max odds and therefore really maximize your free odds bet, other than the 12 on the come out roll. If you're going to make that $150 wager just do it on the point. And no your expected loss is not greater it's exactly the same on that bet with 3-4-5 odds. You guys don't get it, it's not that complicated with all your calculations. Your telling me it makes sense for you to bet $25 plus your $125 on the odds after a point is established, only to get rated for your $25, rather than placing the $150 that your going to risk anyways with the EXACT SAME PAYOUT, plus the ability to not lock in your flat bet? $150 on 6/8 placed pays you $175, $25 with full odds of $125 pays $175..... Hey go ahead do it your way .... Lol

It's not the same bet with the same risk because you lose out on a lot of wins on the come out roll. Those add up quite quickly, because there are so many of them.

The reason they don't rate you on odds is that they make no money on odds. The house edge is 0.

This is assuming that you are playing the come out roll.

Quote: MuggyVan

This is assuming that you are playing the come out roll.

What I am saying is that if you make a $25 pass line bet and make a max odds bet whenever a point is established, your expected loss is much less than if you wait until there is a point and make a $125 / $150 / $175 bet on the point. The reason that they rate you higher if you follow the 2nd strategy is that you will lose more money. You are better off following the first strategy and accepting the lower ratings -- your additonal comps won't make up for the additional losses.

Quote: MuggyVan

Understand that it's the same bet you're making with the same risk. The reason why they don't rate you for odds is because you could bet a pass and don't pass place max odds and therefore really maximize your free odds bet, other than the 12 on the come out roll. If you're going to make that $150 wager just do it on the point. And no your expected loss is not greater it's exactly the same on that bet with 3-4-5 odds. You guys don't get it, it's not that complicated with all your calculations. Your telling me it makes sense for you to bet $25 plus your $125 on the odds after a point is established, only to get rated for your $25, rather than placing the $150 that your going to risk anyways with the EXACT SAME PAYOUT, plus the ability to not lock in your flat bet? $150 on 6/8 placed pays you $175, $25 with full odds of $125 pays $175..... Hey go ahead do it your way .... Lol

None of this is right.

Quote: MuggyVan

Understand that it's the same bet you're making with the same risk.

Wow. This couldn't be further from reality and just reinforces that casino employees almost never understand the math behind the games they are offering.

Quote:

The reason why they don't rate you for odds is because you could bet a pass and don't pass place max odds and therefore really maximize your free odds bet,

The reason they don't rate you for odds is because there is no house advantage on the odds bet. It's a $0, 0% proposition for the house and the player.

Quote:

other than the 12 on the come out roll. If you're going to make that $150 wager just do it on the point. And no your expected loss is not greater it's exactly the same on that bet with 3-4-5 odds. You guys don't get it, it's not that complicated with all your calculations. Your telling me it makes sense for you to bet $25 plus your $125 on the odds after a point is established, only to get rated for your $25, rather than placing the $150 that your going to risk anyways with the EXACT SAME PAYOUT, plus the ability to not lock in your flat bet? $150 on 6/8 placed pays you $175, $25 with full odds of $125 pays $175..... Hey go ahead do it your way .... Lol

Yep, that's exactly what we're telling you. Because that $25 occasionally wins another $25 on the come out.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Wow. This couldn't be further from reality and just reinforces that casino employees almost never understand the math behind the games they are offering.

I find this truly amazing. Casinos are the only industry I can think of where the people running the business don't understand how or why they make money.

This is a good thing for us, of course.