Shut the Box -- as a casino game?

Shut the Box:
Given the numbers 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, a player rolls 2 dice, then will "shut" (remove) numbers that total the sum of the dice. Players try to shut all 9 numbers for a perfect game. Remaining numbers are totaled as the player's score, and low score wins.

Just for my own amusement, I've put together a set of rules and wagers that could work in a casino game. It has pros and cons, and probably could use some polishing. I'm not looking to develop this into a real game necessarily, just pipe dreaming.

Pros:

• Has both "Win" and "Lose" type bets, similar to Pass/Don't Pass in Craps.
• Has a prop bet, with the possibility of more
• Has a jackpot bet
• Has HE of 4.1% to 5.8% on bets, with Jackpot bet HE of 39.2%

Cons:

• Games last 2 to 8 rolls before resolution
• Low jackpot (start at $250, increases over time until hit)
• Multiple players could hit high jackpot - All would be payed jackpot amount, not split
• No mid-game prop bets (yet?)

I'm going to try to make a simple Flash version of the game, for ease of demonstration.

Has "Shut the Box" ever been attempted in a casino?
Just from the description above, what are your initial thoughts?
Or, would you need more on game mechanics before weighing in?

Quote: Dween

Shut the Box:
Has "Shut the Box" ever been attempted in a casino?
Just from the description above, what are your initial thoughts?
Or, would you need more on game mechanics before weighing in?

We've sold Shut the Box where I work, and it always sells out very quickly. As a casino game though, I'm just not sure. It might work better as an electronic game where players would have more control... of course, then they might say it's rigged. I know that it's a popular pub game, but that doesn't always transfer as easily to the casino crowd.

If you do go with it, I wish you the best.

I haven't watched in years, but I seem to recall seeing it on The Price Is Right.

I could see Liar's Dice as doing even better, particularly given that a Pirates of the Caribbean tie-in could be worked out. Can get LONG with lots of players involved, though.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I haven't watched in years, but I seem to recall seeing it on The Price Is Right.

It was the endgame on High Rollers. In addition to the traditional rules, rolling doubles (hardways) awarded a bonus roll, and leaving just the "1" standing counted as a win.

I liked High Rollers, hosted by less smug Alex Trebek. :)

Quote: Dween

Has "Shut the Box" ever been attempted in a casino?

Yes, Ladbrokes has it on their site. They don't say what the paytable is, but it's related to the total number of points remaining (presumably, lower total = higher win).
Edit: I should add that Durango Bill has already done the analysis for that version of the game. His page does list the paytable.

It seems as though the Ladbrokes version focuses on two things:

• Points remaining
• Slot Machine-type solo play

My thought is a game that is more like a Craps table environment, with the focus being on how many numbers are eliminated, not the total of those remaining.

In my idea, there are rigid rules (a house way, if you will) on how numbers are eliminated on each roll; No player choice there. The game has escalating payouts for better performance on the "Win" bet, and a flat, high payout for the "Lose" bet.

So instead of a player having the option to opt-out of the game, and settle for less than they wagered as a so-called "win", players keep playing until a bad roll, in the hopes of getting a better payout guaranteed.

7-UP wager
$5 minimum, $1000 maximum
Eliminate 7 numbers, pays 1:2
Eliminate 8 numbers, pays 1:1
Eliminate 9 numbers, pays 3:1
Only highest payout is paid.
House edge: 4.18%

LOW-5 wager
$5 minimum, $1000 maximum
Eliminate 1 to 5 numbers, pays 3:1
House edge: 5.43%

This game's strategy was covered last year here, but without discussing the casino possibility of the game.
' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/all-other/2783-whats-the-strategy-for-this-shut-the-box-game/] previous post

I never thought of this game as a casino game, it's kind of slow moving and simplistic, but may work.
The game is kind of a "break the ice with someone" game at a beer bar, that's how I came across it.

While I can appreciate the need for fixing the choices in order to have a "don't" bet option, I'm not sure a "house way" would translate sucessfully in this game. Early choices on which doors to pick can make a big difference on the outcome. Having a fixed sequence can turn potential winning throws into losers.

The "House Way" for this particular version of Shut-the-Box works as follows:

• Only 1 or 2 numbers may be shut on a roll. No 3 or 4 shuts allowed.
• If the dealer is able to shut a single number, they will do so.
• If the dealer must shut 2 numbers, they will choose the combination with the highest and lowest numbers possible.

Using this set of rules, here are the chances (in %) that x numbers will be shut:

# shut	chance
9	4.886%
8	17.289%
7	27.799%
6	26.384%
5	15.816%
4	5.927%
3	1.449%
2	0.373%
1	0.077%

Have both a "Do" and "Don't" bet in this game means that player control of the number choices would be detrimental in a multi-player (Craps-like) environment. You can't allow another player's actions determine the outcome of your wager.

Playtest the game!
I have posted a "casino version" of Shut the Box. The link above takes you to the post with the live link. Comments should be posted on that thread, as opposed to this one.

Quote: 7outlineaway

It was the endgame on High Rollers. In addition to the traditional rules, rolling doubles (hardways) awarded a bonus roll, and leaving just the "1" standing counted as a win.

Actually, leaving the 1 counted as a loss, at least on the Alex Trebek version (don't remember seeing anyone leaving just one number on the Wink Martindale version) - you got the $800 you would normally get for leaving just one number when you lose. (In its earliest days, they gave away a car for taking off 8 of the 9 numbers.).

(It was also the endgame for most of the run on Las Vegas Gambit.)

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