Game Design Career

Quote: Wizard

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wiz -

Do you mean the Game Inventor's Corner here on WoV? This thread IS in that area, so I'm thinking you mean something else.

I mean the corner at Wizard of Odds.



I moved my consulting site to www.lollipopguild.org/.

Perhaps I will contact you to do math work. Could you do the math for me on what profit I could expect to make if it takes me 3 years to make a casino game?

Quote: heatmap

i wish i could climb that many peaks im jelly

Same, but I'd like to try one day. Never been on a mountain before.

Can someone please help me? The money just doesn't seem right to me. Casino table games make so little money so do the machines also make the same amount? To me, this can't be right because the machines cost a lot more to install (I hope I'm using that word correctly). But then again maybe it is right since the machines take up less space than a table game? To me selling any slot machine for $50 a month sounds like so little profit if any at all.

Quote: HokusPokus

Perhaps I will contact you to do math work. Could you do the math for me on what profit I could expect to make if it takes me 3 years to make a casino game?

Good luck with that. You probably need to expect to pay thousands of dollars for patents and math before you will even know if the game is going to able to get in a casino.

Quote: HokusPokus

You might be right but what jobs did you work? I need a rewarding experience at work to get me by, it's why I choose to be a social worker because I want to make a difference. I have been thinking about going back to school and getting my LCSW or a master's degree so I could become a therapist. I don't feel like my job is currently rewarding at all. I was looking at becoming a game designer as if it was something I could learn on the side while working, something like night school only I don't want to go into debt over a career change.

I’m a doctor... anesthesiologist. I haven’t had a non medical job for 35 years. I felt like I ‘made a difference’. It sounds like to me that you should focus on getting your next degree, so you can get the job you will find rewarding. I think the part time game designers here were firmly established in their ‘regular’ jobs before undertaking the cost and time required to design a game, and actually even get a trial in a real casino.

The math helped you asked for comes at a cost. Wizard and a few others do that work, but I would be stunned if they did it on a contingent basis! The forum will help for free with the occasional simple or interesting question, but not the entire math analysis of a new game.

Quote: HokusPokus

Could you do the math for me on what profit I could expect to make if it takes me 3 years to make a casino game?

Quote: DRich

Good luck with that. You probably need to expect to pay thousands of dollars for patents and math before you will even know if the game is going to able to get in a casino.

Ditto.

Your comment makes me think you haven't really been paying attention to what we've been saying.

There are plenty of people here who will run the math for a new game that they've seen. Some will even do it for a new game concept. And they usually get the math right. But that's not the same as creating a math report and putting a reputation behind it's accuracy. Few people will do that. Of those that will, they don't come cheap.

For what it's worth, there are multiple steps involved in getting a new game into a casino. The odds of success for any step is minimal, and there isn't any step skipping.

Preliminary steps include the math, but also a patent, game description, table layout, and marketing materials. And maybe other things I'm overlooking.

A game description includes how to briefly explain the game to a player, more detail that could be incorporated into a rules hand-out card, and step-by-step of every point and procedure that the dealer must follow.

Only once you have all that do you have something that *MIGHT* be ready to present to a casino game distributor.

Few games get a meeting with a game distributor.
Of those that do, few get deals with the distributor.
Of those that do, few get presented to casino management for consideration.
Of those that do, few get offered a field trial, pending regulatory issues.
Of those that do, some will fail the regulatory requirements.
Of those that pass, few actually get the field trial.
Of those that do, few get successful results.
Of those that do, few get multiple installs.
Of those that do, few last long.
Of those that do, few get widespread distribution.
Of those that do, few generate any sizable return for the inventor.
Of those that do, few turn a profit for the inventor.

A casino insider, such as an employee of a casino or game distributor, might be able to skip the distributor step, but that's about it.

Note that the income part of those steps doesn't begin until the multiple installs step begins, and the first installs will get relatively low payments.

Also note that some of the steps will require fees and expenses. But these should be paid by the distributor (if you didn't skip that step), which will then be deducted from the payments before you get your cut.

Get the math report on a contingency? You’d have a better chance of finding an angel investor who wants to get into the casino business in some small way, and isn’t worried about losing a few grand.

---

I may be accused of tooting my own horn here, but I created Poker For Roulette, a roulette side bet, and Pick A Card, a completely new card game. You can get details for both at my website, http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com

I mention this because I have brief descriptions, as well as detailed descriptions, complete dealer instructions, and down-loadable literature including rule cards. I created all that before I had a meeting with a game distributor.

What my site does NOT feature is a web version of the game. Maybe I'm biased, but I think if you need to create a web version so players get a better feel for the game, then the game isn't simple enough.

Full disclosure: While I had a deal with Galaxy Gaming for my Poker For Roulette side bet, they never produced results. And I've never gotten past shopping my Pick A Card game to a distributor. In other words, I have limited experience, but no success. So take what I say with that in mind.

DJ’s post above is something you should read about 5 times, Hocus.

I bet DJ does not regret for one minute the time and money he put in to trying to make his dream a reality. I’m not sure if this is a ‘dream’ for you, or you just thought it was a better way to make a living than your current job. If it is the former, then I think you could still try in your after work time to work on it. If it is the latter, then I’d say give it up.

Summary... if it is your dream, and not trying will be something you may regret the rest of your life, then go for it, even though the most likely result is failure.

If it is just trying to find a ‘good job’, look elsewhere!

Quote: SOOPOO

I bet DJ does not regret for one minute the time and money he put in to trying to make his dream a reality.

You'd win that bet. No regrets, AT ALL.

Oh, sure, I spent a bunch of money that my wife would have preferred that we put towards fixing up the house and stuff, but even she doesn't regret it. She agrees with me that trying and failing, is far better than not trying, followed by the constant, lingering feeling of, "What if...?"

And I made friends with a bunch of people, both online, and in person during my various Vegas visits to promote my games, that I never would have met.

And I still miss Dan.

Absolutely agree with the above. I sense it's a dream save up, save up a bit more, and then go for it.

I've done maths for a couple of games and an independent analysis is one of those preliminary steps that has to be paid for. All of this is part of the preparation and marketing that needs to be done, covering the legal and technical aspects prior to getting the game into the marketplace.

Some game designers go to various conventions (Las Vegas, London etc.) where new games can be shown and also for networking. I've attended some in the UK and can see how the costs could mount up. (I'm guessing it's much easier for those already in Las Vegas!)

Hi guys, I'm getting a little overwhelmed with the direction of the conversation. Let me clear some things up. I don't have a gambling game for anyone to analyze. I was asking for some projection of what income I can expect to make going down this path. How much can I realistically sell a game to a casino for? How many installs of the game can I expect to get. I'm sure there are plenty of expenses that I need to know but the high in most concerned about is how much money I can expect to make. Is there more money in the machines? I was thinking of making a table game and then making a gaming machine out of it if the machines make more money? Btw, does anyone just decide to make a new game without learning from the pros? I'd very much appreciate any advice, thank you.