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Spongebob
Spongebob
Joined: Jul 22, 2019
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July 26th, 2019 at 4:53:13 PM permalink
Hello everyone! This is my first time posting here at WoV, albeit i'm no stranger to the wizard of odds website itself. For a bit of background, I attended college for 9 years and have been a dealer at Mohegan Sun for the past 3 years. I come here seeking wisdom and a helping hand if that is possible!

My goal is to create a successful casino game(s): rest assured this is a passion of mine that developed while in dealer school as I thrive in abstract thinking and creativity. My occupation as a dealer has shed light on what propensities gamblers have in terms of game preferences and desirable side bets, which I deem to be of great value in regards to success in this endeavor. However, I acquiesce that my knowledge of this entire process from start to finish is infinitesimal, despite having conversed with casino bosses and others who have attempted games of their own.

One of my substantial fears for me is that my idea(s) will be stolen as a result of my own inability to calculate the statistics/probability necessary to ensure a house edge. I'm uncertain if the calculation of odds is a prerequisite to obtaining a patent or not. During dealer school, I had conjured ideas for games, side bets, and progressive bets. One such idea was a progressive for baccarat. Almost a year later, my exact idea for a baccarat progressive had been implemented on our casino floor. I remain uncertain if that idea had somehow been leaked or if it was a genuinely a coincidence. Regardless, rather than be disheartened, it reaffirmed my suspicions that this could be an avenue for me to excel.

The reality for me is that I have no clue how to proceed. Having perused these forums for the last few days, it's clear how almost everyone here usurps my understanding of statistics and probability. My lack of understanding in that department has been the crux of this entire process. What is the best way to proceed? Would it be possible to ask someone here for their helping hand in running the stats in a game that has yet to be patented or protected? I am petrified that my request will be construed as solicitation, even though I'd never feel comfortable about asking for someone's help without returning the favor somehow. I'd gladly offer a percentage of my game in return for having the math proven. Problem is, that would be a risk that has the potential for no reward on behalf of the person running the numbers, as well as being considered soliciting (I think!). I genuinely believe that my idea(s) can and will succeed with proper guidance.

Thank you for taking the time to read my inner monologue if you made it this far! I had initially planned to email the Wizard directly, but opted to post here in the event that it would violate a rule regarding reasons for emailing him. Hopefully this was the best place to make this post. If not, please feel free to reallocate it as you deem necessary. I sincerely hope to hear back and I gladly welcome any feedback. Hope you all have a great day!
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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michael99000Spongebob
July 26th, 2019 at 5:04:29 PM permalink
You need at least a rudimentary understanding of probability and odds to make a successful game in my opinion. You probably have that. Once you have a game designed, there are a bunch of members here, for a fee, that will do a math analysis. Pretty sure our host, The Wizard, still does that occasionally. You will also need someone to give you some 'game protection' advice. There are multiple threads already on here about game design, and we have a bunch of people who have actually designed games that have made it to the casino floors.

In summary, it is a daunting endeavor, and the odds against you succeeding are long. The process is arduous. But good luck, and heed the advice of the many members who are willing to help guide you, if you choose to go down the path....

And welcome to the forum.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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michael99000Zcore13MrCasinoGamesmipletSpongebob
July 26th, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM permalink
Welcome to the forum! It would probably be helpful if you spent some time in the archives of the Game Inventors Corner subforum. There is a lot of discussion of game protection, gaming math, marketing, and steps to patenting the game collected there.

Fwiw, that's exactly the path I took in doing my first game. I used the resources here to find a gaming mathematician (CrystalMath) during development, had CRMousseau do the math reports (he did 2, one proving the HE, the other discussing casino game protection and any vulnerabilities in playing it). Miplet is another good resource for hire.

My patent attorney also came from here. RNewman does a nice job. Jon Muskin (jon) is the other one on here, also the choice of several good game inventors.

Everyone I named has accepted PMs from new members starting to develop games before, and I think would again. IMO, it would not be wise for you to describe specifics of your gsme in a thread just yet. Get some IP protection first. But once you get to that point, people do enjoy discussing the details and permutations you might consider.

I also found a book from Dr. Eliot Jacobson (also a member) to be very useful, though he has pulled it from Amazon sales.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1883423171/ref=mw_dp_olp?ie=UTF8&condition=all

It's still available from 3rd party sellers there.

Also, Dan Lubin wrote a book that was well received.
I think it's also available from the publisher, but here's the amazon listing.
https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Casino-Game-Design-Cocktail/dp/1935396722/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=Dan+Lubin&qid=1564189099&s=books&sr=1-2
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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SpongebobMrCasinoGames
July 26th, 2019 at 6:33:47 PM permalink
patent and copyright law protection does not require proof of the math but you need that to get anywhere trying to sell it. simple collusion proof layouts are important (drunk players but alert surveillance people).
Don't worry about a name, even if you own the name a casino can rename a game during trials.
good luck.
Spongebob
Spongebob
Joined: Jul 22, 2019
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beachbumbabs
July 27th, 2019 at 3:52:15 PM permalink
Thank you all for the welcoming and objective responses you've given! I arbitrarily replied to this message because I couldn't figure out how to simply post a new message in the same thread. It might have something to do with chronic sleep issues pertaining to working 3rd shift... anyway! I will take heed of the advice that's been provided here. Due diligence is of the essence and it seems prudent to not rush through this process. I'm ecstatic to begin this journey and hope that I can make some friends along the way. Have a great day!
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
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mrsuit31Spongebob
July 31st, 2019 at 5:08:30 PM permalink
There are lots of people on this site who will help you. I will be happy to answer questions via PM or in thread. Mr. Suit31 also has a great wealth of information.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
Spongebob
Spongebob
Joined: Jul 22, 2019
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July 31st, 2019 at 5:43:37 PM permalink
Thank you for the kind words! I'm trying to fight off an ear infection at the moment, but i'd love to utilize that offer in the near future. Conversely, feel free to PM or message me on this thread with any inquiries. Any and all help is always vastly appreciated.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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MrCasinoGamesSpongebob
July 31st, 2019 at 6:04:47 PM permalink
Welcome. You will find no shortage of info here. One suggestion is think market as well as math. The math can probably always be worked with. Making a game people like, that is harder.

I have a few personal suggestions here. First, the last thing the industry needs is another poker-based carnival game. TCP is hot right now, but IMHO we are near a limit on how many ways poker games can be sliced and diced. When and if someone figures out the new thing they will do well.

You have to be able to explain it in about a minute and get someone up and playing in less than five. I teach people how to play, most do not want to learn a ton of things when they are out to enjoy themselves. Thus be careful with too many bets or too many "steps" to the game. Market to the majority,
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Spongebob
Spongebob
Joined: Jul 22, 2019
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July 31st, 2019 at 7:16:47 PM permalink
Hello AZduffman! You make many astute points. Fortuitously, my ideas were predicated around evrything you have mentioned. I've seen games come in and leave in my short tenure as a dealer. In fact, the creators of 3 card blitz had created a game that fizzled out quickly after it's inception. The name of that game was extreme 3 card poker.

I recall asking a few questions pertaining to creating games with those that created 3 card blitz (I believe it was inbet gaming or something similar). Their answers to some my questions still befuddle me. When asked who their target audience was, one guy replied that they were ONLY interested in weekend gamblers. I have yet to adequately process the thought behind that statement.

I also have ideas that are in the vicinity of new territory. One such idea is centered around a new concept (not cards, dice, tiles, etc.) I really enjoy talking about these kind of things. With that in mind, I welcome any input and would enjoy talking about these things with anyone who is interested. Thank you for your feedback and see ya around!
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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MrCasinoGamesSpongebob
August 1st, 2019 at 9:35:55 AM permalink
Quote: Spongebob

Hello AZduffman! You make many astute points. Fortuitously, my ideas were predicated around evrything you have mentioned. I've seen games come in and leave in my short tenure as a dealer. In fact, the creators of 3 card blitz had created a game that fizzled out quickly after it's inception. The name of that game was extreme 3 card poker.

I recall asking a few questions pertaining to creating games with those that created 3 card blitz (I believe it was inbet gaming or something similar). Their answers to some my questions still befuddle me. When asked who their target audience was, one guy replied that they were ONLY interested in weekend gamblers. I have yet to adequately process the thought behind that statement.

I also have ideas that are in the vicinity of new territory. One such idea is centered around a new concept (not cards, dice, tiles, etc.) I really enjoy talking about these kind of things. With that in mind, I welcome any input and would enjoy talking about these things with anyone who is interested. Thank you for your feedback and see ya around!



an idea using a new methodology could be huge if successful but will be tougher in the beginning. The red tape to get a new device approved by gaming would be the toughest part. Then you would have to find a manufacturer that can produce a casino grade item and get licensed to sell casino equipment.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW

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