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Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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November 7th, 2010 at 11:14:57 PM permalink
You'll make more money pitching you game to a board game production company. There is room for baseball and football simulations out there from the basic to the advanced, but the market is niche and more money may mean "a few bucks and a published game".

I read through half the rules and there's no casino game there at all, and that's based on my assumption no-one really wants to read much more than 4 lines of basic rules for a gambling game.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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November 8th, 2010 at 12:16:34 AM permalink
Very true.

I just looked at the site, typing in "casino" and "table" in all fields. There 3,350 responses.
The 100 most recent UTILITY patents stem from mid August.

Assuming that it's approximately $10,000 per full filing, that's $1,000,000 in legals fees, and none of them might make it.
Something to ponder. (edit: and a few are updates or new filings by industry heavy weights)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Joined: Sep 27, 2010
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November 8th, 2010 at 12:27:53 PM permalink
I skimmed the patents that were cited in this thread. I don't know the inventors but I do happen to know the patent attorneys they used for their patent work. If the inventors happened to be lawyers as well, then I guess they heeded the old saying that the lawyer who represents themself has a fool for a client. Other than a patent attorney who is just into developing games, there are actually 2 main instances I can think of in which patent attorney naturally becomes creative. The first is when drafting a patent application. In my experience, good patent lawyers will routinely add features and variations of the invention or otherwise find ways to broaden the description of the invention. Without getting too detailed, this is usually done to either fully enable the invention or in an attempt to obtain broader and/or stronger rights for the client should the patent ever be litigated. The other time a patent lawyer can crossover to the development side is when advising on "design-around" options, that is, changing your invention in a way so that it avoids infringing someone else's patent. Every so often, these circumstances result in the patent attorney contributing something that requires naming them as a joint inventor.

I do know a few patent lawyers that have come up with successful games as game developers. I know a few titled game designers that have come up with successful games. Each of them can list the many great games they came up with that they thought would definitely work but failed. I call a successful game any game that has longevity, say over a year, in multiple jurisdictions or at least more than one casino. To put this in perspective, the VP of game development at a major gaming supplier told me a few years ago that 1 in 12 to 1 in 15 of the games they put out are successful. He recently told me it's been more like 1 in 100 in the last year or so. Maybe there's some psychological explanation - perhaps sticking with the old standby games is analogous to eating comfort food during tough times. Or maybe their just pushing bad games. Whatever the reason, this statistic comes from the VP at a company that enjoys a clear advantage as a result of their market position and existing distribution network, so their games should have a better chance to succeed than others because of the force they can put behind it. As someone alluded to in this thread there definitely seems to be a difference between the type of game that works in a casino and other games. And even some games that might work in an off-strip casino will not work on the strip, or vice versa. The games that have had success seem to me to be almost directed to a particular type of player.
Joined: Sep 13, 2010
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November 9th, 2010 at 1:01:20 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

I love dice games, and I think the casino industry needs at least one more good one (Sic Bo doesn't count). I'm just not convinced that trying to repurpose craps will cut it. Craps has been reworked multiple times (Die Rich, Crapless, Scarney) and none of those versions ever really dented the penetration of the original.

I don't thank a new dice games can make it to the Casino.

Here is one of my dice game Casino Poker-Dice
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®)
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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November 9th, 2010 at 2:02:01 AM permalink
The thing is - we just don't know what will or will not make it in a casino, we really don't.

We have ideas, beliefs, opinions. We might know what's bad, but we don't know what's good, what will be a hit, until 25+ installs occur and we can see the data. That's it.

My opinion is that a good new side bet for craps or roulette is doable, especially a progressive for roulette (hello Dave M.) And Pai Gow poker only has the standard "positive" progressive - which pretty much covers the regular bonus bet anyway; it "might" take a bad beat progressive, a la regular poker.

Blackjack is overflowing with side bets and variations; but Instant 18 made some inroads. Good for GN! (Gaming Network.)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
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November 3rd, 2011 at 7:58:40 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

I don't think a new dice game can make it to the Casino.

How about Hard Luck?

Two players: dealer (designated dice thrower) and banker, two dice each. Object: throw a higher sum than opponent. Win pays even money.

Tie-sums (146 in all) happen three ways:

(1) hard-hard (all four dice same, a quadruple) = pay even money to both Dealer and Banker bets (6 ways)

(2) easy-easy, same combo (two-pair X&Y) = take half from both (60 ways)

(3) easy-easy, diff. combo (one-pair X&Y=S, one pair W&Z=S) = higher-order combo wins (80 ways in all, 40 behooving each).

Definition: higher order = having smaller difference between numbers on each die. For example: 3&3 beats 2&4 and 1&5, 2&4 beats 1&5. Thus, hardways would be a special case included in the rule. Very simple to use, actually.

House edge on the above description = 1.85%

Side bets

(1) Spread - difference between dice sums - pays on a scale as follows (HA = 11.73% / HA = 2.78%):

10-Spread (maximum, 2 possible ways) 80 to 1 / 84 to 1
9-Spread (8 ways) 20 to 1 / 21 to 1
8-Spread (20 ways) 8 to 1 / 42 to 5
7-Spread (40 ways) 4 to 1 / 21 to 5
6-Spread (70 ways) 2 to 1 / 12 to 5
5-Spread (minimum, 112 ways) 1 to 1 / 3 to 2

(2) Chance - four-die outcome, regardless of which dice are whose

Any Triple (X&X&X&Y, 120 ways) pays 2 to 1
Any Two-Pair (X&X&Y&Y, 90 ways) pays 3 to 1
Any Straight (1&2&3&4, 2&3&4&5, or 3&4&5&6, 72 ways in all) pays 4 to 1
Any Quadruple (X&X&X&X, 6 ways, obviously) pays 23 to 1 (HA = 5.56%) or 29 to 1 (HA = 2.78%)

(3) Above- or Below-14: four-die total of greater than or less than 14, each pays even money (HA = 11.27%) or 6 to 5 (HA = 2.39%)

Dealer chooses which dice to be his own and throws both his own and the banker's dice (to keep the appearance of absolute honesty). Keeps dice as long as the Dealer bets continue to win (Like-combo tie with banker counts as a loss).
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 3rd, 2011 at 11:07:18 AM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

How about Hard Luck?

Didn't you already start a thread for this topic?

In fact, you started TWO of them!

This one: already had several replies.
I invented a few casino games. Info: 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
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April 15th, 2012 at 4:42:37 PM permalink
Well I went ahead and created a prototype for how wagering would work with my game. Try it out guys! Here is the direct link:

I don't expect to see my game in a casino ever, but I know it's a unique game that can be enjoyed by all kinds of game enthusiasts. Full launch soon!

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