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MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 1st, 2016 at 11:52:32 AM permalink
Keep on posting your so-called "spiteful slime."

More! More!

I made money on NTEK, and wouldn't mind a repeat.
"What, me worry?"
Skeptic
Skeptic
Joined: Dec 9, 2015
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September 1st, 2016 at 12:05:21 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

I made money on NTEK, and wouldn't mind a repeat.



And that is the big ethical question. Does one choose to profit knowing the proceeds are coming from an ongoing crime in progress?

Here's a hypothetical:

While walking down the street one day you notice a person being mugged up ahead. Do you:

A.) Report the crime you are witnessing to authorities, maybe do what you can to intervene directly.

B.) Warn the people walking behind you that they too will also be robbed if they continue down the current path.

C.) Quietly lurk in the shadows until the robbery is over hoping the thief drops some of the stolen loot so you can keep it for yourself; also hoping the people walking behind you get robbed too.


That is exactly what is taking place with these OTC scams and the people pumping them on the internet.
Last edited by: Skeptic on Sep 1, 2016
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 1st, 2016 at 12:40:49 PM permalink
Quote: Skeptic

And that is the big ethical question. Does one choose to profit knowing the proceeds are coming from an ongoing crime that is ripping off people who are the least likely to be able to afford it (the uneducated, naive and the elderly being their primary targets)?



I have little sympathy for someone investing in a penny stock who cannot afford to lose the entire invested amount.
Skeptic
Skeptic
Joined: Dec 9, 2015
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September 1st, 2016 at 12:56:39 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I have little sympathy for someone investing in a penny stock who cannot afford to lose the entire invested amount.



The problem is most people do not understand that the vast majority of OTC stocks (if not all of them) are complete scams. Go back to the beginning of this thread for evidence of very smart people who doubted this type of rampant fraud is even allowed and who considered NTEK and NTGL to be sound investments.

The only way for flippers to succeed is for other people to actually believe the lies, buy more than they can afford to lose, keep buying more and then hold forever all the way down to zero. If it weren't for the marks every one of these scams would collapse immediately on top of the people trying to flip them. The NTEK fraud has been going on for four years now?

There are already several documented cases of many people losing well into the 6-figure range on NTEK and at least two destroyed marriages. That's just from the people willing to post about it publicly.

There are something like 25,000 tickers trading on the OTC alone (not counting the NASDAQ and NYSE). The SEC has about 300 total lawyers on their payroll.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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September 1st, 2016 at 1:02:40 PM permalink
Quote: Skeptic

The problem is most people do not understand that the vast majority of OTC stocks (if not all of them) are complete scams. Go back to the beginning of this thread for evidence of very smart people who doubted this type of rampant fraud is even allowed and considered NTEK and NTGL to be sound investments.



I stand by my initial comment. If you cannot afford to lose the entire amount invested, you have no business investing in a penny stock. I would say the same for someone 'investing' in a MegaBucks slot machine.
Skeptic
Skeptic
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September 1st, 2016 at 1:10:28 PM permalink
I agree with that. People have a reasonable expectation that that Megabucks slot machine is fair. They know the rules of that game and expect the machine will also follow the rules.

Would you have sympathy for someone who lost after sitting at a rigged blackjack table where the dealer and other players were all conspiring together to steal that person's money?

The amount being lost is irrelevant. Whether they could afford to lose it or not makes no difference in my opinion.
sammydv
sammydv
Joined: Mar 25, 2016
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 607
September 1st, 2016 at 1:31:51 PM permalink
Quote: Skeptic

And that is the big ethical question. Does one choose to profit knowing the proceeds are coming from an ongoing crime in progress?

Here's a hypothetical:

While walking down the street one day you notice a person being mugged up ahead. Do you:

A.) Report the crime you are witnessing to authorities, maybe do what you can to intervene directly.

B.) Warn the people walking behind you that they too will also be robbed if they continue down the current path.

C.) Quietly lurk in the shadows until the robbery is over hoping the thief drops some of the stolen loot so you can keep it for yourself; also hoping the people walking behind you get robbed too.


That is exactly what is taking place with these OTC scams and the people pumping them on the internet.



While your points are valid, but a couple of comments.

When a person is a non professional retail common share buyer, who by and large doesn't look at the companies themselves and for whatever reasons of their own, do not bother to do any research on a company of a stock they're thinking of buying. ( I never knowingly say investing, as pinks are gambling IMO.). And that person just skims internet chat boards and stock tout sites for instant information and buys because of the momo and may not even follow any boards regularly when they buy. I would not categorize these types of people (myself included) as any kind of criminals or vultures. Just opportunists. And mostly in street name with their brokers. Now with experience, I may look at a company fundamentals, see that there aren't any and the company is a fraud and may jump in to flip the momo. This is not criminal, I'm not taking money out of peoples pockets, I'm buying on the market using timing. The criminals are the ceo's and insiders and their paid promoters who all got free shares and frontloaded BECAUSE they knew they were going to lie to the public about it. I got the information at the same time the rest of the public did. I, an independent stock flipper is acting at the same time and with the same knowledge as the rest of the public. What makes me different, is I decide that the company is a scam and get out with profit.

Where the questionable behavior comes in, certainly immoral, and becoming more recognized as criminal is the enterprises and groups who manipulate the company information to move the market using false facts and disinformation to 'fool' the reading public. This would be from the top - the ceo and officers of the company, all the way down to the independent boiler rooms and pump and dump stock websites touting this or that stock. And everywhere in between where people have influence on what to disseminate to the general population. Including 'pump clowns' who are paid shills for companies to operate shareholder awareness campaigns. The crime here is all these people know their information, products and or services are a fraud.

Telling the story is the art. Going dark and not filing with any government agencies who hold the companies responsible for their fin numbers like NTEK, who went dark in 2012. Getting legit information is extremely difficult or impossible and the only info published is by paid insiders usually.

This is an experienced penny stock tip concerning the world of internet shills and forum boards... when a person defends, promotes or claims contact with officers of said company on open public stock forums and internet sites, it's almost 100% these people are lairs whose only interest and job when working for the company, is for people to buy all their free shares.
There is no other responsible, conductive or sane reason for a shareholder to pump or defend a known red flag company except to make you buy their free stock.

Again, probably 80+% of the posters on stock tout boards are involved with the companies they are protecting and promoting. And there really is no such thing as a paid basher or naked- air shares. It's perfectly legal to short stock.

The deal with NTEK, like other probable scams is they are new in the beginning and there's NO information out there to compare. I got in way back when it jumped to .17 for a few weeks. But way early because I know about that biz and was interested in what they were doing at the time. Ntgl wasn't even thought about.
There was NO INFO to check on, ntek was doing the next new thing..blah blah. But when I saw the red flags very early on, I got immediately out and never looked back. Dave Foley was in litigation a long time and was again following what got him in trouble originally. That was not being transparent, broken promises and on and on.

If anyone cares to, look at the dates of Foleys final court fights and failure to stop his sentencing and the creation of Royal Capital AND Ntgl. Also at the same time Dave and his brother opened new off shore accounts. It was said then and proved that RC was Dave Foley and created just after he knew he lost the fight to keep himself out of jail. It's even documented (on the internet) that df lied about everything concerning his litigation problems, including repeated claims of never going to jail, not guilty, etc etc.

And time finally bore that out that ntek was probably never seriously going to be a marketable ongoing enterprise, but only a atm for the foley family. There is no more ntgl as it was booted out of the rental office.
Ntek is dark now for months with no one picking up the phone. No new content since last year. Foley has a history of Bk'g companies and personal, so that's a good possibility in the near future.

Every thing I've commented on is on pacer and other courts.

gl
sammydv
sammydv
Joined: Mar 25, 2016
  • Threads: 9
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September 1st, 2016 at 1:51:03 PM permalink
Quote: Skeptic

snip>
The only way for flippers to succeed is for other people to actually believe the lies, buy more than they can afford to lose, keep buying more and then hold forever all the way down to zero. If it weren't for the marks every one of these scams would collapse immediately on top of the people trying to flip them. The NTEK fraud has been going on for four years now?



Ntek in some form or another has been around almost 10 years or more. And that's a good point, somebody is buying and flippers need the pulse to profit. If it isn't moving, I'm not getting in to flip.

The thing is who's selling the 100' of million a day in some scams. The insiders and officers of the company that's who, with all their free shares. It's called toxic financing and dilution. The shares are FREE, so selling 10's of millions at .00001 still makes them money. That's why stock looks like it's stuck at .0001. It's not, the insiders are moving the stock in the 5th decimal because they can. Retail street traders aren't allowed to do that. Cash account not at all. You would need in most brokerages, over 25G's ongoing in your account to even short a stock and to buy/sell in 5th decimal. At least the last time I bothered to check.

gl
sammydv
sammydv
Joined: Mar 25, 2016
  • Threads: 9
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September 1st, 2016 at 1:52:42 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I stand by my initial comment. If you cannot afford to lose the entire amount invested, you have no business investing in a penny stock. I would say the same for someone 'investing' in a MegaBucks slot machine.



Great point, penny stock and casino's are one and the same.
The scam company holds the cards and makes the rules and so does the casino.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
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September 1st, 2016 at 1:54:04 PM permalink
Quote: sammydv

While your points are valid, but a couple of comments.

When a person is a non professional retail common share buyer, who by and large doesn't look at the companies themselves and for whatever reasons of their own, do not bother to do any research on a company of a stock they're thinking of buying. ( I never knowingly say investing, as pinks are gambling IMO.). And that person just skims internet chat boards and stock tout sites for instant information and buys because of the momo and may not even follow any boards regularly when they buy. I would not categorize these types of people (myself included) as any kind of criminals or vultures. Just opportunists. And mostly in street name with their brokers. Now with experience, I may look at a company fundamentals, see that there aren't any and the company is a fraud and may jump in to flip the momo. This is not criminal, I'm not taking money out of peoples pockets, I'm buying on the market using timing. The criminals are the ceo's and insiders and their paid promoters who all got free shares and frontloaded BECAUSE they knew they were going to lie to the public about it. I got the information at the same time the rest of the public did. I, an independent stock flipper is acting at the same time and with the same knowledge as the rest of the public. What makes me different, is I decide that the company is a scam and get out with profit.

Where the questionable behavior comes in, certainly immoral, and becoming more recognized as criminal is the enterprises and groups who manipulate the company information to move the market using false facts and disinformation to 'fool' the reading public. This would be from the top - the ceo and officers of the company, all the way down to the independent boiler rooms and pump and dump stock websites touting this or that stock. And everywhere in between where people have influence on what to disseminate to the general population. Including 'pump clowns' who are paid shills for companies to operate shareholder awareness campaigns. The crime here is all these people know their information, products and or services are a fraud.

Telling the story is the art. Going dark and not filing with any government agencies who hold the companies responsible for their fin numbers like NTEK, who went dark in 2012. Getting legit information is extremely difficult or impossible and the only info published is by paid insiders usually.

This is an experienced penny stock tip concerning the world of internet shills and forum boards... when a person defends, promotes or claims contact with officers of said company on open public stock forums and internet sites, it's almost 100% these people are lairs whose only interest and job when working for the company, is for people to buy all their free shares.
There is no other responsible, conductive or sane reason for a shareholder to pump or defend a known red flag company except to make you buy their free stock.

Again, probably 80+% of the posters on stock tout boards are involved with the companies they are protecting and promoting. And there really is no such thing as a paid basher or naked- air shares. It's perfectly legal to short stock.

The deal with NTEK, like other probable scams is they are new in the beginning and there's NO information out there to compare. I got in way back when it jumped to .17 for a few weeks. But way early because I know about that biz and was interested in what they were doing at the time. Ntgl wasn't even thought about.
There was NO INFO to check on, ntek was doing the next new thing..blah blah. But when I saw the red flags very early on, I got immediately out and never looked back. Dave Foley was in litigation a long time and was again following what got him in trouble originally. That was not being transparent, broken promises and on and on.

If anyone cares to, look at the dates of Foleys final court fights and failure to stop his sentencing and the creation of Royal Capital AND Ntgl. Also at the same time Dave and his brother opened new off shore accounts. It was said then and proved that RC was Dave Foley and created just after he knew he lost the fight to keep himself out of jail. It's even documented (on the internet) that df lied about everything concerning his litigation problems, including repeated claims of never going to jail, not guilty, etc etc.

And time finally bore that out that ntek was probably never seriously going to be a marketable ongoing enterprise, but only a atm for the foley family. There is no more ntgl as it was booted out of the rental office.
Ntek is dark now for months with no one picking up the phone. No new content since last year. Foley has a history of Bk'g companies and personal, so that's a good possibility in the near future.

Every thing I've commented on is on pacer and other courts.

gl



Hey, sammy! Guess what? This is a terrific post. Thanks for taking the time. Some is factual, some is opinion driven by facts and experience, adds a lot to the conversation. Some is review of what you've said before, but in context and dispassionate.

No condescension or sarcasm intended. I appreciate it.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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