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steeldco
steeldco
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August 10th, 2016 at 1:29:11 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Regarding valuation, the rule of thumb is that something is worth what you can get somebody else to pay for it. So if anybody can suggest a simpler formula than share price * number of shares, I'm all ears.



I wholeheartedly disagree. If my father found a Van Gogh in the attic and then sold it in a garage sale for $10 then that would not mean that it is worth $10. If you were to change your statement to "what two, or more, reasonable and informed, parties would agree to as a price", then I would go along with that.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Aug 10, 2016
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 10th, 2016 at 4:36:27 PM permalink
Quote: Skeptic

The current price is determined by the last trade. A better indicator is looking at the Bid and Ask prices - the Bid is the price someone is willing to pay right now while the Ask is the price someone is willing to sell for right now.



What are the bid and ask prices for NTEK now?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 10th, 2016 at 4:37:54 PM permalink
Quote: steeldco

I wholeheartedly disagree. If my father found a Van Gogh in the attic and then sold it in a garage sale for $10 then that would not mean that it is worth $10. If you were to change your statement to "what two, or more, reasonable and informed, parties would agree to as a price", then I would go along with that.



$10 isn't what he could get for it. He could get way more at the next serious art auction. I don't think I should need to qualify everything I say with obvious caveats.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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August 10th, 2016 at 4:48:23 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


2. Let's say I have a million shares and desperately need cash. How would I sell them and what price would I get?



Today around 500,000 shares were traded, with the last trade at 4 cents. So the total value of the shares traded is only around $20,000.
If you "had" to sell 1,000,000 shares, it would be hard to find buyers anywhere near the 4 cent mark. Just a guess, but flooding the market with twice what is usually traded in a single day would drop the price substantially, and my novice guess would put it between 3 and 3.5 cents per share.
sammydv
sammydv
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August 10th, 2016 at 8:17:46 PM permalink
Quote: steeldco

Wow, with all due respect, your point above is so far out in left field that I couldn't even begin. Suffice to say that market cap most of the time doesn't accurately reflect what a company's value is, even though it should. This occurs mostly with micros, small, and medium cap companies. The reason? Most people can't correctly assess future value. That's why money is made in public markets. A company's assets and liabilities are just a couple of components of a company's value. To top it all off, nobody in their right mind would view market cap as you present it, except for those who like to buy and sell based on pictures. To them, it doesn't matter what the value is. It's whether a chart looks a certain way.



With all due respect, you are entirely missing the point about MC and penny shells. We are NOT talking about real companies, real property or even whether some analyst figures value on turkey chins. I am discussing using MC as some sort of reliable value indicator of a probable fake company. MC is used by penny stock promoters to lie to potential buyers/traders of their clients stock. And no, market cap 'shouldn't' be any kind of accurate indicator of a companies market or corp worth. MC is an invented indicator to move stock. Period. Like a ton of other indicators that are useless because they attempt to predict value from other vague data.

Again, trying to relate pink sheet shells to exchange companies and viewing MC as a reliable decision making tool is useless. When dealing with pink sheet companies who print 10's of millions, even billions of shares to themselves almost any time they want to ... yea yea, I know, there are rules, but scams don't think the rules are for them. When dealing with these faux companies, one does not discuss earned percents, insurance factors or fundamentals as almost all shells don't have income statements that are audited and with the SEC. Most are dark filers and de-listed from the SEC. Mostly 100% by their own doing to hide from the public and the SEC of their dealings.

I find that one of the biggest mistakes people like yourself make is trying to do comparative thinking of a real company to a pink sheet shell company. One can not compare a soap box car to a Mercedes. Or expect it to operate like one.
sammydv
sammydv
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August 10th, 2016 at 8:27:44 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Today around 500,000 shares were traded, with the last trade at 4 cents. So the total value of the shares traded is only around $20,000.
If you "had" to sell 1,000,000 shares, it would be hard to find buyers anywhere near the 4 cent mark. Just a guess, but flooding the market with twice what is usually traded in a single day would drop the price substantially, and my novice guess would put it between 3 and 3.5 cents per share.



That's too broad a statement when discussing otc listed stock, note, I didn't say exchange stocks. I'm not going to do it, but one could easily list 20 otc/pink stocks that moved 100 million shares each today and the pps didn't move off of .0002.
What you describe would be a stock with a low outstanding amount and thinly traded. ntek is not thinly traded for the most part, and it has at least 5 BILLION in the market.
wellwellwell
wellwellwell
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August 10th, 2016 at 9:04:25 PM permalink
sammydv

NTEK never had 5 billion shares outstanding.

Before the 1 for 25.1 reverse split done a couple of weeks ago they had around 2 billion outstanding.

After the reverse split there are approximately 80 million shares outstanding plus the 8 million or so that have been dumped on the market since the RS. The authorized is now 499 million so FelonFoley and company have a lot of room to dilute the remaining shareholders and future gullible buyers of this scam.
sammydv
sammydv
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August 10th, 2016 at 11:06:28 PM permalink
Quote: wellwellwell

sammydv

NTEK never had 5 billion shares outstanding.

Before the 1 for 25.1 reverse split done a couple of weeks ago they had around 2 billion outstanding.

After the reverse split there are approximately 80 million shares outstanding plus the 8 million or so that have been dumped on the market since the RS. The authorized is now 499 million so FelonFoley and company have a lot of room to dilute the remaining shareholders and future gullible buyers of this scam.


There is no way to know for sure what they have. ntek does not report to any official agency. And the TA is gagged.

http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/NTEK/profile

They raised the auth to 500 million AFTER the r/s, or actually at the same time, which is the equivalent of 12 billion shares pre split. Sorry I wasn't clear on that statement.
steeldco
steeldco
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August 11th, 2016 at 4:11:35 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

$10 isn't what he could get for it. He could get way more at the next serious art auction. I don't think I should need to qualify everything I say with obvious caveats.



So you are saying that what he "could" get would set the value? Really? So if my father sold that Van Gogh that he found at $100M then that would be its value? Wow. Really? Even though an informed art expert may say that it is only worth $20M? You're saying that value is only set if the price is high and not low?
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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August 11th, 2016 at 5:54:09 AM permalink
I would say that 'value' is definitively established at the moment of sale. At any other moment one can only speak of 'estimated value'.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F

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