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hwccdealer
hwccdealer
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September 16th, 2014 at 4:27:28 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" I've never seen anything like what I'm about to suggest anywhere and almost wonder why no one's thought of it. "

Yeah ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_%28card_game%29



It's similar to what I suggested but different enough. It would be as if I spun two roulette balls, one white and one red, and paid the white ball even money, took the red ball, and pushed everything else. It would be a bigger grind than Pai Gow and probably not nearly profitable enough even if, say, there was a 5% commission taken from winnings.
Spinner14
Spinner14
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September 19th, 2014 at 4:33:06 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Must be an older casino. The newer tribal compacts all have bans on card roulette (as well as electronic roulette and pretty much every other kind of roulette).



Hi TDG, not sure where you've gotten that information but card roulette is quite popular in CA (ask INAG) and almost every tribal casino operates one or more vendors' versions of electronic roulette, be it with or without an automated wheel. Been in California recently?

Spinner
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ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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September 19th, 2014 at 7:07:00 PM permalink
Quote: Spinner14

Hi TDG, not sure where you've gotten that information but card roulette is quite popular in CA (ask INAG) and almost every tribal casino operates one or more vendors' versions of electronic roulette, be it with or without an automated wheel. Been in California recently?


The last time I was in California was right about...now...no, wait...now. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I am in California as I type this - in fact, I live here. Either that, or somebody in Sacramento owes me for all of those 540 forms I've been filing for the last 30 years...

Anyway, I got the information from the list of tribal compacts - and you are also right in that "almost every tribal casino operates one or more vendors' versions of electronic roulette"; of the 72 compacts, only seven have the "no roulette" provision:
Quote:

Sec. 3.1. Authorized Class III Gaming.

(a) The Tribe is hereby authorized to operate only the following Gaming Activities under the terms and conditions set forth in this Compact:

(1) Gaming Devices.

(2) Any banking or percentage card games.

(3) Any devices or games that are authorized under state law to the California State Lottery, provided that the Tribe will not offer such games through use of the Internet unless others in the State are permitted to do so under state and federal law.

(b) Nothing herein shall be construed to preclude the Tribe from offering class II gaming or preclude the negotiation of a separate compact governing the conduct of off-track wagering at the Gaming Facility.

(c) Nothing herein shall be construed to authorize the operation of the game known as roulette, whether or not played with or on a mechanical, electro-mechanical, electrical, or video device, or cards, or any combination of such devices, or the operation of any game that incorporates the physical use of a die or dice.

(d) The Tribe shall not engage in Class III Gaming that is not expressly authorized in this section and section 4.1
{which refers to how many gaming devices the tribe is allowed}.


As far as I can tell, only five casinos must operate under this condition:
  • Red Hawk Casino (Placerville - compact amended 11/15/2012)
  • Running Creek Casino (upper Clear Lake - 3/17/2011)
  • Graton Rancheria (near Santa Rosa - 3/27/2012)
  • Coyote Valley Casino (near Lake Mendocino - amended 7/27/2012)
  • Winnedumah Winn's Casino (Independence - 2/28/2013)
The other two compacts are for the Ramona Band of Cahuilla (Riverside county - 6/10/2013) and Pinoleville Pomo (Ukiah - 8/8/2011), but I don't think either one has a casino open yet.

Note that the two amended compacts did not have the ban in their original versions, which leads me to think that any tribe that wants to amend its compact (say, to increase the number of slot machines it is allowed) will have to have this ban included.

Notice that all of these compacts have one thing in common - they were all signed or amended after Governor Brown took office. None of the compacts under Governor Schwarzenegger have this restriction. I'm not saying that it was necessarily Brown's idea (for all I know, it was Lieutenant Governor Newsom's idea); I'm just pointing this out.
Spinner14
Spinner14
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September 22nd, 2014 at 9:18:21 AM permalink
Good research TDG and cheers for being in the state.

I thought I saw IB roulette the last time I was at Red Hawk earlier this year?
Everyone's an expert.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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September 23rd, 2014 at 6:55:38 PM permalink
Quote: Spinner14

I thought I saw IB roulette the last time I was at Red Hawk earlier this year?


Could it have been last year? The most recent amendment didn't take effect until late May, 2013. The casino's website has a roulette page, but it is empty, and there is no link to it from its list of table games; also, a link to an IB Roulette page on the website returns a 403 (Forbidden to Access) error. It's also possible that the machines were there but the game just wasn't operating.

Red Hawk does have card craps, which is legal (as is electronic craps) as long as they don't use actual dice in any way (including just to determine which cards are drawn). The casino's website says it uses "two six-sided random number generators."
Spinner14
Spinner14
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September 24th, 2014 at 8:45:55 AM permalink
TDG,

It was december last I was there; IB Roulette was in use at that time anyway.
Everyone's an expert.
Riva
Riva
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September 24th, 2014 at 9:36:32 AM permalink
I like it however, if I were you I would shave my payouts across the board by about 30%. :)
hwccdealer
hwccdealer
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September 24th, 2014 at 9:51:45 AM permalink
Quote: Riva

I like it however, if I were you I would shave my payouts across the board by about 30%. :)



You run a church carnival, don't you?

Yes, if I ran it at church, I would shave the payouts or display lower ones. I would probably include the jokers, pay a straight-up hit 40-1, a split or a joker 20-1, a rank 10-1, and a suit 2-1. I would probably exclude red/black payoffs.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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September 25th, 2014 at 4:12:55 PM permalink
Quote: Spinner14

TDG,

It was december last I was there; IB Roulette was in use at that time anyway.


Somebody posted on Yelp that they played electronic roulette there earlier this month (September 2014). If it's not still there (and if it was, then why would all references to it be removed from its website?), then maybe they had some sort of "phase-out" period. Either that, or they could always say, "Oh, well, er, uh, um, we didn't see that change in the compact."

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