JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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January 6th, 2016 at 3:43:50 PM permalink
A little over a year ago, I posted this comment:

Quote: JohnnyQ

As far as whether the Diamond Tier benefits will be of value to me, I don't think I can know until (if) I reach the Diamond Level. So I may try to use the bonus points to get to Diamond early in 2015.

So I did end up reaching the Diamond Level in early March of 2015, just before my first trip to Vegas.

There is a Horseshoe not too far from where we live, and at the time, they had $ 1 9/6 Jacks or Better (it was changed to a crappy paytable shortly afterwards) with $ 10 coin-in for each tier credit. So that was my game of choice. One afternoon/evening/night after work, I racked up 2500 tier credits ie 5000 hands worth of VP (yeah, quite a grind and a long night), which "earned" another 5000 bonus tier credits.

Bonus Tier Credits Explained

Expected Loss:

9/6 JoB has an optimum play pay-out of 99.54 % IF you hit the Royal, which comes around in the long term about every 40,388 hands. I didn't. So subtracting off the 1.98 % contribution of the RF, the return becomes 97.6 %. Or for 2500 hands at $ 5 a pop, an expected loss of about $ 610. And that gets you HALF the way there assuming you only play two 2500 tier credit marathon sessions.

I think most of the forum members know all that. I just mention it because getting to Diamond Level comes with a cost. But I enjoy playing Video Poker, and the losses I incurred were well with-in my comfort level ( of course, I would have been MORE comfortable if I had somehow come out ahead ! ). Maybe next time ? ? ?

So were the Diamond Level benefits worth it to me ?

Yes, overall for me, they were. They make my trips to Vegas more enjoyable. AND this year, I made 3 trips to Vegas after I got to the Diamond Level. Typically, I get to Vegas twice a year, sometimes only once.

+ I like the easy and separate Diamond check-in areas.

+ I don't like standing in long buffet lines, so I also enjoy getting to go in the short line there.

+ The $ 100 Welcome Dinner is nice. I didn't even realize until recently that I get that this year as well.

+ I also value access to the Diamond Lounges. It's nice to have somewhere to go to sit down and have a free drink off the casino floor, and some of the lounges have decent food too.

+ We took advantage of the free Show Tickets, 2 per month. Since our second trip covered the end of one month and the beginning of the next, Mrs. Q and I each saw 2 shows that trip ( Million Dollar Quartet and Legends, both very good ). Typically, we have gotten tickets pretty close to the front.

- Reality Check: Getting to Diamond didn't throw open the doors to unlimited comp rooms, I assume because I typically play good Video Poker paytables. (Even though I try to play a little bit of Slots to confuse their Marketing Dept). BUT when Mrs. Q and I are travelling together, the combination of our TR accounts generally gets us free rooms Sun-Thurs.
Last edited by: JohnnyQ on Jan 6, 2016
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
GWAE
GWAE
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January 6th, 2016 at 4:00:38 PM permalink
You gave the expected loss but do you mind sharing the actual loss? Also did you get any extra free play for this marathon session or did they screw you since you played all vp? Lastlt, will you do it again next year?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
teddys
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January 6th, 2016 at 4:10:06 PM permalink
At one point at various Horseshoes (Horses shoe?) you could play 9/6 Jacks for dollars and they would give you back a crapload (technical term) in free play. So you could play at least at breakeven or better not even considering the benefits. That's how I made Seven Stars the last two years. This year I will probably revert back to Gold (gasp!).

During all my playing I hit three $4,000 royals (more actually on two progressives), so I finished a little bit ahead for my play, believe it or not.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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January 6th, 2016 at 6:10:21 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

At one point at various Horseshoes (Horses shoe?) you could play 9/6 Jacks for dollars and they would give you back a crapload (technical term) in free play.

I did get a nice amount of freeplay for the first time I played the $1 9/6 JoB, but that only was for the first time. The subsequent trips, even with similar coin-in, only generated a very small free play offer.

Quote: teddys

During all my playing I hit three $4,000 royals (more actually on two progressives), so I finished a little bit ahead for my play, believe it or not.

Excellent !

Quote: GWAE

You gave the expected loss but do you mind sharing the actual loss? Also did you get any extra free play for this marathon session or did they screw you since you played all vp? Lastlt, will you do it again next year?

I don't have my little record book handy right now, but I think I was right in line with the lower EV when you factor in not hitting a RF (these were Progressive Machines, but I never saw them crazy high). Maybe a little less loss than that. So all in all, because I value what they offer, I think it was worth it for me, personally, to get to Diamond.

I would probably do it again in 2017, BUT the 9/6 JoB game is gone. I doubt it will be back, but who knows ? ALSO, according to VPFREE2, when CZR does have a good paytable for Video Poker somewhere, they have increased the coin-in from $ 10 to $25 or even $50 to generate 1 tier credit.
Last edited by: JohnnyQ on Jan 6, 2016
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
ahiromu
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January 6th, 2016 at 7:07:35 PM permalink
The line skipping in Vegas is great and Diamond lounges are an easy way to save $10. However, when MLife is your primary competition, it isn't that hard to make yourself look good.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
AxelWolf
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January 6th, 2016 at 9:48:58 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

A little over a year ago, I posted this comment:

So I did end up reaching the Diamond Level in early March of 2015, just before my first trip to Vegas.

There is a Horseshoe not too far from where we live, and at the time, they had $ 1 9/6 Jacks or Better (it was changed to a crappy paytable shortly afterwards) with $ 10 coin-in for each tier credit. So that was my game of choice. One afternoon/evening/night after work, I racked up 2500 tier credits ie 5000 hands worth of VP (yeah, quite a grind and a long night), which "earned" another 5000 bonus tier credits.

Bonus Tier Credits Explained

Expected Loss:

9/6 JoB has an optimum play pay-out of 99.54 % IF you hit the Royal, which comes around in the long term about every 40,388 hands. I didn't. So subtracting off the 1.98 % contribution of the RF, the return becomes 97.6 %. Or for 2500 hands at $ 5 a pop, an expected loss of about $ 610. And that gets you HALF the way there assuming you only play two 2500 tier credit marathon sessions.

I think most of the forum members know all that. I just mention it because getting to Diamond Level comes with a cost. But I enjoy playing Video Poker, and the losses I incurred were well with-in my comfort level ( of course, I would have been MORE comfortable if I had somehow come out ahead ! ). Maybe next time ? ? ?

So were the Diamond Level benefits worth it to me ?

Yes, overall for me, they were. They make my trips to Vegas more enjoyable. AND this year, I made 3 trips to Vegas after I got to the Diamond Level. Typically, I get to Vegas twice a year, sometimes only once.

+ I like the easy and separate Diamond check-in areas.

+ I don't like standing in long buffet lines, so I also enjoy getting to go in the short line there.

+ The $ 100 Welcome Dinner is nice. I didn't even realize until recently that I get that this year as well.

+ I also value access to the Diamond Lounges. It's nice to have somewhere to go to sit down and have a free drink off the casino floor, and some of the lounges have decent food too.

+ We took advantage of the free Show Tickets, 2 per month. Since our second trip covered the end of one month and the beginning of the next, Mrs. Q and I each saw 2 shows that trip ( Million Dollar Quartet and Legends, both very good ). Typically, we have gotten tickets pretty close to the front.

- Reality Check: Getting to Diamond didn't throw open the doors to unlimited comp rooms, I assume because I typically play good Video Poker paytables. (Even though I try to play a little bit of Slots to confuse their Marketing Dept). BUT when Mrs. Q and I are travelling together, the combination of our TR accounts generally gets us free rooms Sun-Thurs.

As long as you enjoyed yourself without giving away to much(if any) value. That kind of information (I assume you gathered some from this site) is something that hard core AP's don't get miffed at because it's TMI.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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January 7th, 2016 at 4:09:35 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

As long as you enjoyed yourself without giving away too much(if any) value.

For me, YES. Others may have a completely different take on the Cost/Benefit ratio for THEIR situation, but that's all good. I have been going to Vegas for a lot of years without ever coming close to the Diamond tier.

Quote: AxelWolf

That kind of information (I assume you gathered some from this site)

And WoO. (Great info there, of course, and the practice games that flag when you make a strategy error are very helpful as well).

Quote: AxelWolf

is something that hard core AP's don't get miffed at because it's TMI.

Yep, just trying to share info of general interest from my perspective.

There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
jessie.wilburn
jessie.wilburn
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January 7th, 2016 at 6:23:46 AM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

A little over a year ago, I posted this comment:

So I did end up reaching the Diamond Level in early March of 2015, just before my first trip to Vegas.

There is a Horseshoe not too far from where we live, and at the time, they had $ 1 9/6 Jacks or Better (it was changed to a crappy paytable shortly afterwards) with $ 10 coin-in for each tier credit. So that was my game of choice. One afternoon/evening/night after work, I racked up 2500 tier credits ie 5000 hands worth of VP (yeah, quite a grind and a long night), which "earned" another 5000 bonus tier credits.

Bonus Tier Credits Explained

Expected Loss:

9/6 JoB has an optimum play pay-out of 99.54 % IF you hit the Royal, which comes around in the long term about every 40,388 hands. I didn't. So subtracting off the 1.98 % contribution of the RF, the return becomes 97.6 %. Or for 2500 hands at $ 5 a pop, an expected loss of about $ 610. And that gets you HALF the way there assuming you only play two 2500 tier credit marathon sessions.

I think most of the forum members know all that. I just mention it because getting to Diamond Level comes with a cost. But I enjoy playing Video Poker, and the losses I incurred were well with-in my comfort level ( of course, I would have been MORE comfortable if I had somehow come out ahead ! ). Maybe next time ? ? ?

So were the Diamond Level benefits worth it to me ?

Yes, overall for me, they were. They make my trips to Vegas more enjoyable. AND this year, I made 3 trips to Vegas after I got to the Diamond Level. Typically, I get to Vegas twice a year, sometimes only once.

+ I like the easy and separate Diamond check-in areas.

+ I don't like standing in long buffet lines, so I also enjoy getting to go in the short line there.

+ The $ 100 Welcome Dinner is nice. I didn't even realize until recently that I get that this year as well.

+ I also value access to the Diamond Lounges. It's nice to have somewhere to go to sit down and have a free drink off the casino floor, and some of the lounges have decent food too.

+ We took advantage of the free Show Tickets, 2 per month. Since our second trip covered the end of one month and the beginning of the next, Mrs. Q and I each saw 2 shows that trip ( Million Dollar Quartet and Legends, both very good ). Typically, we have gotten tickets pretty close to the front.

- Reality Check: Getting to Diamond didn't throw open the doors to unlimited comp rooms, I assume because I typically play good Video Poker paytables. (Even though I try to play a little bit of Slots to confuse their Marketing Dept). BUT when Mrs. Q and I are travelling together, the combination of our TR accounts generally gets us free rooms Sun-Thurs.



I have really enjoyed the extra benefits being a Diamond Member has. Even without a host I find that I am given better treatment as a Diamond player than I was as a lower tiered player. There are even some of the casinos outside of Vegas that offer even more benefits such as a Diamond Dessert at different buffets. I also never had to worry about the valet being full for me or waiting a long time for my car. I also find that being able to request stuff through the VIP line instead of the front desk is also a nice bonus.

I got lucky for my card however and instead of spending time playing video poker I paid 300 bucks and got a founders card, getting all of the same benefits as a Diamond player for a much lower cost. The only downside is you are not getting the reward credits that you would playing but as a table player I would never reach diamond otherwise. Last year alone the card saved me 1400 bucks in Las Vegas. This year I am staying two days in Laughlin and five days at Harrah's in the newly remodeled rooms for free.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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January 7th, 2016 at 6:36:38 AM permalink
But you see JW...
It's not the perks from being Diamond....
It's the adrenaline rush at the tables getting to Diamond....
Maybe you don't see ;-(

<edit> Well, since you bought a 'founders card' for $300. You still selling those thru a link?
Last edited by: TwoFeathersATL on Jan 7, 2016
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 7th, 2016 at 7:03:54 AM permalink
Did you show your diamond card at the players club desk of other properties?

Some of the best perks are for new player competitive upgrades.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
jessie.wilburn
jessie.wilburn
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January 7th, 2016 at 10:50:40 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

But you see JW...
It's not the perks from being Diamond....
It's the adrenaline rush at the tables getting to Diamond....
Maybe you don't see ;-(



I like the rush at the tables, however I like being a Diamond walking in the door.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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January 9th, 2016 at 9:32:42 AM permalink
I hit Diamond last year as well. I probably didn't take advantage of it as much as I could have but it was nice. I'm just a red chip player so I didn't get huge offers but some free chips every week at least helped pay for gas. The comps are decent enough. In almost a year I never paid for food. Football game on Sunday and they're charging $30 for parking? Just flash your card and they let you right in. I can't travel much but they were always sending me offers for 2 free nights at Caesars Palace or whatever. I did get to aspirations level one and was on track to get to level two. So I was planning on taking a vacation to Las Vegas with my free room stay and airfare credit.

Yes it was ok. But then one day when 3 security guards come up to you, lie to you that you have to give them id and then proceed to evict you without giving any reason, you kind of think back and say, what was the point? Should have known that they could do that. A few weeks later and my account is shutdown. No comps, no free play, no vacation that I rightfully earned. My host will help right? No, he didn't email me back. Then you realize you aren't the first that has happened to and you won't be the last, and Caesars wonders why they're in bankruptcy. So thanks for the good times Mr. Caesar. You kicked me out and took everything I earned but I can promise you this, our relationship is not over. I'll find a way to take 100x that back from you. You won't know it's me, but I will.
GWAE
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January 9th, 2016 at 9:55:26 AM permalink
What was the reason you were kicked out? I know they didn't give you a reason but you have to know what they didn't like.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
Sandybestdog
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January 9th, 2016 at 10:31:13 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

What was the reason you were kicked out? I know they didn't give you a reason but you have to know what they didn't like.

Well yea I know why, but they don't know that I know. I left a nice review on a website several months ago. I updated it with another one letting people know about my experience. Somebody from there responded saying sorry and blah blah and email them to see what they could do. I emailed and somebody responded and said they would look into it and I never heard back.
DeMango
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January 12th, 2016 at 2:26:52 PM permalink
Card counting?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Sandybestdog
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January 12th, 2016 at 7:07:33 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Card counting?


No. You can PM me if you want details.
RS
RS
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January 12th, 2016 at 7:11:58 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Did you show your diamond card at the players club desk of other properties?

Some of the best perks are for new player competitive upgrades.



This is true. I've gotten comped rooms at a non-Harrahs properties before just by showing my 7-stars card.
Boz
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January 12th, 2016 at 7:46:18 PM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

No. You can PM me if you want details.



Only issues I have ever observed are people being denied 7 Stars for only playing VP ( which the late great member Alan wanted to argue about) or any level benefits being taken away for counting. Any other reason is new to me. Not saying it hasn't happened, but public details would be nice to hear.
DeMango
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January 14th, 2016 at 3:07:56 AM permalink
Yup, even if caught counting at red chip level, this wouldn't make sense.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Sandybestdog
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January 14th, 2016 at 6:23:26 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Only issues I have ever observed are people being denied 7 Stars for only playing VP ( which the late great member Alan wanted to argue about) or any level benefits being taken away for counting. Any other reason is new to me. Not saying it hasn't happened, but public details would be nice to hear.


Without going too much into detail, I was holecarding. I thought if they figured it out, they would just correct it. I played poker sometimes and would occasionally throw $40 into a video poker machine. Not sure why they would want to lose me as a patron all together. Anyway, these are the things I learned about getting kicked out.

1) You can be banned for any reason or no reason at all. If you wear the wrong colored shirt and a security boss looking for a promotion is having a bad day, you're gone. It doesn't matter if it's the casino's fault.

2) Your win/loss doesn't matter. I was down in their system YTD about $5000. It was $12k then miraculously in 2 weeks I made $7k. In reality I was about break even, maybe slightly ahead. I'm not the greatest AP (and I use that term losely) in the world.

3) Your tier level doesn't matter. Nor does it matter if pit bosses and dealers know you as a nice patron.

4) Your bet level doesn't matter. When I say I'm a red chipper, I really do just play red. I figure if you can't make money at that, why bother to go green. I bring about $700 with me when I go out and that's about my limit. I'm scared to use a $25 match play on blackjack cause I might get an 11 and have to put $50 more up on one bet. I'll do it, but you get the point. I was usually betting the table minimum or a little higher.

5) How much you tip doesn't matter. Again being a red chipper, I'm not able to tip a whole lot, but I probably tipped $5-20 per session, depending on the win/loss. I mean when I would walk by the dealers would say hi to me, so I guess they wanted me there. I think it's dumb that the dealers rely on tips but that's ok.

6) With the exception of blackjack, not playing sidebets is a huge red flag to everyone. People think you're crazy. Don't you know that where the money is? Of course dealers just like them cause of there high payouts. If the sidebet minimum is $1, I'm thinking I should play it just for cover.

6) Getting kicked out is not a badge of honor, it's a bummer.

Bottom line, casino's are a dictatorship, not a democracy.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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January 14th, 2016 at 8:41:04 AM permalink
That store is tossing everyone the last few months sandy and including some innocent civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's what happens when a number of (amateurish) AP's camp out on the same medium sized store everyday for months. CZR properties are by in large overly heavy handed with barrings compared to other stores, not a coincidence they're frequently the subject of lawsuits (when you voluntarily escalate things beyond what's necessary it's easy for things to spiral out of control.) For the most part backoff is not in their vocabulary it's all 86'ing.

It'd be nice if they'd just fix the dealer but SOP for table games is to fix the symptom not the problem.
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