Game idea- Duplicate Video Poker

Once I learned to play bridge, other card games felt kind of flat in comparison to the subtlety and elegance of this great social game. Duplicate bridge is the form of bridge where the hands are kept intact after each round and played by another team. In this case your game is not so much against the opponents at the table with you, but against all the other teams in the duplicate who are playing the same cards as you, and how well you bid and play the cards in comparison to them will determine your score. Thus in a duplicate most of the luck of cards is eliminated; the only luck elements remaining are if you are playing the North-South or East-West hands of a particular board, and who your opponents are for that board and how they play.

So I was thinking what other games could this duplicate principle be applied to? Maybe video poker. Here's how it would work- two players at different terminals would sit, and after agreeing on a form of video poker and a stake, put up an equal stake. Then the computer shuffles 100 decks and uploads them to each terminal. They'll get 3 minutes to play the hands (very unlikely they will play all 100 in 180 seconds, but those are arbitrary numbers) and they will be scored on their speed and accuracy- basically how much of their stake they would be getting back based on the EV of their play decisions, and since they will be both playing the same cards the luck of the deal and draw will be eliminated. Winner take all minus the house rake.

Or another variant could be they are scored on their actual results, effectively how much money they win in the allotted time period. This might be more interesting because if a player thinks he is being outplayed, he can take a chance and choose a lower EV play for a chance for a bigger win that will get him back on top.

This could have many more than 2 players too, probably no limit on how many can play in one duplicate, although some people might not want to wait for a bunch of seats to fill up and all the stakes to be anted. But terminals like this could be very flexible, and a game could be configured in many different ways just with software.

I would really like playing something like this (which doesn't tell you much about how popular it would be among the normal!) and I think more skill games and competitive games would attract a whole different crowd to casinos.

The main problem I see with something like this is, either:
(a) Each hand's entire deck is identical for each player, in which case, if you get players all playing a common strategy, you will end up with quite a few ties, or
(b) Each hand's deck is shuffled differently for each player after the first five cards are dealt, in which case, what's the point?

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

So I was thinking what other games could this duplicate principle be applied to? Maybe video poker. Here's how it would work- two players at different terminals would sit, and after agreeing on a form of video poker and a stake, put up an equal stake. Then the computer shuffles 100 decks and uploads them to each terminal. They'll get 3 minutes to play the hands (very unlikely they will play all 100 in 180 seconds, but those are arbitrary numbers) and they will be scored on their speed and accuracy- basically how much of their stake they would be getting back based on the EV of their play decisions, and since they will be both playing the same cards the luck of the deal and draw will be eliminated. Winner take all minus the house rake.

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(¡¡snip snip!!)

Isn't there a technical standard that Nevada requires the virtual cards to be continuously shuffled until "deal" or "draw" is selected? Wouldn't playing with duplicated deck orders violate that?

It seems an interesting idea for tournaments, but... if the tournament prize includes any sort of overlay, the potential for hijinks seems troublesome.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

The main problem I see with something like this is, either:
(a) Each hand's entire deck is identical for each player, in which case, if you get players all playing a common strategy, you will end up with quite a few ties, or
(b) Each hand's deck is shuffled differently for each player after the first five cards are dealt, in which case, what's the point?
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The game would require uploading more boards to each terminal than you would expect to be played, and it would be trivial to upload a ridiculous number of boards, let's say 1000 to be played in one minute which of course would never happen. So at that point it becomes a speed game, and players playing the same number of hands in a time period both with perfect strategy would not happen often. But each player would be playing the same decks, for both deal and draw.

Quote: Dieter

Isn't there a technical standard that Nevada requires the virtual cards to be continuously shuffled until "deal" or "draw" is selected? Wouldn't playing with duplicated deck orders violate that?

Yes, there is. Technical Standard 1.400(6): "Additionally, video poker games must not determine replacement cards prior to the player selecting hold cards and initiating a draw."
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Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Dieter

Isn't there a technical standard that Nevada requires the virtual cards to be continuously shuffled until "deal" or "draw" is selected? Wouldn't playing with duplicated deck orders violate that?

Yes, there is. Technical Standard 1.400(6): "Additionally, video poker games must not determine replacement cards prior to the player selecting hold cards and initiating a draw."
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That's interesting, as it seems to conflict with another rule that visual representations of real world gaming devices must function like them. So if you were dealing the same game as video poker from a deck of cards, that's how it would be- the first 10 cards of the deck are the only ones that would ever be used and they are already determined before the deal begins.

This would be a form or tournament play, and also like a live poker game being the payers are playing against each other and the house takes a fixed rake. Not really like video poker at all because even though it is scoring the hands like video poker the value of the hand is not what you are getting paid for, you win by playing the cards better and faster than the opponent, whatever they are. So I don't see how the Gaming rules for video poker could be applied to it.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Dieter

Isn't there a technical standard that Nevada requires the virtual cards to be continuously shuffled until "deal" or "draw" is selected? Wouldn't playing with duplicated deck orders violate that?

Yes, there is. Technical Standard 1.400(6): "Additionally, video poker games must not determine replacement cards prior to the player selecting hold cards and initiating a draw."
link to original post

That's interesting, as it seems to conflict with another rule that visual representations of real world gaming devices must function like them. So if you were dealing the same game as video poker from a deck of cards, that's how it would be- the first 10 cards of the deck are the only ones that would ever be used and they are already determined before the deal begins.
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That's not quite true. I assume you are thinking of Nevada Gaming Regulation 14.040(5):
"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game."
This just means that when a card is dealt, each card remaining in the deck has to have an equal chance of being the one dealt. It says nothing about whether or not the remainder of the deck can be reshuffled first.

If anyone wants a REALLY GOOD VP idea, I have one.

I fu**ed up (or not) I had an interview with a big wig at IGT regarding my idea.

A few day's prior to my meeting I was told by a "confidential informant "(they were close to top management)I shouldn't do it without an attorney.
I was sent multiple examples of people getting Fked after they presented their ideas.

I canceled my meeting...

My Idea is still viable and no one has come close

I believe my idea would rival UX. One could make multiple true claims such as, " more Royals than other vp game" etc.


My idea is.Highly addictive and adaptable to other games.