Enj
Enj
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February 27th, 2025 at 9:10:32 PM permalink
The wizard of odds Ultimate X strategy states

Quote:

For each poker hand, determine: (adjusted win) = 2×(base win) + (multiplier) - 1. For example, if the base win for a full house is 8 and the multiplier is 12, then the adjusted win is 2 × 8 + 12 - 1 = 27.


What is the logic or math behind this?
In the example with a 12 multiplier, why isn’t the full house adjusted win 12x8?

How should the equation change if betting more than one credit? The base win is a multiple of the number of credits (minus RF bonus on max bet. Should the multiplier and/or -1 be multiplied as well?
randomperson
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February 28th, 2025 at 5:24:46 AM permalink
You are going to have to start with what problem you are trying to solve with the math. It would help if you put more information for what wizard is trying to do.

Is he starting with a 2x multiplier on the current hand? It seems weird to me that he is valuing the future hand at a full 12-1 when that hand is only worth the ev of the 12-1 given the strategy, but it’s a quote without context so who knows.
ThatDonGuy
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Enj
February 28th, 2025 at 6:33:14 AM permalink
Think of it as base win + (multiplier - 1).
Also, this applies only if you intend to play again if you win; otherwise, use "normal" strategy (and, while you're at it, only play 5 credits instead of 10).

The base win value is what it normally pays. This is unaffected by the multiplier because the formula is used only to determine the strategy, and all of the payouts will be multiplied by the same amount; this would not change the strategy - just the expected return.
"Multiplier - 1" is the effect of the next hand on your strategy.
Enj
Enj
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February 28th, 2025 at 7:58:08 AM permalink
Thanks, that makes sense.

This formula is only good for creating a strategy with their strategy maker then? As in, the outputted probabilities/returns are not correct? They don’t appear correct unless I did something wrong.

Context for the thread: I’m referring to the strategy section at https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/ultimate-x/
randomperson
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February 28th, 2025 at 9:40:48 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Think of it as base win + (multiplier - 1).
Also, this applies only if you intend to play again if you win; otherwise, use "normal" strategy (and, while you're at it, only play 5 credits instead of 10).

The base win value is what it normally pays. This is unaffected by the multiplier because the formula is used only to determine the strategy, and all of the payouts will be multiplied by the same amount; this would not change the strategy - just the expected return.
"Multiplier - 1" is the effect of the next hand on your strategy.
link to original post



Where does the 2x come from? Is there a parenthesis missing or something? Also the continuation value of future multipliers is not equal to 1 times the multiplier increase because the paytable with the strategy you are playing doesn’t return 100%. If you do this, you are overvaluing the future multipliers.
randomperson
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February 28th, 2025 at 12:08:34 PM permalink
I've looked at the Wizard article. The only thing I can think of is that 2 is close to the average multiplier. But there should be some sort of explanation for why it is there. I can't find that explanation but maybe I missed it.
liamrichards
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March 18th, 2025 at 7:20:34 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Think of it as base win + (multiplier - 1).
Also, this applies only if you intend to play again if you win; otherwise, use "normal" strategy (and, while you're at it, only play 5 credits instead of 10).

The base win value is what it normally pays. This is unaffected by the multiplier because the formula is used only to determine the strategy, and all of the payouts will be multiplied by the same amount; this would not change the strategy - just the expected return.
"Multiplier - 1" is the effect of the next hand on your strategy.
link to original post



I was surprised that I understood it the first time. Thank you
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