"Free Drinks" VP Strategy

I'm planning on a trip later this month with some friends and would like to teach them to play video poker to get comped drinks at the casino bar. Because they are only going to be playing a relatively small set of hands with a small bankroll (say $40ish) it got me wondering what the optimal strategy/game would be to get as many drinks out of that bankroll as possible.

This would differ from normal basic strategy in that I would want to optimize for lowering variance and risk of ruin instead of maximizing RTP. An example deviation would be in Bonus Poker you might hold two high cards over 3 low cards to a straight flush because it reduces variance at the cost of long term EV. This also has the side benefit of making learning the basic strategy easier because it becomes something like "hold any two high cards".

My gut tells me that I would want to choose as low variance of a game as possible (i.e. Jacks or Better) and tweak the basic strategy to de-prioritize the "long shot" hands (i.e. going for a straight flush), but I'm curious if there's an optimal game/strategy for this!

If your only goal is getting free drinks at the bar, no play strategy will facilitate that as much as: only playing 1 coin at a time, and playing slowly. Exactly the opposite of what a serious VP player playing for profit would do. The bartender isn't paying attention to how many coins you are betting and might not even care about the denomination. He's working for tips and if he knows he will get that he will find a way to serve you.

As far as games, either Deuces or any game paying 2:1 on two pairs has lower variance so stick to those.

My local casinos lately, playing or not they ask for your players card for water and no other comped drinks. Even while actively playing.

Quote: Ko8Chun

I'm planning on a trip later this month with some friends and would like to teach them to play video poker to get comped drinks at the casino bar. Because they are only going to be playing a relatively small set of hands with a small bankroll (say $40ish) it got me wondering what the optimal strategy/game would be to get as many drinks out of that bankroll as possible.

This would differ from normal basic strategy in that I would want to optimize for lowering variance and risk of ruin instead of maximizing RTP. An example deviation would be in Bonus Poker you might hold two high cards over 3 low cards to a straight flush because it reduces variance at the cost of long term EV. This also has the side benefit of making learning the basic strategy easier because it becomes something like "hold any two high cards".

My gut tells me that I would want to choose as low variance of a game as possible (i.e. Jacks or Better) and tweak the basic strategy to de-prioritize the "long shot" hands (i.e. going for a straight flush), but I'm curious if there's an optimal game/strategy for this!
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What city?

If your only goal is to get free drinks, VP EV and strategy are mostly a non-issue.

It comes down to Location, Location, Location and perception.

For example, go to a local Las Vegas Bar with gaming. As the bartender comes around to ask what you want, just slide in $100 to the slot/VP machine, and bingo the bartender will give you a drink. A little play on that $100 insert will often get you another without resistance. The 3rd free drink will require a tip of at least $5. 3 drinks will cost you $5 in tips and $1 in EV.

DONT PLAY ONE COIN. Most places want you to play max coins even if it's a lower denomination. For example, max coins on a .5 machine is better than 2 coins on a .25 machine. They want to see max coins on the denomination you are playing. Bartenders are instructed to look for 5 coins bets.

There is no one-size-fits-all, you have to gauge the situation at each location. TIP FIRST, PLAY LATER will give you your best results.

Quote: AxelWolf

For example, go to a local Las Vegas Bar with gaming. As the bartender comes around to ask what you want, just slide in $100 to the slot/VP machine, and bingo the bartender will give you a drink. A little play on that $100 insert will often get you another without resistance. The 3rd free drink will require a tip of at least $5. 3 drinks will cost you $5 in tips and $1 in EV.

DONT PLAY ONE COIN. Most places want you to play max coins even if it's a lower denomination. For example, max coins on a .5 machine is better than 2 coins on a .25 machine. They want to see max coins on the denomination you are playing. Bartenders are instructed to look for 5 coins bets.

There is no one-size-fits-all, you have to gauge the situation at each location. TIP FIRST, PLAY LATER will give you your best results.
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I was unaware of that. Why would they rather comp a player playing 5x$1 than one who is playing 1x$5, being the second one is playing into a bigger house edge, assuming the paytables are the same? Whenever I see someone playing less than 5 coins I assume that is not a person there to win.

The only time I was told anything about this by a bartender, he said he wanted to see someone playing at the $1 level and that was that.

Oh and I assume a strategically placed cocktail napkin or pack of cigs could obscure your denomination.

This is a trip to Vegas! The three drink system is super helpful as kind of a meta-strategy for getting the cheap drinks which is probably the most important factor compared to the actual gameplay. It sounds like things like starting at max coins and then dropping down to one coin later could work depending on how they're checking/how often.

I'm also curious about the gameplay itself, since I'd like the chance of the $40 bankroll going to $0 to be as low as possible, and I don't really care as much about a couple dollars in EV. I'm also realizing that I may want to have an ultra-basic basic strategy that I can teach my friends in a few minutes.

I got an interesting DM with some analysis using the Wizard's Video Poker strategy calculator that I think may be helpful in answering my question. If I make the big payouts (royals, straight flushes, 4 A's, etc.) smaller (i.e. 25x), it drops the variance significantly. I ran this on what look like the most common low-ish variance games (JoB, Deuces Wild, and Bonus Poker) and while Deuces Wild and Bonus Poker have lower variance the RTP is more heavily influenced by reducing big payouts. This suggests to me that JoB is less sensitive to ignoring long shots to royals/straight flushes so I'm leaning that way.

Here's the ultra-basic basic strategy I came up with for Jacks or Better that minimizes variance (i.e. going for royals/straight flushes), while sticking relatively closely to normal basic strategy. Unfortunately I don't have a way to simulate this to see how it performs.

- Any made hand
- 4 to a flush/straight
- Low pair
- 2 high cards
- 1 high card
- 3 to a straight flush

Any thoughts on this?

The best way to keep free drinks coming is to tip generously, but doing so also defeats the strategy.
Location is everything.

Quote: Ko8Chun

I'd like the chance of the $40 bankroll going to $0 to be as low as possible

Just put a few hundred into a craps machine and wait for the cocktailwatress to come around. You won't have to play a single dollar.

Quote: Ko8Chun

This is a trip to Vegas! The three drink system is super helpful as kind of a meta-strategy for getting the cheap drinks which is probably the most important factor compared to the actual gameplay. It sounds like things like starting at max coins and then dropping down to one coin later could work depending on how they're checking/how often.

I'm also curious about the gameplay itself, since I'd like the chance of the $40 bankroll going to $0 to be as low as possible, and I don't really care as much about a couple dollars in EV. I'm also realizing that I may want to have an ultra-basic basic strategy that I can teach my friends in a few minutes.

I got an interesting DM with some analysis using the Wizard's Video Poker strategy calculator that I think may be helpful in answering my question. If I make the big payouts (royals, straight flushes, 4 A's, etc.) smaller (i.e. 25x), it drops the variance significantly. I ran this on what look like the most common low-ish variance games (JoB, Deuces Wild, and Bonus Poker) and while Deuces Wild and Bonus Poker have lower variance the RTP is more heavily influenced by reducing big payouts. This suggests to me that JoB is less sensitive to ignoring long shots to royals/straight flushes so I'm leaning that way.

Here's the ultra-basic basic strategy I came up with for Jacks or Better that minimizes variance (i.e. going for royals/straight flushes), while sticking relatively closely to normal basic strategy. Unfortunately I don't have a way to simulate this to see how it performs.

- Any made hand
- 4 to a flush/straight
- Low pair
- 2 high cards
- 1 high card
- 3 to a straight flush

Any thoughts on this?
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This is like way too much thinking and analyzing to get some free drinks.

regaurdless of the post... i feel as if this person shouldnt be drinking or gambling in the first place... they literally are saying they dont have enough money to drink alcohol and they think that playing a mostly -EV game, with the little amounts of money they have, is simply so they can drink for free...

personally i would suggest going toa 711 or wherever you can get a single beer, and then boof the beer if alcohol is so important because its not about the beer or whatever alcohol this person is drinking its about getting drunk and thats the fastest way to uh... get drunk or take a fast pass to the eventual fate that alcoholics suffer.

Quote: heatmap

regaurdless of the post... i feel as if this person shouldnt be drinking or gambling in the first place... they literally are saying they dont have enough money to drink alcohol and they think that playing a mostly -EV game, with the little amounts of money they have, is simply so they can drink for free...

personally i would suggest going toa 711 or wherever you can get a single beer, and then boof the beer if alcohol is so important because its not about the beer or whatever alcohol this person is drinking its about getting drunk and thats the fastest way to uh... get drunk or take a fast pass to the eventual fate that alcoholics suffer.
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Free beer tastes better!

Quote: heatmap

regaurdless of the post... i feel as if this person shouldnt be drinking or gambling in the first place... they literally are saying they dont have enough money to drink alcohol and they think that playing a mostly -EV game, with the little amounts of money they have, is simply so they can drink for free...

personally i would suggest going toa 711 or wherever you can get a single beer, and then boof the beer if alcohol is so important because its not about the beer or whatever alcohol this person is drinking its about getting drunk and thats the fastest way to uh... get drunk or take a fast pass to the eventual fate that alcoholics suffer.
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No do not boof alcohol! Or any substance, really. Good God. People have done that because their throats were too damaged to swallow it and you are very close to death at that point.

I also have to wonder how big a role alcohol plays in one's life if you have to plan to drink. But that's someone else's problem and trying to fix someone else's substance problem is a fool's errand. If you like to drink the free drinks are part of your WR and can make a game +EV if you planned on drinking anyway.

-can always ask the bartender how much play they are looking for.
-if you don't care about how long it takes, the casino floor is going to be a lot better. Because it is so much slower there is a lot less protection on who they serve to and the cocktail waitress aren't going to be watching your play.
-slower games can have a lower expected value per bet, but higher ev over time. I knew some ways to take advantage of this with pia gow poker about 10-15 years ago. Might be a way to do this with keno at a bar, picking new numbers every spin.
-Poker Palace or Skyline are going to be a lot different than the Bellagio or Wynn.

My local casino the cocktail waitress will bring me a drink just for sitting by a slot machine. No play needed. I don’t think anyone checks.

Quote: AxelWolf

It comes down to Location, Location, Location

This. 100%!

If you go to a bar that where they have a "light system" (bartenders are only allowed to serve you when/if your machine's $/min "light" comes on), you're screwed. I decided to check out the Carousel Bar outside the Plaza last year. I was almost down $40 before I was eligible for a "free" beer. Much easier to get drinks inside at the Omaha Bar.

Quote: TomG

-Poker Palace or Skyline are going to be a lot different than the Bellagio or Wynn.

Funny you should mention Skyline... the last time I was there, the bartender tried to charge me for my drink, and this was after I'd already put my money in my machine and played a few hands!

Things may have changed, but when I lived there, the best low-roller casino for free drinks and food was The Emerald Island in Henderson. Four Queens was a distant second.

Quote: SOOPOO

My local casino the cocktail waitress will bring me a drink just for sitting by a slot machine. No play needed. I don’t think anyone checks.
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I get told to f*ck off at the Indian casino without my club card 😂

Anything laying 2:1 on 2 pair or better and bet 1 coin every time the bartender comes your way. Lots of places the bartender doesn’t even care as long as you tip. (Unless a light system)