ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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Thanks for this post from:
RogerKint
June 1st, 2023 at 12:23:46 PM permalink
Just got back from Las Vegas and found a game that has my head like a pretzel. Airport deuces on Dream card (15/9/4/4/3/2/1) shows on my Pay Tables app as 99.91%. It also analyzes on the Wizard of Odds site the same.

On a bank of new software (can select the dream card while materializing) the Deuces Wild paytable at quarter triple play is:

4000/1000/150/95/75/30/25/15/10/5

Without even analyzing it it has FIVE lines that are better (a lot) than airport deuces. Analyzing it at the Wizard's site says it is 21% positive. What am I missing here? I've been chasing Video Poker for over 30 years as a knowledgeable recreational Las Vegas visitor. This is a head scratcher for me.

I thought that these games have a menu of paytables the casino can select and while some vear a bit over 100% and are rarely selected, something like this doesn't even seem possible to me.
TheCapitalShip
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June 1st, 2023 at 12:48:18 PM permalink
Quote: ArkyVPguy

Just got back from Las Vegas and found a game that has my head like a pretzel. Airport deuces on Dream card (15/9/4/4/3/2/1) shows on my Pay Tables app as 99.91%. It also analyzes on the Wizard of Odds site the same.

On a bank of new software (can select the dream card while materializing) the Deuces Wild paytable at quarter triple play is:

4000/1000/150/95/75/30/25/15/10/5

Without even analyzing it it has FIVE lines that are better (a lot) than airport deuces. Analyzing it at the Wizard's site says it is 21% positive. What am I missing here? I've been chasing Video Poker for over 30 years as a knowledgeable recreational Las Vegas visitor. This is a head scratcher for me.

I thought that these games have a menu of paytables the casino can select and while some vear a bit over 100% and are rarely selected, something like this doesn't even seem possible to me.
link to original post



Did you analyze it for 5 coins or 10 coins? Remember you have to double your bet to invoke the feature.

That paytable is the 30/19/15/5/3 Dream Card paytable which comes out to 97.48% (according to the WOO paytables listed on his dream card page)
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 12:56:58 PM permalink
10 coins.

If I run 4000/1000/125/75/45/20/20/15/10/5 (airport deuces) it is 99.91% which is what the analyzer defaults to. 4000/1000/150/95/75/30/25/15/10/5 comes out:

Totals 830,551,271,550,000 1.000000 1.57 44.095066 1.211700
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 12:57:54 PM permalink
How do I post a picture on here. I will post a pic of the game.
Dieter
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Dieter
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June 1st, 2023 at 1:52:15 PM permalink
Quote: ArkyVPguy

How do I post a picture on here. I will post a pic of the game.
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May the cards fall in your favor.
unJon
unJon
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June 1st, 2023 at 4:33:15 PM permalink
Quote: ArkyVPguy

How do I post a picture on here. I will post a pic of the game.
link to original post



You donít have enough posts for pic permissions. Maybe a kid can help you.

ETA: oops looks like one did.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Viper21
Viper21
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June 1st, 2023 at 6:16:08 PM permalink
Make sure you are inputting the correct dream card frequency. If I am not mistaken that dream card paytable is likely around 19% or something.
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 6:37:46 PM permalink
What??? I don't get to put in frequency in the calculator. What I am saying here is that this paytable has 5 lines that pay MORE than the 99.91% paytable and none lower...
Viper21
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June 1st, 2023 at 6:53:41 PM permalink
Wizard's video poker calculator. Select dream card poker. Deuces. Enter in paytable. Enter in dream card probability. Default is .59
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 7:18:26 PM permalink
Maybe I'm missing something. I don't see any place to enter dream card probability. His Dream Card site paytable list shows Dream Card probability as .59% on all games. I certainly wouldn't know what it actually is on these machines. Maye that's the answer. Can they set it much lower? Not sure how I would ever know that. Guess could track it for a reasonably large number of hands. Can they set that differently by game or just for the machine generally?
Viper21
Viper21
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June 1st, 2023 at 7:36:54 PM permalink
You are not using the wizards video poker analyzer and it should say on the vp game the probability in the rules
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 7:45:39 PM permalink
The whole point of me posting this here is that I think I have to be doing something wrong. I just am not understanding what it is. The below is what I get from the analyzer.

My path is to go to the Wizard of Odds site. Then Game Calculators. Then Video Poker. Game Dream Card Poker. Then Deuces Wild. Then the paytable I've posted. I THINK I'm using the Wizards analyzer. Help me understand if I am not doing it right.

Dream Card Poker: Deuces Wild

Outcome Prize Combinations Probability Frequency Variance Return
Natural Royal Flush 4,000 145,110,258,630 0.000175 5,723.59 27.785389 0.069886
Four Deuces 1,000 1,107,879,019,437 0.001334 749.68 13.017779 0.133391
Wild Royal Flush 150 4,191,023,150,566 0.005046 198.17 0.959345 0.075691
Five of a Kind 95 7,121,294,990,068 0.008574 116.63 0.589011 0.081455
Straight Flush 75 12,144,374,106,035 0.014622 68.39 0.578196 0.109665
Four of a Kind 30 106,094,842,533,853 0.127740 7.83 0.408515 0.383221
Full House 25 20,937,444,030,834 0.025209 39.67 0.041840 0.063023
Flush 15 23,202,031,378,319 0.027936 35.80 0.002322 0.041904
Straight 10 68,477,233,271,061 0.082448 12.13 0.003695 0.082448
Three of a Kind 5 284,076,956,801,889 0.342034 2.92 0.173246 0.171017
All Other 0 303,053,082,009,308 0.364882 2.74 0.535726 0.000000
Totals 830,551,271,550,000 1.000000 1.57 44.095066 1.211700
Viper21
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June 1st, 2023 at 7:51:00 PM permalink
That looks like the right analyzer. Think you are just missing the dream card probability. It's right there before clicking analyze
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 7:54:49 PM permalink
Ah!!! See it now. But what should I change it to??? Couldn't know what it is and all the paytables on the Wizards site say .59%. Is it possible to be something other than .59%?
Viper21
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June 1st, 2023 at 7:57:21 PM permalink
Yes. Like I said, the game will likely say it in the rules.
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 1st, 2023 at 8:14:22 PM permalink
Ok. Will check in the See Pays when back there next. Never looked for something like that before.
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 2nd, 2023 at 10:42:25 AM permalink
Ok. Mystery solved (at least to a point). There are actually 2 very different Dream Card games. Draw Poker with Dream Card is the game I've played for a long time at Red Rock and other places. It is the game with 15/9/4/4 being 99.91%. Dream Card prob is .59 on all the deuces varieties.

DREAM CARD (as opposed to Draw Poker with Dream Card) does a really unusual thing. Rather than deal you a random 4 card hand and then either a Dream Card or another random card, DREAM CARD deals out in the background 3 random 4 card hands, adds a dream card to them to choose the 5th card and then chooses the best EV hand of those 3 and deals it to you. The Dream Card prob on this game is 16%. So much smaller Dream Card prob, but starting hand is the best of 3 done in the background. Found a post from the Wizard from 2018 where he explains this new game some and also says he hadn't yet at that point figured out how to do the analyzer taking into account the best of three random hand thing going on in the background.

The analyzer still doesn't delineate between Draw Poker with Dream card and DREAM CARD. Analyzer works on Draw Poker with Dream Card. So I think i am stymied at this point from knowing the payout of this new game, but as I suspected it couldn't possibly be 121%...
heatmap
heatmap
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June 2nd, 2023 at 4:14:18 PM permalink
Quote: ArkyVPguy

Ok. Mystery solved (at least to a point). There are actually 2 very different Dream Card games. Draw Poker with Dream Card is the game I've played for a long time at Red Rock and other places. It is the game with 15/9/4/4 being 99.91%. Dream Card prob is .59 on all the deuces varieties.

DREAM CARD (as opposed to Draw Poker with Dream Card) does a really unusual thing. Rather than deal you a random 4 card hand and then either a Dream Card or another random card, DREAM CARD deals out in the background 3 random 4 card hands, adds a dream card to them to choose the 5th card and then chooses the best EV hand of those 3 and deals it to you. The Dream Card prob on this game is 16%. So much smaller Dream Card prob, but starting hand is the best of 3 done in the background. Found a post from the Wizard from 2018 where he explains this new game some and also says he hadn't yet at that point figured out how to do the analyzer taking into account the best of three random hand thing going on in the background.

The analyzer still doesn't delineate between Draw Poker with Dream card and DREAM CARD. Analyzer works on Draw Poker with Dream Card. So I think i am stymied at this point from knowing the payout of this new game, but as I suspected it couldn't possibly be 121%...
link to original post



interesting revelations happening here yall apparently this feature happens on machines other than tournament machines as well then...

can you link to the wizards analysis page you were talking about

ArkyVPguy
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June 2nd, 2023 at 5:07:09 PM permalink
/games /video-poker /analyzer/

You'll have to reconstruct. I am not allowed yet to post links...
ArkyVPguy
ArkyVPguy
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June 2nd, 2023 at 5:08:14 PM permalink
http s:// wizardofodds /games /video-poker /analyzer/
heatmap
heatmap
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June 2nd, 2023 at 5:26:34 PM permalink
okay not seeing the exact thing you referenced about the "background hands"... tbh i dont think the wizard would ever take on the responsibility of having that claim be "truth" on any of his websites and will remain speculation by me and whoever chooses to believe it is happening on machines other than tournament machines

edit

ok https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/dream-card-poker/

this is big for me tbh its the first mention that ive seen which confirms that this feature is ... well its available to anyone who wants to pay the creator of this feature to use in their games and can be used anywhere in fully random slots
Dieter
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Dieter
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June 2nd, 2023 at 9:26:48 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

okay not seeing the exact thing you referenced about the "background hands"... tbh i dont think the wizard would ever take on the responsibility of having that claim be "truth" on any of his websites and will remain speculation by me and whoever chooses to believe it is happening on machines other than tournament machines

edit

ok https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/dream-card-poker/

this is big for me tbh its the first mention that ive seen which confirms that this feature is ... well its available to anyone who wants to pay the creator of this feature to use in their games and can be used anywhere in fully random slots
link to original post



I believe Bob Dancer mentioned that there were multiple versions of "dream card" on the GWAE podcast when "dream card" was the featured video poker game of the week.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Sandybestdog
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June 4th, 2023 at 8:13:30 AM permalink
Iíve seen a few versions of dream card and also super triple play that have odd pay tables. Iíve seen one JOB game where full houses pay 55 coins. If you divide the 10 coin version by 2 the pay table is often 120% or something. But you canít actually play that pay table for 5 coins you have to play 10 coins and play with the dream card or other feature. Presumably they have the altered pay table to make the game return work with how often the dream card shows up.

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