Poll

2 votes (12.5%)
No votes (0%)
7 votes (43.75%)
7 votes (43.75%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (12.5%)
2 votes (12.5%)
3 votes (18.75%)
5 votes (31.25%)
1 vote (6.25%)

16 members have voted

3for3
3for3
Joined: Jan 29, 2014
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 42
Thanks for this post from:
gordonm888Mission146tringlomane
June 26th, 2021 at 7:55:53 AM permalink
Two things I have noticed on this game:

1. You don't always get the best score for a hand. I had a 7x multiplier on a flush (playing 2s) and no multiplier on a SF. The machine gave me the 50 for the SF instead of 105 for the flush.

2. I think the strategy is FAR more complicated than just analyzing the game state as is. Say you have a very large multiplier on a flush. A 'basic' strategy using that multiplier will lead you to making plays that are likely to produce at most one flush. For example, it might suggest ATs is a better hold than AQo. But, getting just one flush clears that multiplier, and leaves you in a worse state for the next hand. You might easily flop a 4 flush, where 2 or more is common, or better yet flop a made flush.
3for3
3for3
Joined: Jan 29, 2014
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 42
Thanks for this post from:
rsactuarytringlomane
July 5th, 2021 at 8:21:50 AM permalink
A few more thoughts:

One is that you sometimes want to hold a 'bad' card; again, using 2's wild, it can easily be the case where 4K pays more than 5K; if you flop 4K, hold the kicker! If they pay the same, it is still clear to hold the kicker (you don't erase the 5K multiplier)

The game state can get VERY bad; if you clear the multipliers for <4K, you are playing game where the return might be as low as ~50%. Even if this game were somehow playable, it would be very likely that you should just stop and move to another variant.
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
  • Threads: 558
  • Posts: 3481
September 5th, 2021 at 7:54:16 AM permalink

Maxxed straight and flush.
Anyone have link to a return calculator for ult x gold?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 15308
Thanks for this post from:
100xOdds
September 5th, 2021 at 9:10:44 AM permalink
Just use the regular VP Calculator and make the adjustments. That looks to be almost 137% on a ten-coin bet excluding:

1.) The value of future earned multipliers.

AND

2. It treats all quads 5-K as paying 125 even though JQK pay more than that, at present.

So, it’s better than 137%, at the moment. I think you’d be pretty safe even playing normal strategy, though some dealt Full Houses MIGHT result in you wanting to break off trips (A234—Aces definitely) but you can use the hand calculator to figure out if that is the case.

Edit: Just checked, you’ll want to snap trip 2’s, 3’s, 4’s off a dealt full house, as well. You’ll break Aces off of dealt 2P (even though 2P is 2-For-1, but remember no kicker needed for 3600 credit Aces) and it looks like you prefer dealt full house to trip JQK at this time.

NOTE: For quads 5-K, with this paytable, it looks like a 5x multiplier is when you start snapping trips off of FH if no FH multiplier. Aces—True with ANY multiplier and no FH multiplier. 2/3/4—TRUE with 3x multiplier and no FH multiplier.

If you’re finding lots of plays, my advice is to write down all the paytables and play with the hand analyzer to get more ideas when you snap pairs off of two pairs (this will only happen with Aces) and trips off of dealt FH. The quads are where you’re going to realize a lot of value on these plays.
Last edited by: Mission146 on Sep 5, 2021
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
  • Threads: 558
  • Posts: 3481
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
September 5th, 2021 at 2:04:02 PM permalink
thx Mis!

in another game, i had a maxxed out straight and hit 2 straights and both got the 9x multiplier.
that makes playing 10play better than 5play or 3 play?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 15308
September 5th, 2021 at 2:21:37 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

thx Mis!

in another game, i had a maxxed out straight and hit 2 straights and both got the 9x multiplier.
that makes playing 10play better than 5play or 3 play?

  • link to original post



    Percentage-wise or expected profit wise? Assuming same paytables, denomination and multipliers (and that it’s an advantageous spread to begin with); the more the merrier.

    Three-Hand might artificially appear better in the short-term if you’re hitting lots of strong hands…because hitting a 9x hand on three-play is more relative to your total bet…but those occasional dealt hands are where that gets made up on ten-hand. Speaking long-term, of course.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    3for3
    3for3
    Joined: Jan 29, 2014
    • Threads: 0
    • Posts: 42
    September 7th, 2021 at 7:25:26 AM permalink
    I get 'only' 129%. Not sure what one of us did wrong.

    This gave me a chance to look at some strategies for this game. The first hand I was dealt QJ997, no 3 flush. I held the 99. This is worth about 3.97 coins. Proper strategy is to hold the QJ9 and go for the straight. That is worth 5.58 coins. This is clearly the correct play if you are just playing this one hand; however, if you knock out the straight the game goes to 109% on the next hand.

    If you are playing 3 play, this might be the right idea, but if you are playing 10 play, it probably isn't. Your chances of getting a straight is only 1 in 34, but more importantly, your chances of getting multiple straights is quite poor.

    My guess is that the general idea here is to avoid hands with 3 straights/flushes, and make your normal play on those hands. If you get a hand with a 4 flush/straight, it is clearly right to go for the big payoff, even breaking up a made hand to do so.

    Of course all of that means the game is not really 129%; if you play for the long(er) haul, you will miss straights and flushes that the 1 game play would have gotten
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    September 7th, 2021 at 7:54:11 AM permalink
    Quote: 3for3

    I get 'only' 129%. Not sure what one of us did wrong.

    This gave me a chance to look at some strategies for this game. The first hand I was dealt QJ997, no 3 flush. I held the 99. This is worth about 3.97 coins. Proper strategy is to hold the QJ9 and go for the straight. That is worth 5.58 coins. This is clearly the correct play if you are just playing this one hand; however, if you knock out the straight the game goes to 109% on the next hand.

    If you are playing 3 play, this might be the right idea, but if you are playing 10 play, it probably isn't. Your chances of getting a straight is only 1 in 34, but more importantly, your chances of getting multiple straights is quite poor.

    My guess is that the general idea here is to avoid hands with 3 straights/flushes, and make your normal play on those hands. If you get a hand with a 4 flush/straight, it is clearly right to go for the big payoff, even breaking up a made hand to do so.

    Of course all of that means the game is not really 129%; if you play for the long(er) haul, you will miss straights and flushes that the 1 game play would have gotten

  • link to original post



    Game: Bonus Poker

    Calculator: https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/

    Values:

    Royal Flush: 8000
    Straight Flush: 250
    Quad Aces: 3600
    Quad 234: 1800
    Quad 5-K (Simplicity): 125
    Full House: 30
    Flush: 225
    Straight: 140 (THERE IT IS!!!)
    Trips: 15
    Two Pair: 10
    High Pair: 5

    Bet Amount: 10

    Result: 120.68% (Not counting increase to KQJ Quads)

    The mistake I made was I saw, "Maxed Straight and Flush," and saw the straight as 9x, but the straight is 7x---my bad. That's on me. I should have been paying closer attention.

    The strategy deviations I said would still be correct as the straight would have nothing to do with those changes. All of those hands make a straight impossible in the first place.

    Those are interesting points about playing for the long haul. I think my inclination would be just to make the best EV hold for whatever is on the board and only to be playing for current EV...but your strategy is probably better. No flush and I'm pretty sure I would automatically hold the pair anyway...even with the 7x straight, I wouldn't have guessed the straight draw to be worth more or even thought enough to look up the hand, to be honest.
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
    3for3
    3for3
    Joined: Jan 29, 2014
    • Threads: 0
    • Posts: 42
    September 7th, 2021 at 1:41:01 PM permalink
    You can get the 'exact' number using Super Double Bonus, as that game has categories foe Quad Kings/Queens/Jacks.

    Looking at the basic strategy; you never redraw, always better to hold a 2 flush.

    This game would be a nightmare to truly program. I wonder how they did it.
    Mission146
    Mission146
    Joined: May 15, 2012
    • Threads: 133
    • Posts: 15308
    September 7th, 2021 at 1:46:22 PM permalink
    Thanks for the tip on using the SDB paytable!
    https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

    • Jump to: