EarlyBird
EarlyBird
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June 7th, 2020 at 8:05:42 AM permalink
What would the expected return be for Joker Poker (18-7-5) if it pushed on Jacks or better instead of Kings or better?
AxelWolf
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June 7th, 2020 at 8:41:14 AM permalink
Quote: EarlyBird

What would the expected return be for Joker Poker (18-7-5) if it pushed on Jacks or better instead of Kings or better?

I don't have a program that'll do that. but I assume it's around 110% give or take a few percent. At that point it doesn't really matter, you would absolutely crush this in no time at all.

I keep hearing a rumor that somehow this game is actually around, It's always, well... I know a guy that knows a guy. I heard somebody wanted a significant amount of money up front for the information, but whenever I ask for a picture nobody can produce one, uh... Yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen.

I've seen stranger things happen, so who knows? But, I'm not paying money upfront in this particular situation. I would be highly skeptical as to why in God's Earth would somebody sell that instead of just playing it? I don't think I'd trust anybody that couldn't borrow $200 from somebody play it for themselves. Even then, they could just find a trustworthy Advantage player the play the machine and just split the profits with them without ever investing a dime themselves.

Situation would just strike me as odd and I would find it very hard to believe whatever excuses they came up with why they needed money now and upfront. Even if somebody and led me to the game and I seen it for my own eyes, I still wouldn't pay very much money up front, it would have to be some kind of free roll deal for them. And not because it wouldn't be really valuable, I would just think there was something suspicious going on at this point.

P.S. Even a ploppy would beat the game, I understand if it's on a multi game it might not get played all that often.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GaryJKoehler
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June 7th, 2020 at 9:10:28 AM permalink
Quote: EarlyBird

What would the expected return be for Joker Poker (18-7-5) if it pushed on Jacks or better instead of Kings or better?


For a Jacks or Better Joker Poker game with pay table 800-200-100-50-18-7-5-3-1-1, I believe the EV is 107.46%. Kings or Better is 98.94%

If the Royal pays 940, the two numbers are 107.83% versus 99.29%.
tringlomane
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June 7th, 2020 at 9:10:56 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I don't have a program that'll do that. but I assume it's around 110% give or take a few percent. At that point it doesn't really matter, you would absolutely crush this in no time at all.

I keep hearing a rumor that somehow this game is actually around, It's always, well... I know a guy that knows a guy. I heard somebody wanted a significant amount of money up front for the information, but whenever I ask for a picture nobody can produce one, uh... Yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen.

I've seen stranger things happen, so who knows? But, I'm not paying money upfront in this particular situation. I would be highly skeptical as to why in God's Earth would somebody sell that instead of just playing it? I don't think I'd trust anybody that couldn't borrow $200 from somebody play it for themselves. Even then, they could just find a trustworthy Advantage player the play the machine and just split the profits with them without ever investing a dime themselves.

Situation would just strike me as odd and I would find it very hard to believe whatever excuses they came up with why they needed money now and upfront. Even if somebody and led me to the game and I seen it for my own eyes, I still wouldn't pay very much money up front, it would have to be some kind of free roll deal for them. And not because it wouldn't be really valuable, I would just think there was something suspicious going on at this point.

P.S. Even a ploppy would beat the game, I understand if it's on a multi game it might not get played all that often.



And if it's some foreign looking machine, I wouldn't assume it's dealt from a standard deck either.
AxelWolf
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June 7th, 2020 at 9:13:33 AM permalink
Quote: GaryJKoehler

For a Jacks or Better Joker Poker game with pay table 800-200-100-50-18-7-5-3-1-1, I believe the EV is 107.46%. Kings or Better is 98.94%

If the Royal pays 940, the two numbers are 107.83% versus 99.29%.

Did you run that on a program? If so, can we get a screenshot please?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WTflush
WTflush
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June 7th, 2020 at 11:34:34 AM permalink
If you know where this game is (was? might be gone now) for the love of God please don't tell anyone here or post it. Would be ruined in a day.
EarlyBird
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June 7th, 2020 at 11:48:40 AM permalink
I now know what I wanted to know and don't intend to provide any details. Sounds like if one were to find such a payscale, learning the strategy would not be critical as the return would be high. In fact, it might be wise to avoid some hand pays so as to not draw attention. I'll keep that in mind should I ever find such a payscale.
WTflush
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June 7th, 2020 at 12:05:59 PM permalink
Quote: EarlyBird

I now know what I wanted to know and don't intend to provide any details. Sounds like if one were to find such a payscale, learning the strategy would not be critical as the return would be high. In fact, it might be wise to avoid some hand pays so as to not draw attention. I'll keep that in mind should I ever find such a payscale.



If you ever find such a paytable you could play it at 4 credits and it would still be like 104% with no handpays at the dollar credit level.
billryan
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bobbartop
June 7th, 2020 at 12:23:18 PM permalink
On the East Coast, a lot of bars have Joker Poker machines called Broadway Poker, which has great payables and push on Jacks or better. However, the paytables on these machines do not reflect the expected return. I've seen many a person think they were playing positive machines not realizing the house hold can be over 30%
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
GaryJKoehler
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June 7th, 2020 at 12:28:27 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Did you run that on a program? If so, can we get a screenshot please?


I used PlayPerfect Pro+

tringlomane
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June 7th, 2020 at 12:40:32 PM permalink
Quote: EarlyBird

I now know what I wanted to know and don't intend to provide any details. Sounds like if one were to find such a payscale, learning the strategy would not be critical as the return would be high. In fact, it might be wise to avoid some hand pays so as to not draw attention. I'll keep that in mind should I ever find such a payscale.



I would also make sure you were playing in a jurisdiction where VP is mandated to be dealt from a standard poker deck with each card being equally likely.

As far as strategy, I would assume high card holds act like Jacks or Better.
AnneNiemous
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June 28th, 2020 at 10:55:31 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf



I keep hearing a rumor that somehow this game is actually around, It's always, well... I know a guy that knows a guy. I heard somebody wanted a significant amount of money up front for the information, but whenever I ask for a picture nobody can produce one, uh... Yeah, sorry, that's not going to happen.

I've seen stranger things happen, so who knows? But, I'm not paying money upfront in this particular situation. I would be highly skeptical as to why in God's Earth would somebody sell that instead of just playing it? I don't think I'd trust anybody that couldn't borrow $200 from somebody play it for themselves. Even then, they could just find a trustworthy Advantage player the play the machine and just split the profits with them without ever investing a dime themselves.

Situation would just strike me as odd and I would find it very hard to believe whatever excuses they came up with why they needed money now and upfront. Even if somebody and led me to the game and I seen it for my own eyes, I still wouldn't pay very much money up front, it would have to be some kind of free roll deal for them. And not because it wouldn't be really valuable, I would just think there was something suspicious going on at this point.

P.S. Even a ploppy would beat the game, I understand if it's on a multi game it might not get played all that often.



I can confirm it was real for about 6 weeks, and the game has been removed.
tringlomane
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June 29th, 2020 at 12:34:02 AM permalink
Quote: AnneNiemous

I can confirm it was real for about 6 weeks, and the game has been removed.



Willing to disclose the casino? Or at least the general area? Machine brand?

Because the way IGT does things, I think it would be unlikely to happen. Maybe it was an Aristocrat bartop. Hahaha
AnneNiemous
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June 29th, 2020 at 12:51:07 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Willing to disclose the casino? Or at least the general area? Machine brand?

Because the way IGT does things, I think it would be unlikely to happen. Maybe it was an Aristocrat bartop. Hahaha



I'm not sure its my place to disclose the name of the casino or state, but I'll say that its in the Midwest, and not terribly far away from you. I just came here to say that I witnessed it in action and can confirm the rumor Axel heard was true.
AxelWolf
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June 30th, 2020 at 5:32:34 AM permalink
Quote: AnneNiemous

I'm not sure its my place to disclose the name of the casino or state, but I'll say that its in the Midwest, and not terribly far away from you. I just came here to say that I witnessed it in action and can confirm the rumor Axel heard was true.



So this is a class 3 machine? Is it IGT because I find it odd that they would make such a big mistake. And what denomination? Hopefully we'll see a legitimate picture at some point in the future. So this is actually a pay table and not a situation where the pay table says one thing but the machine is actually paying another?

I have sing some juicy looking pay tables at first glance only two realize it takes an extra corn what's some nonsense like that. There's a six claim Deuces Wild game out there that looks really juicy Until you realize it takes an extra credit to enjoy the juicy payouts.

Anyways anyways, that's kind of interesting because I heard there was one on the West Coast.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AnneNiemous
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June 30th, 2020 at 10:27:09 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

So this is a class 3 machine?


Yes.

Quote: AxelWolf

Is it IGT because I find it odd that they would make such a big mistake.


Yes
Quote: AxelWolf

And what denomination?



$2

Quote: AxelWolf

Hopefully we'll see a legitimate picture at some point in the future. So this is actually a pay table and not a situation where the pay table says one thing but the machine is actually paying another?



I can confirm it pays as it says, I was just as skeptic as you.

Quote: AxelWolf


I have sing some juicy looking pay tables at first glance only two realize it takes an extra corn what's some nonsense like that. There's a six claim Deuces Wild game out there that looks really juicy Until you realize it takes an extra credit to enjoy the juicy payouts.

Anyways anyways, that's kind of interesting because I heard there was one on the West Coast.



Its not the west coast, but its possible one can be out there.
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