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SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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TomGFTB
September 28th, 2019 at 4:29:27 AM permalink
Here's a question these forums never seem to address. Suppose, like 99% of the video poker players in America, you don't have access to +EV games, your comps can't make up the difference and your bankroll is limited? Simple math tells you these games are unbeatable. You hope for the best. Those of us who are in this group know this problem all too well.

You buy software that can give you the correct hand plays for any pay schedule. You practice until you are satisfied with your accuracy. You gather a bankroll equal to 4-6 royals and head to the casino. If you play a 97% game accurately, you will pay at least 3% for your entertainment. You might find better games, but they are still negative. Comps and free play will offset some of the cost. Eventually, you either quit the game or adjust your cost to fit your personal preference.

Video poker strategy for a Recreational player is not about winning or losing long term. It's about obtaining the most entertainment value for your dollar. Your choice is to stay home or pay to play. There is no math that will tell you how to lose and be happy about it. Only you can make that decision.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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ForagerRisingDough
September 28th, 2019 at 4:47:04 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

Here's a question these forums never seem to address. Suppose, like 99% of the video poker players in America, you don't have access to +EV games, your comps can't make up the difference and your bankroll is limited? Simple math tells you these games are unbeatable. You hope for the best. Those of us who are in this group know this problem all too well.

You buy software that can give you the correct hand plays for any pay schedule. You practice until you are satisfied with your accuracy. You gather a bankroll equal to 4-6 royals and head to the casino. If you play a 97% game accurately, you will pay at least 3% for your entertainment. You might find better games, but they are still negative. Comps and free play will offset some of the cost. Eventually, you either quit the game or adjust your cost to fit your personal preference.

Video poker strategy for a Recreational player is not about winning or losing long term. It's about obtaining the most entertainment value for your dollar. Your choice is to stay home or pay to play. There is no math that will tell you how to lose and be happy about it. Only you can make that decision.

I'm not sure why you needed an entire new Thread about this since you seem to already have one. Anyways, what's the question?

P.S. You do have access to +EV video poker, you just don't know it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
TinMan
TinMan
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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September 28th, 2019 at 4:51:14 AM permalink
I get the point you’re making and the argument for single coin VP. I’m not going to criticize you or anyone for your VP play. Especially when you understand what you’re giving up by single coin vs max coin. That’s a considered personal choice. For me, I think the argument is missing a few considerations. First, casino gambling has to hit a certain minimum $$ at stake to be interesting. I’ve played nickel VP. Even at max coin, It got boring quickly. There was no amount I could win that would be exciting. There was no sweat. That’s an aspect of the “entertainment value” for me. Second and most importantly, VP lets you manipulate the stakes—that is, you can have the opportunity to get full pay on royals AND bet “single” coin if you look at it a certain way. For example, max coin 25 cent is pretty close to single coin $1 VP. So if $1.25 per hand is enough to keep you interested, then you might as well max bet 25 cent VP over $1 single coin. If you want the numbers to be exactly the same, then change the scenario to nickel/quarter where max coin on the first is exactly the same as single coin on the latter.
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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September 28th, 2019 at 5:56:36 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

You do have access to +EV video poker, you just don't know it.

I have been told this before. I once offered $100 to anyone who could show proof of a net positive video poker game in Florida. The only response was scalping Ultimate X multipliers. If you are caught doing this at our casinos, they will throw you out.

These forums are always dominated by Advantage Players or those who believe they are. That's all and good. What's here for the average player who can't find a game with an advantage? For years I have read about game odds, accuracy and bankroll. I can do the math as well as anyone. What I can't find are games like the books describe. Is there room for these discussions or do you want a forum where everyone talks about games few can find?

I play video poker all over the Southeast. That includes Florida, Mississippi and Cherokee. Show us a verifiable long term +EV video poker game I can play at those casinos and I will send you a check.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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September 28th, 2019 at 6:12:30 AM permalink
So the assumption is there are 5 hookers and you're taking the one which just has syphilis but she's ugly and has a stench. I'd take Pam Anderson and hep C, more fun.
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SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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onenickelmiracle
September 28th, 2019 at 6:20:24 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

So the assumption is there are 5 hookers and you're taking the one which just has syphilis but she's ugly and has a stench. I'd take Pam Anderson and hep C, more fun.

Are you equating playing video poker in a casino to paying for sex? Actually, I do see the correlation. :>)

What I would like to see is a video poker expert discuss this issue in detail. What I have heard is "Don't play negative games." Does anyone think this prevents players from doing so? I have no problem with paying to play. I don't want to pay more than I have to. Someone should talk about this.

I assume these forums are here to help players. If all we talk about are advantage games and winning, who is helped? Negative games are the biggest challenge in video poker today. Coming soon to a casino near you.
TigerWu
TigerWu
Joined: May 23, 2016
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September 28th, 2019 at 8:12:24 AM permalink
I don't play video poker, but I am definitely an "unadvantage player."

I play -EV games "responsibly" in order to maximize my fun while minimizing my losses. I just assume that whenever I walk into a casino I am going to come out a loser. Like you said, it's paying for entertainment.
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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September 28th, 2019 at 8:22:00 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I don't play video poker, but I am definitely an "unadvantage player."

I play -EV games "responsibly" in order to maximize my fun while minimizing my losses. I just assume that whenever I walk into a casino I am going to come out a loser. Like you said, it's paying for entertainment.

I believe most of us are. The casino lets me win once in a while so I will come back. I believe advantage play exists as do advantage players. I also believe the experts would help more people if they didn't assume everyone considers themselves inferior if they aren't.

I have been experimenting lately with slot play. I'm sure the odds are worse. The play is slower and the comps are better. I have to admit some are entertaining.
gordonm888
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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September 28th, 2019 at 8:55:51 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP


I assume these forums are here to help players. If all we talk about are advantage games and winning, who is helped? Negative games are the biggest challenge in video poker today. Coming soon to a casino near you.



Actually, I observe that there are very few posts about the specifics of advantage play. Most of game discussion here is about -EV games and trimming the House Edge as much as possible with expert play. For example, the current thread on Single Deck BJ Simulation talks about trimming the House edge from 0.35% to 0.29%.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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September 28th, 2019 at 9:28:37 AM permalink
I have only been on this forum for a few weeks, so I don't have an opinion. There definitely is an advantage play bias on some forums. I see nothing wrong with teaching advantage play as long as you state openly that few can achieve it. 100% computer perfect play is assumed to be easy. This is far from the case. There is also an issue with finding +EV games. I suspect a real AP would never divulge a profitable opportunity on a public forum. These opportunities are rare and you certainly wouldn't want to create more competition.

I believe this forum is better than most. I have been impressed with the tone and quality of the answers. No one is selling anything, promoting something or pushing an agenda. I go to the casino to have fun. I like talking about the games I play and what happens when I do. I like to read comments from regular players like me, not just experts.

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