Rigged VP machines (pull tabs) shouldn't it be disclosed?

After consistently losing a lot of money playing 9/6 JOB on what appeared to be the usual video poker machines I realized recently that they are all pull tab machines as defined in the glossary by the wizard. If you hold none or only one card a three of a kind you will always get the same 3 of a kind at the draw. Same with four of a kind, Full House, etc. That includes single and multi draw game machines .. All machines look like standard IGT machines with very favorable pay tables and it is not an Indian Casino.
My question: Is this legal and don't they have to disclose that these machines are not using a 52 card deck, as is the standard, and of course that these machines are preprogrammed? They are false advertising and robbing people.

Quote: Htj99

After consistently losing a lot of money playing 9/6 JOB on what appeared to be the usual video poker machines I realized recently that they are all pull tab machines as defined in the glossary by the wizard. If you hold none or only one card a three of a kind you will always get the same 3 of a kind at the draw. Same with four of a kind, Full House, etc. That includes single and multi draw game machines .. All machines look like standard IGT machines with very favorable pay tables and it is not an Indian Casino.
My question: Is this legal and don't they have to disclose that these machines are not using a 52 card deck, as is the standard, and of course that these machines are preprogrammed? They are false advertising and robbing people.

Yes, but these agencies are self-regulating. They owe themselves your money more than they owe you the truth.













Mic drop.

It probably depends on what state you are in.

Quote: Htj99

After consistently losing a lot of money playing 9/6 JOB on what appeared to be the usual video poker machines I realized recently that they are all pull tab machines as defined in the glossary by the wizard. If you hold none or only one card a three of a kind you will always get the same 3 of a kind at the draw. Same with four of a kind, Full House, etc. That includes single and multi draw game machines .. All machines look like standard IGT machines with very favorable pay tables and it is not an Indian Casino.
My question: Is this legal and don't they have to disclose that these machines are not using a 52 card deck, as is the standard, and of course that these machines are preprogrammed? They are false advertising and robbing people.

Look up "Class II slots/video poker"

These are all over NYC

I am talking about New York State. Is there a no recourse for this?? it's amazing that this is allowed without requiring them to make it obvious these are not real VP machines.

They are vlt terminals - that is the law

If you are a gambler you are looked upon as fair prey. This is true of everyone who interacts with you, the casino, the state, the IRS, even other gamblers who might bet with you.

Look at how the IRS recently wanted "something fierce" to issue W2-gs for $600 instead of $1200. Consider how this kind of thinking must have arisen. Here you have a class of people who consistently get screwed by IRS rules as they are - some 66% IIRC taking the standard deduction on their taxes and surely some 99% losing money gambling over the course of a year*, getting milked for this activity by the agency tasked with collecting tax on income. Gambling is not income [except to very few]. Yet here we are with the people in the agency dreaming up ways to steal even more.

Why? You are prey, sir. You had better understand that.

*99.99% if over more than a one year period, I have to suspect

Quote: Htj99

I am talking about New York State. Is there a no recourse for this?? it's amazing that this is allowed without requiring them to make it obvious these are not real VP machines.

Hmmm... Maybe it all depends on your definition of "obvious." The New York State Gaming and Racing Commission Rules and Regulations do require the following for all video lottery terminals (VLTs):

Quote:

§ 5118.2. Display of rules of play.
(a) Each video lottery gaming terminal vendor shall be responsible for displaying the
rules of play for a video lottery terminal on the face or screen of the video lottery
terminal or be capable of such display at the player’s option through use of an easily-
accessible “help” screen.
(b) The rules of play for a particular video lottery terminal game shall be evaluated and approved by the commission. The commission may reject the rules if it is determined that the rules are incomplete, conflicting, confusing, or misleading.
(c) The rules of play for a particular video lottery terminal game shall not be altered without prior approval of the commission.
(d) Stickers or other removable devices shall not be placed on the face of the video lottery terminal unless their placement is approved in writing or required by the commission.

But, of course, NY VLTs are not "regular" gaming machines, right? According to a report by the UNLV Center for Gaming Research, "slots" in NY have an average "hold" between 7.0% and 8.4%, which is far worse than the worst "regular" video poker gaming machines. As the report notes, the sole purpose of NY gaming is to raise money for education while providing, "innovative, fun, and entertaining games." Here's the link to the UNLV report:

New York Gaming Summary

I dunno what the "Rules of Play" text stated on the video poker VLTs you played. But, if they were "incomplete, conflicting, confusing, or misleading," and if you have a good attorney, you might have a valid case.

Good luck. Keep WoV posted if you decide to duke it out with the NY State Gaming and Racing Commission.

You might need god as an attorney to win a case against NYC for that specific issue

I've been warning players for more than 15 years not to play at New York racinos --- because of what you described. It was my understanding that the machines at New York tribal casinos were much more like the machines in Nevada. But I haven't played at these casinos to verify this.

For those of you who live near and/or play in New York tribal casinos, do the machines there seem fair?

(82) Player means a natural person who inserts currency, a voucher, or other item of
value into the video lottery terminal to purchase video lottery gaming tickets.

(108) Video lottery game means any lottery game played on a video lottery terminal
that consists of multiple players competing for a chance to win a randomly drawn
prize.

(121) Video lottery gaming system means a system that consists of video lottery
terminals, connected to a central system that permit players to purchase video lottery
gaming tickets.

(122) Video lottery gaming ticket means an electronic instrument produced by a video
lottery terminal or video lottery gaming system that represents the outcome of a
particular video lottery game.

(123) Video lottery terminal (may be referred to as VLT) means a video display
terminal in which currency or credits are deposited and a selection is made by the
player in order to purchase video lottery gaming tickets. A terminal shall be
considered a video lottery terminal notwithstanding the use of an electronic credit
system making the deposit of bills unnecessary.

Games at NYS racinos are lottery based. New York at the time didn't authorize racinos to allow what most people consider as "real" video poker. It's dumb, imo, but politicans are often dumb.

Quote: BobDancer

I've been warning players for more than 15 years not to play at New York racinos --- because of what you described. It was my understanding that the machines at New York tribal casinos were much more like the machines in Nevada. But I haven't played at these casinos to verify this.

For those of you who live near and/or play in New York tribal casinos, do the machines there seem fair?

Never played there, but most of the tribes have Class III compacts, and those that do are likely running "Vegas Style" VP. New York is seriously backwards.

I never thought New York hid it- it's pretty obvious and the stickers are all over the casino

Play vp for a couple minutes and you will see when you make a will correct it

Quote: BobDancer

I've been warning players for more than 15 years not to play at New York racinos --- because of what you described. It was my understanding that the machines at New York tribal casinos were much more like the machines in Nevada. But I haven't played at these casinos to verify this.

For those of you who live near and/or play in New York tribal casinos, do the machines there seem fair?

The machines at both the Turning Stone Casino and it's sister casino Yellow Brick Road offer traditional Vegas style video poker machines now a days.

Originally the video poker they offered was the pull tab kind. But that was many years ago. That was when you had to load money onto a players card and put that into the machine instead of cash. When they got rid of that system and allowed people to put cash directly into slot and video poker machines they dropped the pull tab system in favor of the traditional Vegas RNG system.

So, yes, the machines are as fair as the pay tables show.