NOT Vulturing Ultimate X
I wondered if this was a ridiculously bad game to just play, forget vulturing. I had my suspicions, the WoO page certainly showed better paytables. But I played for a bit with the strategy to get a multiplier going, try to hit a big one with a nice win, call that a hand when there were no mulitpliers, and maybe play 2 hands and call it quits.
The thing I didn't like was that the combination of 3-play with 10 units @ 25c, per play too means $7.50 per round. I saw that the last people who were playing these things often played for a nickel per unit, perhaps not knowing the paytable got even worse, but risking only $1.50 per round to get multipliers. So even though I had pre-determined not to plop down and keep playing, the sensation that the game was just eating you alive was very strong. Really, I can't see doing it.
I'm not sure what questions to ask if I made this a poll. Perhaps people should just comment.
WoO Return Tables: https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/basics/#toc-ReturnTables
Quote: GWAEI am not sure what comments you are looking for but ultimate x is fun but the variance can be horid. I will usually stick 50 in and play .10 5 play and hope to make it more than 10 minutes.
I think we will get comments like this [and it is what I am looking for]. But somebody might like it. Getting big hits at 7X or something might make you decide you like it LOL.
The Wizard, in his thread about single line, seems to suggest he might not like multiplay generally [not to be construed as anything other than preference I think]. It's putting a lot into action.
Have you looked at the paytable change for 10 cent? and not going for multipliers, eh?
Quote: odiousgambitI think we will get comments like this [and it is what I am looking for]. But somebody might like it. Getting big hits at 7X or something might make you decide you like it LOL.
The Wizard, in his thread about single line, seems to suggest he might not like multiplay generally [not to be construed as anything other than preference I think]. It's putting a lot into action.
Have you looked at the paytable change for 10 cent? and not going for multipliers, eh?
You know I have never once looked at a paytable for UX. I always just assume it is going to be crapppy. I only play it for the chance at a 12x royal. I will either play .25 3 play or .10 5 play. I don't play it often because I don't have a bankroll anywhere near adequate for those games.
Ultimate X straight up is definitely a rollercoaster. I rarely play it that way for longer than 5 minutes.
Quote: tringlomaneIt's rare when the paytable changes between nickels and dimes. When I look, it might do that on 2% of the games, tops. So I would rather play 10-line nickels vs. 5-line dimes personally. Quarter and 50c denominations are the same way. Rarely changes.
Ultimate X straight up is definitely a rollercoaster. I rarely play it that way for longer than 5 minutes.
I just don't like when a royal is only $200
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe only time I check is usually when dealt 2 pair and the bald of a full house matters.
Yeah, I check to see if full houses are bald too...haha
But yeah, I check the paytables when I get two pair in deuces. Probably half of the multipliers I play off pay 4 for a full house, typically with the crappy 20/10/8/4/4/3 paytable.
Quote: tringlomaneYeah, I check to see if full houses are bald too...haha
But yeah, I check the paytables when I get two pair in deuces. Probably half of the multipliers I play off pay 4 for a full house, typically with the crappy 20/10/8/4/4/3 paytable.
Yeah, a lot of my plays end up "bald" :-)~
Don't ever play it.
I mentioned that I never pay attention to pay tables on UX because I don't understand how they come in to play. For example if you play 100% game, that wpull be at 5 credits. When you play a game with no multipliers at 10 credits, it is now a 50% game. But if you have all 12x multiple now you are playing a 1200% game. Maybe the multipliers are made so that the overall game is still the same as playing it at 5 credits. I have no idea, but I do know that when I play them it is purely for fun so I don't worry about 1 or 2 percent.
Quote: GWAEI read your blog thingy and was a little confused. Are you playing ux for 5 credits and not vulturing and looking for a better paytable than regular games?
I am quite happy to vulture, but also wondered about just playing. Compared to slots, it seems to be a better HE. But my experience with it was about seeing my money get vacuumed away fast.
Quote:I mentioned that I never pay attention to pay tables on UX because I don't understand how they come in to play. For example if you play 100% game, that wpull be at 5 credits. When you play a game with no multipliers at 10 credits, it is now a 50% game. But if you have all 12x multiple now you are playing a 1200% game. Maybe the multipliers are made so that the overall game is still the same as playing it at 5 credits. I have no idea, but I do know that when I play them it is purely for fun so I don't worry about 1 or 2 percent.
I've assumed that the full HE that the Wizard derives is only realized by playing 10 credits. I could be wrong. At 5 credits, it is going to be less, but a good way [he suggests on his page] to vulture left-behind multipliers since the HE will go over 100% return and it ends any reason to play. This suggests you won't see the Wizard plunked down trying to get more multipliers.
I agree that the less good paytables mean little if you are not really playing much.
Quote: GWAEI read your blog thingy and was a little confused. Are you playing ux for 5 credits and not vulturing and looking for a better paytable than regular games?
I mentioned that I never pay attention to pay tables on UX because I don't understand how they come in to play. For example if you play 100% game, that wpull be at 5 credits. When you play a game with no multipliers at 10 credits, it is now a 50% game. But if you have all 12x multiple now you are playing a 1200% game. Maybe the multipliers are made so that the overall game is still the same as playing it at 5 credits. I have no idea, but I do know that when I play them it is purely for fun so I don't worry about 1 or 2 percent.
In Nevada it is a requirement that as the amount bet goes up the payback percentage can not go down. So playing 10 coins will always have the same or better theoretical return than a 5 coin bet.
Quote: GWAEThank you DR, I never knew that. So I assume when thr math was done on UX, the multipliers are what they are in order to maintain the payback percent.
The strategy is/was generated using the idea that you want to "build" multipliers for future hands as well as win money on this hand. This makes the strategy complex, at least, more complex than typical VP games -- for instance, you'd draw a 3-card-flush (I don't remember if 1 high card is required or not), or you'd hold a 4-flush instead of a 3-RF draw, etc. Then from there, you can figure out what your average multiplier is going to be.
Once you (or Wizard or whoever) has generated the optimal strategy, you can figure out what the ending return (99.xx%) is going to be.
So remember -- just because the return should stay the same or increase, you still gotta take into account that the strategy will most likely change (ie: UX). Of course, other games where it stays the same (hot roll poker, good times pay, etc.), the same "regular" strategy is to be used. And other variants, like STP or Double STP, the strategy remains the same, but the return increases. Another example of a variant where the return increases but the strategy changes is Quick Quads.
If I had to make a guess, and this is an absolute stab in the dark, I'd say 94-96%. But again, absolute guess.
Quote: RSUnfortunately, I don't know. However, I think it wouldn't be too difficult to figure out. Looking at the strategy page (has hand frequencies on it) for DDB, you can determine your average multiplier [assuming you know what each hand gives for future multipliers]. Then I think you'd multiply the return (98.98%, or whatever it is for regular DDB) by the average multiplier...then divide by 2 (since you're playing 10 coins instead of 5).
If I had to make a guess, and this is an absolute stab in the dark, I'd say 94-96%. But again, absolute guess.
Yep you have the right idea. But your guess is way off.
I bothered to do this a handful of months ago. It was much less than I and probably anyone else expected. It costs you roughly 0.6% at DDB. More detailed numbers here.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/16685-vulturing-ultimate-x/40/#post469146
Quote: teddys9/6 Double Double Bonus Ultimate X (99.6-99.8%) does exist is some places, usually for quarters or higher.
Don't ever play it.
I'm missing something. Why wouldn't I want to play that?
You have to enjoy variance to the 1000x power.Quote: beachbumbabsI'm missing something. Why wouldn't I want to play that?
Quote: GWAETring I remember you postong that. For some reason I am surprised that the average multiplier is 2. Not sure why I am surprised since if the return has to stay t he same and you are betting 2x more then the multiplier should be average of 2. I am going to count next time I play for fun.
Short term though, your average multiplier will be very dependent on your luck. Ultimate X is rough because the better hands you get, the better multipliers you get too.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm missing something. Why wouldn't I want to play that?
Quote: teddysYou have to enjoy variance to the 1000x power.
And not run as bad as you did, iirc?
I will either win $100 pretty quickly, or lose $100 pretty quick. And that's just with one hand.
I have played triple hand before - but the pay table was awful. They had me playing 18 credits per hand, but only paying 5 for a non-multiplied pair of jacks or better. I hadn't noticed it, silly me. Cashed out quickly!
