Avincow
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
• Posts: 395
September 15th, 2015 at 5:19:28 PM permalink
I use Wizard's video poker strategy calculator a lot. It gives you the return for optimal play. Let's say I'm in a hurry, and want to calculate my return using a suboptimal strategy. Let's say I just want to use the Jacks of Better Strategy for Bonus Poker. How can I see my return if I play this way?
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
• Posts: 14232
September 15th, 2015 at 5:43:25 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

I use Wizard's video poker strategy calculator a lot. It gives you the return for optimal play. Let's say I'm in a hurry, and want to calculate my return using a suboptimal strategy. Let's say I just want to use the Jacks of Better Strategy for Bonus Poker. How can I see my return if I play this way?

I would suggest you put in Bonus Poker when it asks which game you're playing, then correct the next screen (where it verifies payouts) to reflect the JoB pay table you're playing. The first table that shows up should calculate by your amended payouts, and the bottom right of that table should show the HE with perfect strategy. As a bonus, it will also give you the strategy for that paytable, and you can see how close that strategy is to what you're doing for JoB now.

You could also do the reverse, and that might be even closer to what you're asking; correct the JoB paytable to show Bonus Poker values. But I think the strategy depends on the paytables, so I'd do the first variation I listed first. All speculation on my part, however.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
JB
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 2089
September 15th, 2015 at 10:18:12 PM permalink
Babs is on the right track. You'll need to use Excel or something similar though.

For the specific case of using 9/6 Jacks or Better strategy on 8/5 Bonus Poker, use the video poker calculator and select Bonus Poker as the game, but modify the paytable to match 9/6 Jacks or Better payouts and analyze that, which will come out to 99.5439%.

Now copy just the results (including the header row) and paste it into a new Excel spreadsheet. Doing a paste special (press Alt+E, then S) and choosing Text should produce the best results.

If the totals row was pasted as well, highlight that entire row and delete it. (move to any cell on row 14, press Shift+Space, then Alt+E, then D).

Now you need to change the probability and return columns so that they use formulas, because right now they have hard-coded number values.

The formula in cell D2 (the first value in the Probability column) should be: =C2/SUM(C:C) and then fill that all the way down (highlight cells D2 through D13 and press Ctrl+D).

The formula in cell G2 (the first value in the Return column) should be: =B2*D2/5 and then fill that all the way down (highlight cells G2 through G13 and press Ctrl+D).

Move to cell H1 and type Total, then press Enter to move down to cell H2 and type the formula: =SUM(G:G)

At this point, cell H2 should be showing 0.995439.

Now go to column B and adjust the payouts to match 8/5 Bonus Poker. (Four Aces = 400, Four 2s/3s/4s = 200, Full House = 40, Flush = 25) Once the paytable matches 8/5 Bonus, if you did everything correctly, cell H2 should be showing 0.991582, which means that using 9/6 Jacks or Better strategy on 8/5 Bonus Poker returns 99.1582%.
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
• Posts: 11933
September 15th, 2015 at 10:26:33 PM permalink
Speaking of 8/5 BP, there's something I don't understand about the strategy. On WoO it shows basic strategy as AQo>A,>KQo, but in the exceptions, it says that KQo is the best play. Even if you go to the hand analyzer and plug in a hand like As, Kc, Qd, 7h, 6c, it says KQ is the best play. So why does the strategy chart list the other two above KQ?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
JB
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 2089
September 15th, 2015 at 10:37:07 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Speaking of 8/5 BP, there's something I don't understand about the strategy. On WoO it shows basic strategy as AQo>A,>KQo, but in the exceptions, it says that KQo is the best play. Even if you go to the hand analyzer and plug in a hand like As, Kc, Qd, 7h, 6c, it says KQ is the best play. So why does the strategy chart list the other two above KQ?

It has to do with the other plays in that area of the strategy. The FAQ explains in great detail why the strategy generator says what it says. If you haven't read it, you might find it insightful.
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
• Posts: 11933
September 15th, 2015 at 10:53:49 PM permalink
I got it, thanks JB.

The only place around here with 8/5 BP that I'll play with any regularity is Toledo and since they also have 8/5 SDDB with its higher return, I'll play that instead. And it's already paid off...
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
• Posts: 19282
September 15th, 2015 at 11:46:49 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

I use Wizard's video poker strategy calculator a lot. It gives you the return for optimal play. Let's say I'm in a hurry, and want to calculate my return using a suboptimal strategy. Let's say I just want to use the Jacks of Better Strategy for Bonus Poker. How can I see my return if I play this way?

It's not a big difference in EV. If you're playing something with an advantage, but you're constantly stopping and thinking about marginal plays, you could be costing yourself in terms of hourly. TBH if you know 9/6 perfectly (very few actually do, even though they think they do) You shouldn't have a problem learning 8/5 bonus strategy cold, probably within about 1 hr.

A majority of it is all about learning the holds that involve straight flush possibilities.
IE 9/6 J♥ Q♦ 7♥ 9♥ 3♠ VS 8/5 J♥ Q♦ 7♥ 9♥ 3♠
9/6 K♥ 10♥ 632off VS 8/5 K♥ 10♥ 632off
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
• Posts: 8623
September 16th, 2015 at 2:19:17 AM permalink
No idea what anybody else wrote (didn't read it). Probably good info by AxelWolf [I saw he posted] and Mission [if he posted?].

Anyway, first of all, using JOB strategy for BP is basically the same thing. I think there are tiny minute differences....and it really doesn't matter.

That being said, this is how I do it:

Look up the strategy or whatever and it gives you a chart of the payouts, frequencies, etc. Here it is for 9/6 JOB:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-74-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-6-d-9-d-25-d-50-d-800/

You can do the math lots of different ways. The most accurate is the following:

PAYOUT * COMBINATIONS / TOTAL_COMBINATIONS = return (this is a % number)

For the RF, you'd do:

800 * 493512264 / 19933230517200 = 0.01980661443 (or 1.98...%)

You now do the same thing for all hands. For a FULL HOUSE you would do:

8 * 229,475,482,596 / 19,933,230,517,200 = 0.09209765869 (or 9.209...%)

Of course, it gets a little tricky when you come to bonus hands, like four of a kind A's, 2-4's, 5-K's.

The simplest way to do it is like this: Use the strategy maker but instead of using the 'game type' for jacks or better, use something like DDB. Now change all the respective fields properly, so you end up with the same pay structure as JOB. Like this:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-57-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-6-d-9-d-25-d-25-d-25-d-25-d-25-d-50-d-800/

It's got the DDB "bonus four of a kind" types, but they all pay 25 just like in JOB, and of course we got 2-pair paying 2. So it's all the same, really. But the benefit of this, of course, is you can now see the frequencies for FOUR 2-4's and FOUR A's.

Or you can do this: {same thing, but without kickers n whatnot}

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-37-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-6-d-9-d-25-d-25-d-25-d-50-d-800/

So what you're really after is figuring out the FREQUENCY of each hand being hit. From there, you just multiply payout by frequency and divide by total combinations. Add up all the numbers and you've got your return. Beautiful!

I wrote a script a while back that'd do all the confusing math for me. Basically, I inserted standard JOB strategy frequencies into it, then I'd have variable (custom/manual) payouts for different things. I'd run the script and it'd tell me the return. This is useful if you're looking at progressives and don't know/want to change your strategy (significantly).