"Vulturing" No Longer Welcome at Harrah's Joliet
Well, on the seat of our pants, we decide to go to Harrah's Joliet tonight. Since joliet isn't anything fun and exciting for VP, I immediately head to the high limit room to look for Ultimate X. I find a couple of dollar multipliers, but only escape $5 up.
Then I go look out on the floor and start finding a quite a few multipliers on nickels. I start getting some better hits too.
For the third time this year and the third time in my life, iirc, I break Aces up and turn it into four Aces.
And then for the first time ever on Ultimate X. A dealt quad! Why couldn't this happen for the $50 wager (10-line dollars) I made to open the night?!
Then I go to buy another beer. And I think the bartender acted like I didn't want any of my $10 back from my $6.50 beer as he taps the two 5s I give him on the bar and says "thank you". After about 30 seconds, I yelled across the bar saying I wanted money back. And then immediately after that the other guy in front of the register made change for him. Maybe I jumped the gun, but I think he was hoping I meant that big of a tip? I gave him $1.50 tip cause I felt like a jerk if I was wrong. And after that, I felt like that was a bad sign.
I was right on the bad sign. G/f asks if I want to eat with her and her parents. I decline and say I want to keep looking for multipliers. I find a few more, but right before I was going to start giving up. A security guy comes to me, explaining that "playing ultimate x in a way that was it was not meant to be played is not allowed here." He gave me a warning but he said I'll be asked to leave if I did it again. I wish I would have ate with them to avoid the warning. And the funny thing was...there were many machines that were picked clean too. Maybe I was too obvious?? Or it was Tuesday and few people were playing their ~30 games that have ultimate x as an option?
Of the ~30 casinos I've done this in, this was a first for me. I haven't even read someone else being told to stop doing this on here or anywhere else. I told the security guy at Joliet that this was the first time I was ever told this, and that in St. Louis, there are often multiple people looking! So obviously not too happy, especially since Harrah's Joliet is easily the luckiest casino for this stuff in my lifetime in terms of actual vs. expected results, followed by Ameristar St. Charles. At Ameristar, I got yelled at by a black guy for basically invading his turf last year...lol And the luck at Harrah's obviously continued today as I took them for $135 in about an hour.
Has anyone else been told that they will be asked to leave if they continue looking for multipliers?
But, you know, if a lot of people are seen doing something unusual and not playing much the casino will probably start paying attention.
The not playing much is going to bother them more 'cause it's parasite territory.
They probably would be less likely to bother a known regular customer though, even someone vulturing as long as you look like you're depositing money somewhere else often enough.
I've never seen it before either, but I'm not completely surprised it would happen either.
Not much sense in reasoning with security guards. They do as they're instructed to do or occasionally act on emotion if it's a situation they're not sure about.
I managed to get a couple of em to actually get into a fist fight. I left a machine with like 8 4X (3OK) and 2 12X(full house) multipliers on a $1 denomination on it. Was fully worth the entertainment value. The police were called and everything, and I'm pretty sure both of them spent (at least) the night in jail. I went at a time where I knew there'd be the most of them hanging out in the area, and played until I got 3 of a kind pre-draw, and figured that it'd be at least 10 4X, and possibly a few of those would be 12X from hitting the full house, and that should be enough to provoke a fight w/ some of these idiots.
Quote: rxwineIt's kind of hard to look for multipliers without being obvious, unless you want to waste time sitting in front of a machine doing nothing.
But, you know, if a lot of people are seen doing something unusual and not playing much the casino will probably start paying attention.
The not playing much is going to bother them more 'cause it's parasite territory.
They probably would be less likely to bother a known regular customer though, even someone vulturing as long as you look like you're depositing money somewhere else often enough.
I've never seen it before either, but I'm not completely surprised it would happen either.
Yeah, he made it sound like if I wanted to play normally while looking as well, it was "more okay". But of course that drives down the value in looking for them.
Quote: mcallister3200Happened to me at the Rio high limit quite some time back, since then I avoid high limit. I rarely vulture, just dislike doing it, but my impression is it's watched closer in high limit. Might be best to check high limit just before heading out the door.
Not much sense in reasoning with security guards. They do as they're instructed to do or occasionally act on emotion if it's a situation they're not sure about.
Probably looking in high limit is what got me noticed in the first place too. Problem is...that's where the money is! Substitute my dealt quad tonight for the first hand I play in the high limit room; I get my first ever tax form. Maybe you're right about checking HL last. But I tend to think "early bird gets the worm".
Ugg T sorry to hear that. You're a smart likable guy and you don't seem careless, if anyone has big AP potential you do. However while reading your story, I couldn't believe you choose scrounging up some UX machines over dinner with family.Quote: tringlomane"Welcome" is a strong word for this...it's obviously never welcome by any casino. But Harrah's Joliet is willing to do something about it.
Well, on the seat of our pants, we decide to go to Harrah's Joliet tonight. Since joliet isn't anything fun and exciting for VP, I immediately head to the high limit room to look for Ultimate X. I find a couple of dollar multipliers, but only escape $5 up.
Then I go look out on the floor and start finding a quite a few multipliers on nickels. I start getting some better hits too.
For the third time this year and the third time in my life, iirc, I break Aces up and turn it into four Aces.
And then for the first time ever on Ultimate X. A dealt quad! Why couldn't this happen for the $50 wager (10-line dollars) I made to open the night?!
Then I go to buy another beer. And I think the bartender acted like I didn't want any of my $10 back from my $6.50 beer as he taps the two 5s I give him on the bar and says "thank you". After about 30 seconds, I yelled across the bar saying I wanted money back. And then immediately after that the other guy in front of the register made change for him. Maybe I jumped the gun, but I think he was hoping I meant that big of a tip? I gave him $1.50 tip cause I felt like a jerk if I was wrong. And after that, I felt like that was a bad sign.
I was right on the bad sign. G/f asks if I want to eat with her and her parents. I decline and say I want to keep looking for multipliers. I find a few more, but right before I was going to start giving up. A security guy comes to me, explaining that "playing ultimate x in a way that was it was not meant to be played is not allowed here." He gave me a warning but he said I'll be asked to leave if I did it again. I wish I would have ate with them to avoid the warning. And the funny thing was...there were many machines that were picked clean too. Maybe I was too obvious?? Or it was Tuesday and few people were playing their ~30 games that have ultimate x as an option?
Of the ~30 casinos I've done this in, this was a first for me. I haven't even read someone else being told to stop doing this on here or anywhere else. I told the security guy at Joliet that this was the first time I was ever told this, and that in St. Louis, there are often multiple people looking! So obviously not too happy, especially since Harrah's Joliet is easily the luckiest casino for this stuff in my lifetime in terms of actual vs. expected results, followed by Ameristar St. Charles. At Ameristar, I got yelled at by a black guy for basically invading his turf last year...lol And the luck at Harrah's obviously continued today as I took them for $135 in about an hour.
Has anyone else been told that they will be asked to leave if they continue looking for multipliers?
This isn't directed at you, but unfortunately it's rant time, probably beyond UX .
I argued about this a few times. Someone suggested I was paranoid. They claimed something to the affect that UX hunting was absolutely safe and we are not doing anything wrong, bla bla bla.
Something I like to say frequently to people " It's never a problem...UNTIL IT IS"
I gave examples and named a store concerning UX heat. I definitely warned about High limit UX.
Ill say it again... I know someone that was 86ed from a LV strip property. They got bored waiting for someone. AAMF, It was there first time checking UX in that store. They were well dressed and well banked. I'm not sure how blatant they were. Im sure I'm guilty of being obvious myself. But I never assume it's safe, 90% of the time I shill a bit while checking, I'm at least casual about it most of the time. I know quite a few hustlers that have been tossed as well, but because off their appearance and militant like process I'm not surprised.
It's our fault, we post pictures gloat and brag and explain every detail.
People discuss advantage plays to death... do this, do that, you get this, you get that, it's worth x. Just post the location of your safe and combination while you're at it.
It would be great if the information stayed within the community but, we forget casino employees read this forum to. Hell, we probably have casino management and dark-siders that AP part time.
People all assume its all good playing UX because the house makes money either way. That may be true, however most good AP's don't put it back. We are stealing from the ploppies who would eventually put most of it back. Some AP even decided to give it a derogatory name on top of that "Vulturing"
I have heard of AP's taking an average of $100 a day in value from one casino hunting UX. Thats $3650 per year from just one AP, that money is usually banked never to return to the casino, a ploppy never has a chance to blow back. Casinos obviously care or we would have 3% meter VP progs's all over. We would have more bonus banking slots and Drich wouldn't be designing AP proof slots(that bastard:)
Honesty I don't care about UX hunting, if I never found one again I wouldn't be upset but It's bigger than that. As I said, Casino management and consultants gather information from the forums that have AP information. They learn from us, WHAT NOT TO DO. Dark-siders gather information where plays are and how APs exploit them
Yes I get it, its fun to share AP stories with others and talk about it and get some accolades, it sucks to keep everything to yourself and a secret while bursting at the seems . I don't understand why someone needs to share every exact AP detail about what, when, where, how. Most people are part time AP's with normal jobs and perhaps they just don't care.*Shrug* what can you say?
Excuse me sir I'm going to have to ask you to cash out and leave.Quote: RogerKintI was asked to leave a casino in Laughlin for "hustling credits" while checking multipliers. Then again, I was alone, in a hoodie and under 60. This is the only time I was approached by security in a casino (well, besides when Axel pretended he was security and scared the dickens out of me). Here in So Cal they must have cracked down because there is no longer a group of smelly people sitting around watching Ultimate X.
That never gets old.
That is hilarious.Quote: sc15I used to go to a place where there'd be a bunch of people watching the ultimate X machines and going on em as soon as people leave a multiplier.
I managed to get a couple of em to actually get into a fist fight. I left a machine with like 8 4X (3OK) and 2 12X(full house) multipliers on a $1 denomination on it. Was fully worth the entertainment value. The police were called and everything, and I'm pretty sure both of them spent (at least) the night in jail. I went at a time where I knew there'd be the most of them hanging out in the area, and played until I got 3 of a kind pre-draw, and figured that it'd be at least 10 4X, and possibly a few of those would be 12X from hitting the full house, and that should be enough to provoke a fight w/ some of these idiots.
Quote: tringlomaneI tend to think "early bird gets the worm".
While there's no possible way that the various RNG's are conspiring against you, the perversity of the universe tends towards maximum.
I always seem to whiff the first 2-3 multipliers I find. I want to whiff those on nickels, not quarters, dollars, or better.
Quote: AxelWolf
I have heard of AP's taking an average of $100 a day in value from one casino hunting UX. Thats $3650 per year from just one AP, that money is usually banked never to return to the casino, a ploppy never has a chance to blow back.
It's $36500.
