9/6 JoB at Luxor denomination?
However, I was looking on the site and the 98.45% 9/5 JoB I was playing was listed as 0.25 denomination. The odd thing is that you could also play in 0.05 and 0.10 denominations, but those numbers weren't listed. I didn't scan the pay tables for those denoms, since I wasn't playing them, so I'm not sure if those denoms weren't listed because the pay tables were impacted if you used the lower betting amounts. Still, now I'm curious about whether $1 is the low denom you have to play at in the high limit room to play 9/6 JoB.
Has anyone here actually played the 9/6 JoB in the high limit room at Luxor? If so, did you have the option to play at a lower denom such as 0.25 or 0.50 without impacting the pay table or was $1 the minimum denom you had to play at to get 9/6? I'm asking because it very much affects what I play next time I go to Vegas, and possibly when I go next, and I obviously can't check it myself until I go there again. Thanks!
Quote: sabreIt's not unusual for a single machine to have different paytables for the same game at different denominations. It's also very doubtful that a single line machine in the high limit room at Luxor has options for $.25 denominations.
Came here to say this. It's more likely the dollar is the lowest denom on a machine with $2 and $5 JoB if it's in the high limit.
One: it's volunteer so people miss some things. Nickel 9/5 JoB at luxor? Really? Where? I missed this. Lol Edit: I saw you said the machines also offered nickels/dimes. The paytables were lower for those games, I'm pretty sure of it.
Two: many vpfree volunteers won't list games below 99%.
At luxor, the 9/5 JoB game they listed at quarters is a progressive and often exceeds 99%. I played it when it was above 102% in September. And saw it at high as 107%, 30 hours later with a $4800+ royal, but I couldn't get a seat. Pic of lucky sob who hit it.
I didn't check the high limit, but I assume the minimum denomination for 9/6 jacks is $1. A quarter player is better off playing the 9/5 progressive before bounceback considerations.
Yeah the progressive was ~ $1,100 when I was playing it so it must have been hit very recently if it can get up that far. Wow! I guess I don't feel too bad about playing that 9/5 JoB then...was wondering if the progressive helped the ER enough that it'd be close to full pay. Sounds like it's roughly equivalent, especially if the progressive is that high.
Kind of a bummer I busted out, but only had $100 to spare for a bankroll, so it was a foregone conclusion according to VPW. Risk of ruin was about 80% according to VPW with that bankroll and denom...not a good combination. Interesting thing is I was doing a pretty good job of breaking even until my third round of play the following morning on one machine. I just couldn't hit a single flush, FH, 4 of a kind, etc. on that damn thing. Not sure if it was just really bad luck with the RNG or something else but I won't be touching that one again. I'll stick to the 9/5 progressive JoB though since I do like Luxor a lot and that bank of 10 machines sounds like the best bet in the casino. Hopefully I'll be able to bring a bigger bankroll next time.
vpFREE2.com just tries to list the best games at each casino, not all games. So if the 5c and 10c games have really low paytables on a machine that has good 25c paytables, the 5c and 10c games would not be shown. You know you can ask the vpFREE2 site owner general questions about the site by using the Contact Us link there.Quote: scubatim84However, I was looking on the site and the 98.45% 9/5 JoB I was playing was listed as 0.25 denomination. The odd thing is that you could also play in 0.05 and 0.10 denominations, but those numbers weren't listed.
Quote: tes3355vpFREE2.com just tries to list the best games at each casino, not all games. So if the 5c and 10c games have really low paytables on a machine that has good 25c paytables, the 5c and 10c games would not be shown. You know you can ask the vpFREE2 site owner general questions about the site by using the Contact Us link there.
I know Tess, I just wanted specific experience related to Luxor since that's what my question was regarding, and the site owner isn't going to be able to answer that unless they were at the Luxor recently.
The more interesting question I'm now wondering though is if you have an insufficient bankroll for a specific denom, for example if $100 is all you want to gamble with, would full pay at 0.25 denom be better or would you be better off with something that has a poorer ER but less variance (IE maybe 10 or 50 play at say 0.01 or 0.05). The goal is to play VP and ideally get enough coin in that perhaps I would get some comps down the road...pretty flexible as far as type of game (I don't care if it's JoB, DDB, DW, etc.) and how many plays per hand but I'm mainly interested in avoiding ruin since I don't want to bust out after 30 minutes and not be able to play for the rest of the time.
Does anyone have a mathematical formula they use to determine what denom to play at? For example do you try to have 100x 1 hand of play, etc.? Or is the best play to just stick to full pay regardless of bankroll for the long term?
I have found the opposite to be true. I see lots of 7/5 BP (98.01%) and even lower paytables being listed even though they couldn't be considered "playable" with slot club benefits, etc. included. But if you submitted an update for a game you consider playable and it wasn't done, I hope you will let the site owner know about it. Maybe there's a volunteer updater that doesn't understand what to do.Quote: tringlomaneTwo: many vpfree volunteers won't list games below 99%.
Quote: scubatim84
Does anyone have a mathematical formula they use to determine what denom to play at?
Yes. The general consensus is that you need 4-5x Royal to play VP.
At 0.25, a royal is $1000, so to play that you need a bankroll of $4000 to $5000.
To play at $1 level, your bankroll needs to be $16000-$20000.
Personally, I would double that bankroll requirement.
Quote: djatcGotta play a lot to get strip property comps. What do you plan on coining in?
I don't just play in Vegas, I go to Reno a lot too.
Goal is to play the entire trip while maximizing coin in for possible comps...and not with a $4,000 - $20,000 bankroll. If that's the mathematical formula then it was based on sheer insanity. I would never consider gambling even close to 20K on a trip to Reno or Vegas.
Primary goal I suppose would just be to play the entire time and minimize loss since that's mainly why I play VP vs. other games since I like skill-based card games in general.
My next trip is to Reno so maybe the question is better directed towards maximizing coin in for playing there. TBH Vegas room rates so far in my experience have been substantially cheaper than Reno, so the comps ironically aren't really necessary for LV, especially with MyVegas factored in since I don't pay for shows anymore.
Quote: scubatim84
The more interesting question I'm now wondering though is if you have an insufficient bankroll for a specific denom, for example if $100 is all you want to gamble with, would full pay at 0.25 denom be better or would you be better off with something that has a poorer ER but less variance (IE maybe 10 or 50 play at say 0.01 or 0.05). The goal is to play VP and ideally get enough coin in that perhaps I would get some comps down the road...pretty flexible as far as type of game (I don't care if it's JoB, DDB, DW, etc.) and how many plays per hand but I'm mainly interested in avoiding ruin since I don't want to bust out after 30 minutes and not be able to play for the rest of the time.
Does anyone have a mathematical formula they use to determine what denom to play at? For example do you try to have 100x 1 hand of play, etc.? Or is the best play to just stick to full pay regardless of bankroll for the long term?
You'll get the most coin-in, long-term, by playing the best possible paytable you can play. If you're looking to get more coin-in with a particular session, but you don't have a specific amount, your best bet is still to play the best paytable, long-term. If you have a short-term amount of coin you want to get through, then you might have a better chance at lower denominations and a worse paytable, to an extent.
http://www.beatingbonuses.com/simulator.htm
The top is $100 on quarters and the bottom is $100 on nickels.
FOR EXAMPLE:
9/6 Jacks or Better
Starting Bankroll: 80 Units
Desired # of Hands: 1,000
Coin-In: $1,250
Simulations: 100,000
RoR: 28.732% & 28.970
9/5 Jacks or Better
Starting Bankroll: 400 UNITS
Desired # of Hands: 5000
Coin-In: $1,250
Simulations: 50,000
RoR: 5.67% & 5.77%
EDIT:
7/5 Jacks or Better on Nickels for the Heck of it:
Starting Bankroll: 400 UNITS
Desired # of Hands: 5000
Coin-In: $1,250
Simulations: 50,000
RoR: 22.79% & 22.37%
Quote: pokerfaceYes. The general consensus is that you need 4-5x Royal to play VP.
I play 0.25 denom VP frequently and I have much less than a $ 4000 bankroll. If I lose the amount I am comfortable losing, then I am done for the day. I do enjoy playing the game, and all in all in the long run, I think it is an inexpensive form of entertainment.
Quote: JohnnyQI play 0.25 denom VP frequently and I have much less than a $ 4000 bankroll. If I lose the amount I am comfortable losing, then I am done for the day. I do enjoy playing the game, and all in all in the long run, I think it is an inexpensive form of entertainment.
This. The most I've brought for a bankroll was $300. Anything higher than that and I wouldn't be 100% comfortably losing all of it, and given that VP is still gambling, that's a non starter for me with a higher bankroll.
Quote: Mission146You'll get the most coin-in, long-term, by playing the best possible paytable you can play. If you're looking to get more coin-in with a particular session, but you don't have a specific amount, your best bet is still to play the best paytable, long-term. If you have a short-term amount of coin you want to get through, then you might have a better chance at lower denominations and a worse paytable, to an extent.
http://www.beatingbonuses.com/simulator.htm
The top is $100 on quarters and the bottom is $100 on nickels.
FOR EXAMPLE:
9/6 Jacks or Better
Starting Bankroll: 80 Units
Desired # of Hands: 1,000
Coin-In: $1,250
Simulations: 100,000
RoR: 28.732% & 28.970
9/5 Jacks or Better
Starting Bankroll: 400 UNITS
Desired # of Hands: 5000
Coin-In: $1,250
Simulations: 50,000
RoR: 5.67% & 5.77%
EDIT:
7/5 Jacks or Better on Nickels for the Heck of it:
Starting Bankroll: 400 UNITS
Desired # of Hands: 5000
Coin-In: $1,250
Simulations: 50,000
RoR: 22.79% & 22.37%
Wow, that's a pretty stark contrast. So if my typical Reno haunt is Peppermill, and according to http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/peppermill-hotel-casino the best pay table outside BSP JOB (which doesn't sound like a game I'd want to try) is 99.73% DW44, then I'm better off playing that one even if I did have to play it at a higher denom with the same bankroll vs say 99.54% JOB at a lower denom. Interesting...thanks for pointing that out, great to know!
Quote: scubatim84
Wow, that's a pretty stark contrast. So if my typical Reno haunt is Peppermill, and according to http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/peppermill-hotel-casino the best pay table outside BSP JOB (which doesn't sound like a game I'd want to try) is 99.73% DW44, then I'm better off playing that one even if I did have to play it at a higher denom with the same bankroll vs say 99.54% JOB at a lower denom. Interesting...thanks for pointing that out, great to know!
With respect to what? Long-Term, and assuming Optimal Strategy, you're always better off to play the best returning game. If you want x$ to last x# of hands (or total $$$ bet) you often have a lower RoR at a worse paytable and lower denomination.
Quote: Mission146With respect to what? Long-Term, and assuming Optimal Strategy, you're always better off to play the best returning game. If you want x$ to last x# of hands (or total $$$ bet) you often have a lower RoR at a worse paytable and lower denomination.
Long term. The minimum denom for 99.73% DW44 at peppermill is only 5 cents, and it's SP, so I have options on how much to bet. Even for Luxor, with only a $1,100 progressive the 9/5 JoB I played is about 99.7%, so looking at long term over a lifetime Ill lose less money and gain more coin in by doing that according to the numbers.
Quote: tes3355I have found the opposite to be true. I see lots of 7/5 BP (98.01%) and even lower paytables being listed even though they couldn't be considered "playable" with slot club benefits, etc. included. But if you submitted an update for a game you consider playable and it wasn't done, I hope you will let the site owner know about it. Maybe there's a volunteer updater that doesn't understand what to do.
Nah, all my updates generally get included, and more people are starting to include some sub 99% games, especially on the Vegas Strip. I just get irked at the ones that don't report anything below 99% because 98.91% Deuces Wild and 9/6 DDB (the average person's favorite game at 98.98%) gets shutout a lot in these cases. I usually cutoff at 98.8% (98% for Vegas Strip), and will include progressives with reasonable chances to go above 99%.
Quote: scubatim84Long term. The minimum denom for 99.73% DW44 at peppermill is only 5 cents, and it's SP, so I have options on how much to bet. Even for Luxor, with only a $1,100 progressive the 9/5 JoB I played is about 99.7%, so looking at long term over a lifetime Ill lose less money and gain more coin in by doing that according to the numbers.
9/5 JoB w/$1100 is only 98.65%. When I got to play on the game when the meter was $2600, I was trying to estimate the meter rate. The progressive was going up about 90c a minute with 8 people total, and I was playing pretty slowly. I was thinking the meter was roughly 1% of coin-in. Maybe 0.75%. I would doubt it was 0.5%, people playing the games weren't pros and not playing very quickly.
Quote: tringlomane9/5 JoB w/$1100 is only 98.65%. When I got to play on the game when the meter was $2600, I was trying to estimate the meter rate. The progressive was going up about 90c a minute with 8 people total, and I was playing pretty slowly. I was thinking the meter was roughly 1% of coin-in. Maybe 0.75%. I would doubt it was 0.5%, people playing the games weren't pros and not playing very quickly.
How did you calculate 98.65%? I checked Wizard of Odd's calculator https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/ by using Standard Video Poker, JoB as settings and changing RF payout to 4400 coins to account for $1100 progressive. Gives me 99.74%.
Quote: scubatim84How did you calculate 98.65%? I checked Wizard of Odd's calculator https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/ by using Standard Video Poker, JoB as settings and changing RF payout to 4400 coins to account for $1100 progressive. Gives me 99.74%.
Easy way to remeber progressives
4000 extra coins = 2%
2000 1%
400 0.1%
And everything in between.
$1100 = 4400 coins
Base 9/5 jacks = 98.45%
So take the extra 400 coins convert to 0.1%
Add to base game = 98.55%
Its not precise but its close enough to determine a play. You probably didn't change the calculator to 9/5 and left it 9/6 for a base game of 99.54%
Quote: scubatim84How did you calculate 98.65%? I checked Wizard of Odd's calculator https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/analyzer/ by using Standard Video Poker, JoB as settings and changing RF payout to 4400 coins to account for $1100 progressive. Gives me 99.74%.
The analyzer assumes a 9/6 JoB paytable by default. You need to change the flush from 30 to 25 coins along with the 4400 coin Royal.
Quote: tringlomaneThe analyzer assumes a 9/6 JoB paytable by default. You need to change the flush from 30 to 25 coins along with the 4400 coin Royal.
Can't believe I forgot to change that. Yeah it looks much more bleak...have to be $1,500 progressive minimum just to be equivalent to normal 9/6 JoB.
OK, so you're irked with players who don't report sub-99% video poker to vpFREE2. But I think you'll see more and more sub-99% games reported as the better paytables get downgraded. It'll take time.Quote: tringlomaneNah, all my updates generally get included, and more people are starting to include some sub 99% games, especially on the Vegas Strip. I just get irked at the ones that don't report anything below 99% because 98.91% Deuces Wild and 9/6 DDB (the average person's favorite game at 98.98%) gets shutout a lot in these cases. I usually cutoff at 98.8% (98% for Vegas Strip), and will include progressives with reasonable chances to go above 99%.
9/6 DDB is probably the most popular game with players who play for entertainment, but from reading the verbiage on the site, it appears that vpFREE2 is geared to AP's. When there are higher ER/lower variance games available, I doubt that many who play mainly for profit would touch 9/6 DDB. (The exception would be playing for a loss rebate when variance is desirable.)
Having said that, I find myself playing more and more 98.91% Ugly Ducks in casinos with juicy promos and few games with a much better ER.
I have been more than irked with that site from day one when it was skips page. Talk about killing the golden goose(do they still have the original thread?) It was the beginning to the end of the best games, promotions for slots and VP.Quote: tes3355OK, so you're irked with players who don't report sub-99% video poker to vpFREE2.
Eliot Aka The Stallion (RIP) had a serious loose lip problem. I personally blame him for killing Kansas City. It was full of 103% All American along with good promotions. I guess It's nice to use OPI, especially when you don't have any skin in the game.
Quote: AxelWolfI have been more than irked with that site from day one when it was skips page. Talk about killing the golden goose(do they still have the original thread?) It was the beginning to the end of the best games, promotions for slots and VP.
Eliot Aka The Stallion (RIP) had a serious loose lip problem. I personally blame him for killing Kansas City. It was full of 103% All American along with good promotions. I guess It's nice to use OPI, especially when you don't have any skin in the game.
Yeah the site is nice but I'm noticing the best games reported, in conjunction with comps, nowadays are still close to 100% if not < 100%. Only FPDW I see are in 5 or 25 cent denominations. Seems like breaking even is the best you can hope for now...
Bounceback, promotions and multipliers can add a lot but probably not much to high return games like FPDW.Quote: scubatim84Yeah the site is nice but I'm noticing the best games reported, in conjunction with comps, nowadays are still close to 100% if not < 100%. Only FPDW I see are in 5 or 25 cent denominations. Seems like breaking even is the best you can hope for now...
Quote: tes3355Bounceback, promotions and multipliers can add a lot but probably not much to high return games like FPDW.
Yeah I'm going to Reno in a couple weeks and my plan is to hit FPDW at Atlantis on the 26th since that's a 4X multiplier day for them then switch to Peppermill on 28/29 since that's a 6X multiplier day for PM. I figure I can't go wrong doing that lol.
They always had good pay tables fair comps and promotions. Even the IGT BJ were good.
Quote: AxelWolfDoes pepermill still have the $100 thing? Can't remember if it was a loss rebate or a flat $100 for x coin in. That used to be my favorite buffet. I have always like that casino it's a nice atmosphere and has some style.
Not sure, I've never heard of that although I haven't looked into AP until after my last trip to Peppermill, so wouldn't have been on the look out for stuff like that since I don't like buffets. I definitely like Peppermill the most out of all the casinos in Reno. Not sure why everyone thinks their comps are terrible...seems like I'm always getting free play and/or BOGO drink coupons just for having a pulse and a player's card.
Quote: AxelWolfReally bad comps? I haven't played in like 7 years and thed I still get free room and food offers evry few month's. Im not a big buffet fan however they had everything we liked and it was goid quality imo. Price is right. Or it was anyways.
Yeah that sounds like Peppermill with the comps. I'll comment back on what the comp rate ended up being...vpfree2.com has pretty fragmented info on their comp system because it sounds like it shifts based on the player.
