Stack 'Em Poker

I saw a couple new video poker games at Harrah's yesterday. The first one I'll bring up is Stack 'Em Poker. The gist is that the player can bet up to ten hands, five vertical and five horizontal. The horizontal hands play like five-play video poker. The vertical hands pay according to whatever random cards you get after discarding.

I also took this video.



This one would be a difficult analysis, especially if considering the effect of removal on missing cards from the vertical hands. I'm hoping that IGT will just give me their figures on it.

However, if any of the brilliant minds on the forum want to take a crack at it, by all means, have at it.

The other game is saw was Multi-win Draw Poker, but let's save that discussion for a future thread.

I watched the video, very weird game, strategy horizontal and total luck flop on the verticles.
On the other hand, people seem to like games with strategy and total luck elements in one game.

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I believe this is the game I saw at Red Rock. It was over in the slot area between the food court Starbuck's and the keno lounge. This was 1-2 months ago though. I wasn't too excited about it. The min bet was high to play both ways and the poker pay tables were pretty bad. Also, the slot element of randomness and no skill didn't appeal to me.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

No players card? tsk tsk.

I might have used one, but I didn't bring it, and it wasn't worth standing in line for.

However, at the risk of hijacking the thread, Caesars properties put a big emphasis on "average daily theoretical (casino) win" from a player. If I just bet $20 on this game to learn it, then that would lower my average win per day. The way many reward programs work, it is better to not play at all than play a little bit.

Am I reading this correct that max bet is 90 credits ($90)?

Quote: Boz

Am I reading this correct that max bet is 90 credits ($90)?

How did you read that? It should be 50 credits.

Quote: Wizard

How did you read that? It should be 50 credits.

It says 50 credits on the page. You wrote "suited for of a kind" a couple of times.

According to the media sheet, max payback for any variant is 98.9%. I'm annoyed IGT has gone this route with almost every new release in the past 2 or so years. Let casinos decide if they want to offer better than 99% "gimmick" games.

Stack 'em Poker Media Sheet

Seems tricky. Like if you had a 3X multiplier it might be better to not hold the T spades like you did with the K spades and instead discard that for a chance at a 3X vertical win in that column...

Quote: BTLWI

Seems tricky. Like if you had a 3X multiplier it might be better to not hold the T spades like you did with the K spades and instead discard that for a chance at a 3X vertical win in that column...

If they told you ahead of time whether you're going to get a multiplier, like UX does, maybe so, but the video seems to show that you don't get a multiplier indication until you push "draw", so I would think basic strategy has to be your best play always. I could be wrong.

Quote: beachbumbabs

If they told you ahead of time whether you're going to get a multiplier, like UX does, maybe so, but the video seems to show that you don't get a multiplier indication until you push "draw", so I would think basic strategy has to be your best play always. I could be wrong.

No, you're right. I had thought it showed the multiplier before the draw.

Quote: BTLWI

Seems tricky. Like if you had a 3X multiplier it might be better to not hold the T spades like you did with the K spades and instead discard that for a chance at a 3X vertical win in that column...

You don't know if you're getting the multiplier until have you commit to what cards you're discarding.

To start my analysis of the game (not to say I'll finish it), here are my infinite deck combinations for stud poker. Before somebody says it, I realize there are always five cards removed from each deck. For now, I'm just trying to get an estimate of the return assuming no effect of removal.

Hand	Pays	Permutations	Probability	Return
Royal flush	800	480	0.000001	0.001010
Five of a kind	800	13,312	0.000035	0.028010
Straight flush	50	4,320	0.000011	0.000568
Suited four of a kind	400	12,480	0.000033	0.013130
Four of a kind	50	786,240	0.002068	0.103397
Full house	12	1,597,440	0.004202	0.050418
Flush	10	1,470,960	0.003869	0.038689
Straight	8	1,224,000	0.003219	0.025755
Three of a kind	5	17,503,200	0.046036	0.230182
Two pair	2	26,254,800	0.069055	0.138109
Sixes or Better	1	121,176,000	0.318713	0.318713
Nothing	0	210,160,800	0.552758	0.000000
Total		380,204,032	1.000000	0.947981

Quote: Wizard

To start my analysis of the game (not to say I'll finish it), here are my infinite deck combinations for stud poker. Before somebody says it, I realize there are always five cards removed from each deck. For now, I'm just trying to get an estimate of the return assuming no effect of removal.

You beat me to it...I was thinking about trying to do the non-removal version myself. But it would have probably taken me a lot longer than you to do that. Also I would expect "card removal" to slightly hurt the return unless if favorable card removal helps significantly on the one card draws.

I hope the multipliers make up for that 5%+ hole...im not totally convinced yet. Difficult analysis indeed. Which again makes me mad at IGT for not possibly offering 99%+ on this. Errors will be more prevalent in this game.

One small example, I am pretty sure it's always better to hold all 3 to a Royal vs. 4 to a flush in a game that pays 6 for 1 (or less) on a flush. In 9/6/4 (or 5) double bonus, standard strategy says you should hold 4 to a flush over an AHT royal draw (H=high card). But in this game you get 2 vertical hands with an avg. 2.25X multiplier drawing two versus 1 hand with an avg. 3X multiplier drawing one, which I assume pushes the royal draw over the top.