Sands Bethlehem Squashes VP Advantage Play

Evidently, some sharp video poker players found an opportunity in this casino. But the play may not be totally squashed yet. The Wizard is quoted in the article.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-sands-bethlehem-asian-bus-changes-20140412,0,1618845.story

Quote: mickeycrimm

Evidently, some sharp video poker players found an opportunity in this casino. But the play may not be totally squashed yet. The Wizard is quoted in the article.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-sands-bethlehem-asian-bus-changes-20140412,0,1618845.story

I would have to argue the fact that they had to be sharp VP players. They were indeed creative and seen a good opportunity and got the money * My hats off to them.

This all sounds interesting(I love it). $34 seems a bit high for the effort involved (they buyers should have not competed, worked together, coordinated , and kept the prices low to $25)

Whats the average slot hold? Now @ $34, If you could get and run 60 a day, I can see someone building up a "EZ"(sounds like lots hustling your ass off) no-low risk Bankroll fairly quickly.

How does this work as far as the free play, do you get a slot ticket when you buy the bus ticket? Do you have to go to the booth and load it up on a card?

The first guy on this gig probably made a killing and got them for much less the $34 I can imagine someone was making AT LEAST $600 a day in free money.

sounds fun, I'm Jealous.


More information on this?

Quote: AxelWolf

I would have to argue the fact that they had to be sharp VP players. They were indeed creative and seen a good opportunity and got the money * My hats off to them.

This all sounds interesting(I love it). $34 seems a bit high for the effort involved (they buyers should have not competed, worked together, coordinated , and kept the prices low to $25)

Whats the average slot hold? Now @ $34, If you could get and run 60 a day, I can see someone building up a "EZ"(sounds like lots hustling your ass off) no-low risk Bankroll fairly quickly.

How does this work as far as the free play, do you get a slot ticket when you buy the bus ticket? Do you have to go to the booth and load it up on a card?

The first guy on this gig probably made a killing and got them for much less the $34 I can imagine someone was making AT LEAST $600 a day in free money.

sounds fun, I'm Jealous. More information on this?

When the video poker was eligible for the freeplay the hustlers were paying $40 a piece for the $45 freeplay cards. And according to the original story there were 98% video poker games. Once the video pokers were disqualified the price dropped to $30. I think the hustlers probably didn't know much about video line games or three reel slots at first. But once they figured it out competition drove the price up to $34. It's still a pretty good deal at that price, a 24% add on and you can probably find some low variance 90% slots in the place.

The original article said Sands execs knew what was going on but the buses carrying the Asians out of New York were lucrative to the point that they overlooked the black market going on and passed out cards that needed no pin numbers to the Asians.

It was the poor, jobless, homeless Asians that sold the freeplay cards. They had to pay $15 for the day trip, and were extorted by the bus drivers for a $5 tip on the return trip....or else the drivers might not let them on the bus on future trips. These Asians were doing this 7 days a week. It was a net earn to them of $20 a day to spend a couple of hours on the bus and probably 5 hours in Bethlehem. When the price dropped to $30 I imagine a lot of them thought it was no longer worth the effort. But with the price back up to $34 probably some of them jumped back in the game. And maybe the bus drivers took a cut on their tips too in order to keep the game going.

Interesting stuff.

deleted

Aye, that is the key. If you are going to be there anyway even if its just for the return trip home on the bus, these promos have more value. Also bus arrivals are often given a buffet or deli comp.

The casinos know some of those bus riders are broke but they also know that sitting next to some homeless dude on the bus is an oriental carrying thousands upon thousands of dollars. Remember when Atlantic City had that low value table of Baccarat ALL go to maximum bets? Most of those players had that money with them in cash. They didn't have to work their way up to those bet with winnings or anything. They saw it was an opportunity, not entertainment... so they upped it to five thousand dollars each hand and
still went home by bus.

The cards may have been created and distributed with a view to the "average dumb player" but sharpies exist and if its a greater value to a sharpie, so be it. If its of no value to a sharpie, then its still of value to the casino as an ordinary promotional gimmick to the average ploppy.

Giving away cards, the word 'freeplay' ... all this stuff helps the casino rope in more players. The words "free" never hurt.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I would say that most places DO allow free play on VP and not the opposite. And I wouldn't sell a $45 card that in the long hall nets me 98% or $44.10 for $40 considering I have to hang out there anyway.

Yes, but I don't think you can accuse 90% of the public of being able to figure that out. Here's the link to the original story. I picked this story up in Jean Scott's blog.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/bethlehem/mc-sands-bethlehem-asian-bus-20140329,0,1618845,full.story.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Yes, but I don't think you can accuse 90% of the public of being able to figure that out. Here's the link to the original story. I picked this story up in Jean Scott's blog.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/bethlehem/mc-sands-bethlehem-asian-bus-20140329,0,1618845,full.story.

I can't figure out why the link won't work. But you can click on the news tab, then investigations, then scoll down until you find "Asians at Sands Bethlehem casino 'ride bus to live'.

On the slot forums, they refer to them as Asian heaters because they just stand around the machines and try to sell their food coupons.

Good article.

Weak play. In Detroit they used to give $35 for $15 bus ticket or more sometimes with promos. It was good to waste a day and to go gamble and/or do stuff in Detroit. I used to go up to Detroit, cash the freeplay, and go see the symphony (within walking distance of casino). Surprised more people didn't take advantage of it -- New Yorkers, and especially Asian New Yorkers, are incredibly sharp.

There are some 99% video poker games at Harrah's Rincon where it is possible to "buy" the free play coupons that regular players get weekly or even daily. The question is: how would you price the free play vouchers -- both buy and sell prices -- and would the "regulars" even consider selling?

Is that first image in the article a digital Sic Bo table?

I'd cheerfully sell at 90% face value. I have no interest in VP and would rather just dump it into a higher denom slot and hope to get lucky than to grind it out.

Quote: AlanMendelson

There are some 99% video poker games at Harrah's Rincon where it is possible to "buy" the free play coupons that regular players get weekly or even daily. The question is: how would you price the free play vouchers -- both buy and sell prices -- and would the "regulars" even consider selling?

Based on a small sample, CET players tend to be chicken shit and paranoid.

Quote: Venthus

Is that first image in the article a digital Sic Bo table?

I'd cheerfully sell at 90% face value. I have no interest in VP and would rather just dump it into a higher denom slot and hope to get lucky than to grind it out.

Hmmm...... unless you had a very large amount it would not be worth the time to buy free play @ 90% the risk of something going wrong and the time and effort wouldn't be worth it. God bless you if you can get someone to pay 90%. If I didn't have to go to the casino, I would sell all my free play for 90% as well.

Quote: Venthus

Is that first image in the article a digital Sic Bo table?

Looks like it but there is now some Oriental game that is supplanting Sic Bo.

For them to be giving out money without you having to step a foot inside the casino is pretty laughable.

15 years ago my mom used to run casino bus trips in Iowa. It was $400 to rent the bus + a driver for a day. The bus held 42 people (so 40 paying + me and her). She charged $10 per person - that paid for the bus. The casino gave her $20 cash per person (her profit) and the casino gave each person a free $30 reward play on their players card + free buffet in exchange for 4 hours of guaranteed gambling. It was all tracked on your players card. Before we even entered the casino a log with everyone's name and player card number had to be created to give to the casino employee. You had to use your card + pin, had to use your card + ID at the buffet, etc... They always reminded you to "use your players card" so they could keep track of what everyone on the bus was "worth".

This was back in the mid 90's and there was still player accountability going on. I'm sure if enough bus trips produced unprofitable players they would have either reduced the payouts to my mom or reduced the rewards to the players.

I was actually someone who rode the Asian bus to the sands for awhile so if you have any questions you can ask me.

Mickey, the host tip was $3, not five and it was not for the bus driver. The host worked solely on tips. 3 bucks times 60 seats made them 180 bucks a day. They rode both there and back so that was their days work. Also, the hosts were very loyal to those who rode regularly. They would hold your seat if you were late, call you if you didn't make it, refund your ticket if they found someone else that day (many tickets were sold the day prior to those on the bus who knew they were returning the next day).

The host/hostess would check the bus terminal to make certain no one was left behind. Generally they earned their money.

The $40 price for the tickets was high because most of the leg work was done by the hustlers who rode a bus 4 hours round trip and had a five hour layover.

The freeplay was on players cards which were pre-loaded and were anonymous. They said something like "Preferred customer" or something innocuous. Otherwise they were no different than a regular players card. They were like cash in that you didn't need a pin for those so selling them was easy.

I never sold mine as the free-play was also available on video blackjack which was more lucrative than video poker. That's because when you bet five bucks if you won or pushed, you were handed back your initial bet just like the regular game. So five dollars in free play on a push turned into five dollars cashable.

Although I never won 9 straight (forty five dollars at five dollars a hand) I came close turning my $45 free-play into 80 bucks. The best scenario obviously would have been ninety. Also, you had the option of betting higher and I could have played just one hand of $45. If I won that would be a $90 win but I never chose the all or nothing route.

Hope all this was helpful