Decision free VP

Would it be the end of the world if casinos just set the machines to autohold decent paying machines? It would seem the speed of play would make up for mistakes people made by a little. Has any casino ever tried basically turning VP machines into slot machines? Plus it would bump their holds up making their slots look better without having to pay independent contractors to bang buttons all day. The VP players are already labeled second class citizens with the players club, so why not?

Well, in the U1 machines that the Wiz has been working on for keno, they offer "auto-hold" for a 0.5-1% fee depending on the amount bet.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/keno/u1/

But for video poker, many, many players despise autohold, including myself. Because at that point, playing a video slot is much more entertaining, imo.

I recall reading some article (and I don't remember if it was by Dancer or Grochowski) where the author said that sometimes auto hold VP games actually make a mistake by a small percentage in the return.

Besides there are some "correct holds" that players don't like to make. Example: dealt KK445 in double double bonus. While the correct hold is both pairs, I know many players who will hold only the paying pair for a shot at quads.

Quote: tringlomane

Well, in the U1 machines that the Wiz has been working on for keno, they offer "auto-hold" for a 0.5-1% fee depending on the amount bet.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/keno/u1/

But for video poker, many, many players despise autohold, including myself. Because at that point, playing a video slot is much more entertaining, imo.

I like the idea being presented, but they would kill the competition out there starting slots at 92% instead of 90%. With the slots, the games are better when the big hits are easily identifiable and communicable in a conversation. Seeing the Redneck Reels, I would wish the Mattress bonus could pay over 100X instead of 50X.


What confuses me why the autohold can't be perfect strategy or set with options. The important thing about it is the player needs to have the confidence there isn't a ruse to trick someone into a worse play or autoholds wouldn't be so taboo. If the VP hold strategy was free, it would be better to use it for marketing IMO.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I recall reading some article (and I don't remember if it was by Dancer or Grochowski) where the author said that sometimes auto hold VP games actually make a mistake by a small percentage in the return.

Besides there are some "correct holds" that players don't like to make. Example: dealt KK445 in double double bonus. While the correct hold is both pairs, I know many players who will hold only the paying pair for a shot at quads.

I know I hate reading all these things then having difficulty remembering where, then people act like you're just making it up or a loon.
I wonder why it would make mistakes if not intentional. Perhaps some kind of psychology is involved in the decision where a player would think the game was screwing them, then just holding what they would not think to argue about.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I recall reading some article (and I don't remember if it was by Dancer or Grochowski) where the author said that sometimes auto hold VP games actually make a mistake by a small percentage in the return.

Besides there are some "correct holds" that players don't like to make. Example: dealt KK445 in double double bonus. While the correct hold is both pairs, I know many players who will hold only the paying pair for a shot at quads.

I know I hate reading all these things then having difficulty remembering where, then people act like you're just making it up or a loon.
I wonder why it would make mistakes if not intentional. Perhaps some kind of psychology is involved in the decision where a player would think the game was screwing them, then just holding what they would not think to argue about.

I think it was Dancer who noted that in Dream Card poker the "dream card" auto select can be wrong or misleading, sometimes pulling a flush card when the flush card is not the correct hold.

But yeah, I'm either lying or hallucinating and someone will bring up the 18 yos in a row...

Quote: AlanMendelson

I think it was Dancer who noted that in Dream Card poker the "dream card" auto select can be wrong or misleading, sometimes pulling a flush card when the flush card is not the correct hold.

But yeah, I'm either lying or hallucinating and someone will bring up the 18 yos in a row...

The play money game at Videopoker.com has been occasionally incorrect; also the play money version of Winning Streak Poker has bugs in it. Bob Dancer said that real money Dream Card machines have been accurate in his experience though. But the example below from videopoker.com shows that the game has the possibility of being misprogrammed. And also, if a card that gives the same EV but can also tempt you with an alternative play, it will pick that one. For example, give a Royal card when it's correct to hold four to a regular flush.

Quote: WOO page on Dream Card

There has been some debate about whether the best card is offered to the player when he gets the Dream Card. In his article A Look at DreamCard --- Part II of II , Bob Dancer says, "I've played the game for many hours and I've never seen a case where the DC isn't perfect --- or at least tied for being the best. " However, at VideoPoker.com, sometimes the advice is incorrect. As an example, the following is a screenshot from the 9/6 jacks game at videopoker.com.

And as for the Class II auto hold games not being accurate, it's mainly because it really doesn't matter, and the machine is designed to always hold at least one card, so the player can easily see the auto-hold feature is completed. Or at least these are the reasons why I think the autohold isn't always 100% accurate. It's usually pretty accurate except for garbage hands.

Quote: tringlomane

Bob Dancer said that real money Dream Card machines have been accurate in his experience though.

There is one lingering glitch on real-money Dream Card machines, which Bob addressed in one of the radio shows, and I have personally encountered it myself. In DDB (and presumably BP, DB, and TDB too, but my experience was on DDB), if the first four cards are something like 3/5/7/10 spanning three or four suits, and the Dream Card is awarded, it should pair the 3 but instead it pairs the 10. Fortunately you can correct it by changing the Dream Card before finishing the hand.

I think the Flash applet on VideoPoker.com was corrected shortly after Wizard wrote about its errors. In fact, I think it now operates perfectly, whereas the real-money version still has a glitch! However, the VP.com version doesn't always try to trick you like the real-money version does.

Quote: JB

There is one lingering glitch on real-money Dream Card machines, which Bob addressed in one of the radio shows, and I have personally encountered it myself. In DDB (and presumably BP, DB, and TDB too, but my experience was on DDB), if the first four cards are something like 3/5/7/10 spanning three or four suits, and the Dream Card is awarded, it should pair the 3 but instead it pairs the 5, 7, or 10. Fortunately you can correct it by changing the Dream Card before finishing the hand.

Yeah, I thought I heard that too, but I couldn't back that up with a googled statement. Thanks for the correction.

Has that bug been attempted to be fixed on machines at all? It's definitely BS, imo.

Quote: tringlomane

Has that bug been attempted to be fixed on machines at all? It's definitely BS, imo.

I don't know. I don't think casinos like offering Dream Card because the increased frequency of handpays makes it look like a loser for the casino. They had it at Foxwoods very briefly a few years ago and then it quickly vanished. VP.com indicates less than 100 Dream Card machines across the country.

Wouldn't they want that appearance though? They probably compared the number of handpays on those machine vs. normal 3/5 play and they think to themselves, "This machine must be costing us money!" haha

And/or people just don't really like Dream Card. St. Louis four casinos has one unit total, a Spin Poker version, that pays ~97% at the nickel level at least. The same casino also offers 8/5 Bonus with Dream Card on their "Five Star Poker" multigame units at the whopping $10 level...$100 per hand. That's crazy, imo. :) I need to let VPFree know that eventually; it's technically 99%+...haha