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Quote: 100xOdds

Why don't you believe him?

Look, I want to be clear. I believe Darkoz does what he says. He has demonstrated sufficient knowledge about what he talks about and I have seen no major contradictions. I believe he has "employeee" that make decent money and it sound like he treats them fairly. That said, I feel like there was some cherry-picking going on in reference to the numbers $400 an hour, and $20,000 a week. While I believe there are certainly $400 hours and even $20,000 weeks, I just don't believe these are the norm or average.

Last month, November 2021, I made over 44k playing blackjack and card counting. Most of that was a specialized side bet play that didn't last long. So as a month that 44k was my second best month ever and only the second time I have had a month of more than 25k. So if I say I make 44k a month is that a lie? I made 44k in a month. (actually the most recent month I played). But it is far from normal or average.

That is what I feel like Darkoz did to some extent. maybe I am wrong. Maybe he has employees making a million dollars a year (20k x 50 weeks).

Anyway, that is as far as I want to go. Not calling anyone a liar. or doubting that Darkoz is a successful AP doing what he claims. I just feel like there is some dishonesty in some of those numbers.

Quote: kewlj

Quote: 100xOdds

Why don't you believe him?

That said, I feel like there was some cherry-picking going on in reference to the numbers $400 an hour, and $20,000 a week. While I believe there are certainly $400 hours and even $20,000 weeks, I just don't believe these are the norm or average.

That is what I feel like Darkoz did to some extent. maybe I am wrong. Maybe he has employees making a million dollars a year (20k x 50 weeks).

Anyway, that is as far as I want to go. Not calling anyone a liar. or doubting that Darkoz is a successful AP doing what he claims. I just feel like there is some dishonesty in some of those numbers.
link to original post

But he never said or even implied $400/hr every hr in a 40hr work week.
(At least from my reading of this thread.)

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: kewlj

Quote: 100xOdds

Why don't you believe him?

That said, I feel like there was some cherry-picking going on in reference to the numbers $400 an hour, and $20,000 a week. While I believe there are certainly $400 hours and even $20,000 weeks, I just don't believe these are the norm or average.

That is what I feel like Darkoz did to some extent. maybe I am wrong. Maybe he has employees making a million dollars a year (20k x 50 weeks).

Anyway, that is as far as I want to go. Not calling anyone a liar. or doubting that Darkoz is a successful AP doing what he claims. I just feel like there is some dishonesty in some of those numbers.
link to original post

But he never said or even implied $400/hr every hr in a 40hr work week.
(At least from my reading of this thread.)
link to original post

Thank you, 100 (keep it hunderd)

I NEVER said any of my employees make $20,000 a week either. This is just incredible how the imagination snowballs everything.

TO BE CLEAR, None of my workers make a million a year nor $20,000 a week.

TO BE CLEAR I make $20,000 for myself a week BUT NOT EVERY WEEK. No, I never claimed to make a million. Other people claimed I did.

My workers make $400 an hour. Just the very first time you work for me would be you going to a casino and getting me players cards. I probably could honestly have said starting pay is $400 for five minutes. You don't need training to get me a card and we all know in general how long it takes to sign up. But just getting me your first card, you got paid $400 for an hour.

And OBVIOUSLY you aren't getting paid for 8 hours to sign up for a card, duh!!!.

The workers who have graduated to pickups will go in and grab my Freeplay. Usually I give them enough for two hours work. They get $400 an hour too although it's based on workload (what should take two hours so if they want to leave halfway for dinner or go see a movie fine, they can finish when they get back)

But most of my workers want to be in and out. Most keep day jobs and on the East Coast that means regular day jobs (i.e. not casino related) because we all know there are gaps where casinos have shut us down and we move on)

I have about ten workers who make about $60-100,000 a year. Even then the work is for just a few hours a week. Absolutely NONE of my workers does even 20 hours of work a week. Hell, why would they? We all enjoy a well paying job where we aren't tied down.

Right now two of my workers are on vacation out the country. I have one worker that goes every month to Aruba and such places. WE DON'T WANT FULL TIME WORK!

As to the Freeplay, it's on scheduling determined by different casinos. There are some weeks I don't have freeplay. That's when I don't make $20,000.

There are weeks I do have freeplay. That's when I do make $20,000.

Some of that is due to casino schedule for freeplay but it's also because I don't prep new cards at the same location in general so if the casino finds out and shuts me down, I have no new cards affected. So sometimes a bunch of cards are finished and there is some lead time while I prep a new set.

But I am not making a little money this week and a lot that week. I am making NO MONEY one week and $20,000 the next.

Hence, I make $20,000 a week. But not every week!

Quote: darkoz

I NEVER said any of my employees make $20,000 a week either. This is just incredible how the imagination snowballs everything.

Darkoz, I don't want to get into a big thing with you over this....but I believe you did say that. I am not going to spend my Sunday reading back through thousands of posts, but I remember several different people, including Axelwolf interpreted your comments in that way.

One need only read the original post of this thread to see another member, MrV, who's interest was piqued thinking he could make $400 an hour for a few hours work each week.

Whether intentional or not, I think your description was misleading and that a number of people seemed to misinterpret it, kind of proves that.

It's all good though.

Quote: kewlj

Quote: darkoz

I NEVER said any of my employees make $20,000 a week either. This is just incredible how the imagination snowballs everything.

Darkoz, I don't want to get into a big thing with you over this....but I believe you did say that. I am not going to spend my Sunday reading back through thousands of posts, but I remember several different people, including Axelwolf interpreted your comments in that way.

One need only read the original post of this thread to see another member, MrV, who's interest was piqued thinking he could make $400 an hour for a few hours work each week.

Whether intentional or not, I think your description was misleading and that a number of people seemed to misinterpret it, kind of proves that.

It's all good though.
link to original post

Nope never said and I appreciate your not putting words into my mouth.

I said I, me, Darkoz makes $20,000 a week.

I am going to save you the time of looking through all my thousands of posts because you will never ever ever ever find me saying my employees make $20,000 a week.

This is just getting ridiculous now.

In fact it seems to be some coordinated effort to disprove what I say by applying statements I never made to me.

It's tantalizing how other posters keep adding to my claims and then accuse me of being misleading.

Quote: darkoz

It's tantalizing how other posters keep adding to my claims and then accuse me of being misleading.
link to original post

Our arguments with you are semantic. I would say ‘I make $20k many weeks’. Not ‘I make $20k a week’. Do you not agree my statement about you is clearer than your statement?

As far as how to count ‘hours worked’ and travel time, I think if I was an AP I’d DEFINITELY include travel time in my calculations. If there is an opportunity to make an easy $1k but it entails a 6 hour drive each way, with an overnight stay, even if the play takes an hour, I’d be a fool to say I made $1k an hour.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: darkoz

It's tantalizing how other posters keep adding to my claims and then accuse me of being misleading.
link to original post

Our arguments with you are semantic. I would say ‘I make $20k many weeks’. Not ‘I make $20k a week’. Do you not agree my statement about you is clearer than your statement?

As far as how to count ‘hours worked’ and travel time, I think if I was an AP I’d DEFINITELY include travel time in my calculations. If there is an opportunity to make an easy $1k but it entails a 6 hour drive each way, with an overnight stay, even if the play takes an hour, I’d be a fool to say I made $1k an hour.
link to original post

No your statement isn't clearer because you conveniently left out where I said "not every week"

Once again with misquotes.

Darkoz says he makes $20,000 a week (leave out where I say not every week)

Soopoo says isn't"I make $20,000 many weeks more clear"?

The only people who make what I say unclear are those who continually misquote me.

Now some people are quoting me as saying even my employees make $20,000 a week.

It's really amazing that people can't understand two simple sentences. And oh, sorry, I make $20,000 a week but not every week is much more confusing than saying I make $20,000 several weeks a year.

SMFH.

No wonder I run circles around casinos.

So to make you happy, Soopoo, I only make $20,000 several weeks a year.

Or basically $20,000 a week but not every week!

Quote: kewlj

Quote: darkoz

I NEVER said any of my employees make $20,000 a week either. This is just incredible how the imagination snowballs everything.

Darkoz, I don't want to get into a big thing with you over this....but I believe you did say that. I am not going to spend my Sunday reading back through thousands of posts, but I remember several different people, including Axelwolf interpreted your comments in that way.

One need only read the original post of this thread to see another member, MrV, who's interest was piqued thinking he could make $400 an hour for a few hours work each week.

Whether intentional or not, I think your description was misleading and that a number of people seemed to misinterpret it, kind of proves that.

It's all good though.
link to original post

He never said an employee makes $20k a week. He said he does. Seriously, you are now moving the goal post in a weird way.

Quote: unJon

[He never said an employee makes $20k a week. He said he does. Seriously, you are now moving the goal post in a weird way.

You may be right. I may have mixed up the two. But the distinction between him or employees is not as great as you think.

First everything I said still applied. When someone says they make 20k a week, most people are like, well that is a million dollars a year. I don't believe he "averages" 20k a week does he? Just like the example I gave of myself, he may have 20k weeks, but that is far from norm.

And second, it still remains that you need look no further than the original poster of this thread to see someone, one of many that were mislead. MrV showed an interest thinking he could make $400 and hour based on darkoz's statement. THAT is what that post that started this thread was about! MrV figured, he visits a casino once a week and could make $400 an hour playing for Darkoz for 2 or 3 hours...easy money.

However you slice it, to me and many others, these statements by darkoz are somewhat misleading. We can debate whether intentional or not.

Quote: SOOPOO

As far as how to count ‘hours worked’ and travel time, I think if I was an AP I’d DEFINITELY include travel time in my calculations.
If there is an opportunity to make an easy $1k but it entails a 6 hour drive each way, with an overnight stay, even if the play takes an hour, I’d be a fool to say I made $1k an hour.
link to original post

Well obviously if you take it to an extreme, then yes take travel time.

For me, I don't consider travel time if it's less than 1hr each way.
(I drive 45min to 1hr each way to my corporate job.)

Here's another example from my own experiences. This is going to draw critisism from a few people that seem to hate me talking numbers about my results, but I don't care. It is a good example. I made 140k playing blackjack this year. So what if I say I make 140k a year playing blackjack, is that a lie? No.....I just did it! Hower that number 140k is almost twice what I average from blackjack over the last 12 years (averaging 80k). I DO NOT make 140k every year. But I did this year. That is exactly what I believe is taking place with darkoz.

But we can clear this up right now: Darkoz, do you "AVERAGE" a million dollars a year? is it anywhere close to that? If the answer is no, then you are not making 20k a week. and should make it clear, that while you may experience 20k weeks, it is far from average.

Quote: kewlj

Here's another example from my own experiences. This is going to draw critisism from a few people that seem to hate me talking numbers about my results, but I don't care. It is a good example. I made 140k playing blackjack this year. So what if I say I make 140k a year playing blackjack, is that a lie? No.....I just did it! Hower that number 140k is almost twice what I average from blackjack over the last 12 years (averaging 80k). I DO NOT make 140k every year. But I did this year. That is exactly what I believe is taking place with darkoz.

But we can clear this up right now: Darkoz, do you "AVERAGE" a million dollars a year? is it anywhere close to that? If the answer is no, then you are not making 20k a week. and should make it clear, that while you may experience 20k weeks, it is far from average.
link to original post

It's clear at this point people are purposefully not reading my posts.

I have answered this same question in many different ways. Within the last two pages of this very thread I believe I have already answered it three separate posts.

The short answer since people can't understand long ones is this.

When I work for a week (or my crew) I make $20,000.

When my crew and I have the week off we don't.

We don't work every week of the year. But when we do, I make $20,000 that week.

Also, if Mr. V was looking for a job that flew right over my head. It appeared to me he was just curious. I have stated before on this forum I don't hire anyone unless they are introduced by someone I know. This forum doesn't count lol as I don't really know you guys beyond post history. There was zero chance Mr. V would have been hired.

Not to mention he doesn't even live in the areas I am at to my knowledge.

Quote: kewlj

And second, it still remains that you need look no further than the original poster of this thread to see someone, one of many that were mislead.
MrV showed an interest thinking he could make $400 and hour based on darkoz's statement. THAT is what that post that started this thread was about!

MrV figured, he visits a casino once a week and could make $400 an hour playing for Darkoz for 2 or 3 hours...easy money.

However you slice it, to me and many others, these statements by darkoz are somewhat misleading. We can debate whether intentional or not.
link to original post

um.. $400/hr but only working a couple of hrs a week for most weeks is also what I take DarkOz as saying.

Maybe he only works 13 weeks a year because his year is suited like cards.

Quote: ChumpChange

Maybe he only works 13 weeks a year because his year is suited like cards.
link to original post

But then I would only be making chump change :)

And as far as "travel time", it is very different when talking about an AP and talking about someone driving to and from their 9 to 5 job. Apples to oranges. Anyone that doesn't understand that, isn't understanding what advantage play is. A great example of just how different was the example of an AP who travels hours to a game, or flies and spends the night in a hotel or the casinos. If you are not including time, you are giving some very misleading numbers.

Now I personally don't do all that kind of air travel and overnight travel that many card counters do, traveling all over the country. 80% of my play, maybe more over the last 2 years takes place in one place, Las Vegas. But I may hit 5 casinos in one day. I try to break it into areas or sections, but in one day I may hit Silverton, South Point, The M, Green Valley Ranch, Sunset Station. Kind of my southern or Henderson route While all in close proximity, usually just down the street from the next, I am probably in the car 20 minutes, maybe more between each location including parking and walking in the casinos. If I am only accounting for the time I am seated at the table, that isn't a true accounting of what I make and what it takes to make it.

Again, we are not going in circles here. I am not doubting or challenging what darkoz makes or claims to make. he has demonstrated enough knowledge and expertise, that I don't doubt him. Others may, that is up to them. I just think some of these statements involving money and money made per hour, week ect are misleading. I think we can see that right in this thread. That's all.

Quote: kewlj

Again, we are not going in circles here. I am not doubting or challenging what darkoz makes or claims to make. he has demonstrated enough knowledge and expertise, that I don't doubt him. Others may, that is up to them. I just think some of these statements involving money and money made per hour, week ect are misleading. I think we can see that right in this thread. That's all.
link to original post

I don't want to argue either.

I don't pay for traveling time.

That said, the number of hours a person works changes based on travel.

So if it's local pu I give my people's maybe an hour or two of work.

If they are going far away, another state for example then they are getting work that might last six hours.

If they are spending a night over, they might have twelve hours of work to divide between days. It varies.

People do spend overnight while working for me. I know most of those overnight jaunts they grab a bottle and party hard or go out clubbing. While they must needs be overnight for me I don't pay them to go clubbing and drinking. That's their time.

duplicate

Quote: kewlj

Again, we are not going in circles here. I am not doubting or challenging what darkoz makes or claims to make. he has demonstrated enough knowledge and expertise, that I don't doubt him. Others may, that is up to them.
I just think some of these statements involving money and money made per hour, week ect are misleading. I think we can see that right in this thread. That's all.
link to original post

i think you're injecting your own point of view into what DarkOz is saying.

You are injecting travel time into his $400/hr rate.
No one else is

Quote: SOOPOO

As far as how to count ‘hours worked’ and travel time, I think if I was an AP I’d DEFINITELY include travel time in my calculations. If there is an opportunity to make an easy $1k but it entails a 6 hour drive each way, with an overnight stay, even if the play takes an hour, I’d be a fool to say I made $1k an hour.
link to original post

This reminds me of an example from college. Some union claimed that their members made "up to $500 an hour!" The one making the $500 an hour" was the name entertainer (do not ask they did not say who) that had to have a union card to work in the union shop.

My hustle leaves all kinds of ways to count "per hour." Per hour of "work" I get $30-60. But like a stewardess on a plane I have to be there early, so that could cut down the number by 20%. I have to travel sometimes a couple hours each way. So I only say "per hour" to explain you need to take a hustle that pays high per hour of work time.

I always found people who think in terms of hourly pay are lower lever workers who never rise because they do not accept you have to drive further and do more for the better paying work. I think in terms of per year, month, or week depending. Side hustle I figure per year. Selling covered calls per month though sometimes per week.

The gambling diary wants to know how much time you spent at a specific table, not how long it took you to leave the table, cruise by the bar for a drink, then wait in line at the cashier's cage for 20 minutes. I'm tempted to include all that though. Include travel time & gas money & per mile allowance? I'll be taking notes.

Quote: ChumpChange

The gambling diary wants to know how much time you spent at a specific table, not how long it took you to leave the table, cruise by the bar for a drink, then wait in line at the cashier's cage for 20 minutes. I'm tempted to include all that though. Include travel time & gas money & per mile allowance? I'll be taking notes.
link to original post

i'm using excel spreadsheet on my phone to keep track of wins/losses.
and for poker, i also keep track of # of hrs at the poker table to get $/hr to gauge my poker skill.

maybe i should create a 2nd hour column for slots to gauge my AP skill?
ie: # hrs in casino - # hrs for poker

what gambling app do you use?

A notebook and a pen, for me.

Specifically, the notebook can be burnt when I no longer need it and can not be hacked.