Drama at Mardi Gras Casino WV

So I go to Mardi Gras casino in WV about 5-6 nights a week. My gf goes with me every Saturday. Im a Black Diamond player there and many of the dealers and pit bosses know me on a first name basis. I am a respected player and play blackjack and craps. I typically tip, very very well.

Well, last night we (my gf and I)are at the craps table at about 3 am. There are about 7 players at the entire table. Not crowded at all. My gf and I are only 2 people at table not together, the other 5 are a group of African American men all together. They all have bought in for 100-200 each. They are being super annoying and obnoxious. Betting all the hard ways, hopping numbers, and betting primarily field bets. I can tell by conversation they all know the dealer on my side of table as she is an African American female dealer and they keep calling each other nicknames. I play the donts betting $10 line bets with $60 odds and Im starting to do pretty well. Of course the high house edge hard way and hop betters are losing. Well, Im winning, they are losing and the annoyance gets greater. They start tell me its because Im causing "bad karma" the table is cold and everyone is losing. Also, during this span I made $5 line bets with odds for the dealers and they had won about $100 themselves.

The dice then comes to the most annoying of the players at the table, the one right beside us. He rolls the dice against our side of the table about 6 times waiting to pick his lucky 2. When he does, he picks them up, blows on them, sets them, and does a 10 minute ritual before shooting. My gf speaks up and says "ARE YOU GOING TO ROLL THE DICE OR NOT BUDDY"? He then makes the dealer take them back and said his mojo is ruined. He needs a minute. LoL So dealer that is friends with him speaks up and tells my gf she needs to shut up and mind her own business since shes not playing. So immediately, I snap. I said "No one wants that spot, the table isnt crowded, I am highest stake player at table and only one tipping. She is allowed to be there." Dealer then responds with "ITS COVID AND YOU GUYS DONT EVEN HAVE MASKS ON", I then say, masks are not required here and we are vaccinated, so we're doing nothing wrong. Keep in mind while this conversation is happening, the dice are in the middle of the table because Mr. Ritual Shooter sent them back. So, hes becoming irate saying the guy who is betting against him is killing tje karma and mojo of the table. I tell him its all random and no matter what he does with the dice, it is irrelevant and the 7 is still most likely number. He says "NOTHING IS RANDOM WHEN I HAVE THE DICE". I say, "really? Is that why you bet so big with those 2 red chips each roll?" Pit Boss hears us getting heated and comes over. Moves dealer arguing with us away from out end of table and splits up me and Mr. Ritual. Sends him to her end. Lets me and gf stay on my end with a new dealer.

Before they send him the dice, I go to my wallet and pull out another $2000 cash. I buy in for more. At this point, Im trying to do everything I can these superstitious people think ruins the table. I place a $50 line bet on the dont for me and $10 for dealers. Its still his Come Out and he rolls a yo. I lose. His World bets wins and he starts taunting me like he has some secret figured out. So I say screw it. $100 line bet on dont for me. $25 for dealers. He sets a 6. I lay $600 odds for me, $30 for dealers. I put another $100 in DC. He throws an 8. I lay $600 with the 8. One more $100 DC. He throws a hard 10. He hits the hard way and celebrates. Full presses it. Thinks hes got this figured out. I lay another $600 odds. Usually, I tell my gf to stand quietly while we play the donts and be rude, but tonight, I tell her to loudly cheer for the 7 and its OK. She starts yelling "7, 7, 7, 7!!!!!". Mr. Ritual is pissed. He rolls the dice and luckily, its a 7! As the dealer stacks up my $3600 in chips and her $105, the whole group of people at table are furious. I yell down to dealer who knew them, "Hey B, theres $105 for ya. Hope you have a good night". She says "I dont want or need your money". I said "Well, your peers do".

I then color up and say Im heading to cage. Mr. Ritual threatens to follow me outside. He said I costs him a lot of money tonight and he needs it back. I inform him following me outside will be a mistake he doesnt want to make. I said, its all random, its all math. Learn it!

As I cash chips at cage, I tell head of security and table games manager about the entire incident. I have received word already today both incidents were handled and would not happen again. They said I am a valued player there and the dealer should not talk to players the way my gf and I were and that threats from opposing players would not be tolerated.

Just figured some of you may enjoy this read.

Don’t know that I’d like 5-on-1 odds, so I assume you’re packing and you don’t have to go to your vehicle to get the goods.

Crazy story!

Quote: Mission146

Don’t know that I’d like 5-on-1 odds, so I assume you’re packing and you don’t have to go to your vehicle to get the goods.

Crazy story!

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Might want to go play BJ and tell players you hope their luck changes. Who needs all this aggravation ?
Soon or later you might see these players again. Pulling a tigers tail rarely has a happy ending.

Quote: FastEddie

Quote: Mission146

Don’t know that I’d like 5-on-1 odds, so I assume you’re packing and you don’t have to go to your vehicle to get the goods.

Crazy story!

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Might want to go play BJ and tell players you hope their luck changes. Who needs all this aggravation ?
Soon or later you might see these players again. Pulling a tigers tail rarely has a happy ending.

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Maybe I'm the Tiger?

It's not like the Don't was only available to me! Anyone can bet it. I never did understand why people wont switch on a cold table!

And maybe one of idiots might see your GF when you aren’t around.
Never try and teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and irritates the pig.

Were they all playing at the table together and then you came up and started playing the Don't? Who was there first?

I think most everyone will agree that if a craps table is cheering, points are being made right and left, and someone comes up and tosses a nickel on the Don't that that is a diahk move.

In your case however, sounds like you were betting more than the lot of them combined? I.E. It wasn't just an insulting eye wash of a minimum bet cast against the table. If so, that does count for something. It's not like you were tossing some pittance on there which wouldn't have mattered much against their bets - you were the big bettor?

Then, there's etiquette. Yes, I realize you got to the point of declaring "Forget them!" and just calling loudly? for a 7-out during their roll, but isn't that really, solidly against craps etiquette? I haven't played craps for many many years, so, I am just asking, I assume from what little craps I have played that doing something like that is not considered cool. Then again, it seems like they were taunting you verbally too.

I do know how it works in Baccarat. For example on one of my recent sessions. I was winning handily on a public table. For whatever reason, I was winning most of my hands. Then some player showed up with a bankroll of something like twelve hundred dollars to my eighty thousand that I had in front of me, and plopped down a few bets in rapid succession on Player (Martingaling). Lost the first, won the second two.

Now, I wasn't influenced by this player to bet against him, nor was this player deliberately betting against me, obviously this player genuinely believed that Player was going to win. But, at a minimum this invasion slowed the game down and made me doubt a few of my hand choices. And this player did end up losing everything - twice - showed up to do whatever on two separate occasions, and during the time that Player was there I was at best breaking even. When the Player left, the dealer made a face and brushed the table outwards as if to sweep away the player's presence, and said, "Bad juju."

And to take this Baccarat etiquette related discussion further, when there are opposing sides betting, and say, I'm on Bank and there is a draw for Player and the card that the Player needs to draw for me to win instantly on Bank is a face card, yes! if my bet is large enough my heart might be pounding a tad and I definitely am thinking, silently, Monkey! Monkey! hoping that this opposing player will "crap out" with that draw, but I am not going to say it out loud. (But, I will say, that when enough players are on one side and just one player comes up and bets against the entire table, that I have heard on rare occasion one of the others make a call, out loud, for the opposing player to draw that losing, Monkey.)

I recall playing at a craps table where there was a Don't player who was betting fairly serious money. That player mostly kept mouth shut, but I was asking about how it worked on a couple of rolls, and asked if could change from Don't to the pass line after the come out roll, and the player said, "Yes," but added, because the come out roll was a 10, "Why?" as in why would want to do that on a 10 where the odds favored a 7 before a 10.

In short, there are complexities and subtleties to your situation where I think some blame should be apportioned to everyone at the table. At a Baccarat table, given that it is mostly treated in a more formal and somber manner, the sorts of things you describe - loudly calling for the opposing side's failure, and openly taunting the other side to fail - would be considered quite impolite. But at a craps table where being vocal is the norm, I don't know.

Perhaps we should ask our resident craps expert, Alan Mendelson.

If I'm throwing the dice (for extremely low stakes no less), and somebody puts a large Don't bet down in the middle of my turn, I'm just not gonna 7-out for him. I'd tell him I only try to throw 7's on the come-out and he should try a PL bet then.

Well what if he lifts up a shiny black hundred dollar chip and tells you it's yours if you 7 out?


I've done as much for red chip shooters who have made me money at the tables (Pass line). Not offered it in advance, but run over and handed the chip over after the roll.

Of course I'm being facetious. That someone bets against me in Baccarat or someone calls for a 7-out doesn't really affect anything. But in general, it's considered impolite to call loudly for the opposing side's failure. (But, as I noted above, there were transgressions on both sides in what MWalz9 described - both sides seemed to have unclean hands.)

And I've never seen a divided Baccarat table do well. Even if one side is more right than the other, that winning side tends to cut their bets because the opposition makes them doubt their hand choices. And in the end, I notice that no one ends up winning.

So security was mentioned? Alerted.

Valued, right?

I see. Nice.

I saw one guy get kicked out of the casino for saying he left his wife locked in the trunk of his car in the casino parking lot.

Quote: MDawg

Of course I'm being facetious. That someone bets against me in Baccarat or someone calls for a 7-out doesn't really affect anything. But in general, it's considered impolite to loudly call for the opposing side's failure. (But, as I noted above, there were transgressions on both sides in what MWalz9 described - both sides seemed to have unclean hands.)

And I've never seen a divided Baccarat table do well. Even if one side is more right than the other, that winning side tends to cut their bets because the opposition makes them doubt their hand choices. And in the end, I notice that no one ends up winning.

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MDawg is correct. As I said, I normally use etiquette. I tell my gf, who doesnt know the game like me, to stay quiet. In my eyes, these guys deserved it. I normally, never would do that even though I always play the dont and usually just collect quietly. I was the biggest bettor at tje table even before I went to $100/$600. My $10/$60 was still highest action at table.

I also, while I hate people who do superstitious rituals with the dice and feel it wastes time, never say anything. Since my gf opened that can of worms, I had to clean it up.

Alone, Id have just thought to myself guy was an idiot.

And speaking of African Americans, I was in the elevator with one recently who was about seven feet tall. Apparently there was some sports event in town for these tall athletes. I asked him if he had won, and he said, yes, and then he asked me if I had won.

"You mean at the tables? Yes, I'm doing okay."

"What game do you play?"

"Baccarat."

"Me too." He smiled.

And here is where I wanted to ask - how did you get into Baccarat? I didn't mean so much or just because he was African American, but...American, period. In general the Bacc pits are filled with mostly Asians, the rest Europeans. Very few Americans. But I didn't have time between the few floors until he got off to voice the question in a clearly non-racial manner, to make clear that I was asking about national origin, not race.

White guys play Euchre.

Sounds like too much drama for me. I’m there to enjoy myself…not get into some war of words or uncomfortable situation with people that are acting like jerkwads.

i once was in a similar situation... except it was one guy... caucaian male about 5 times the size of me

i showed up at the table started playing and he started to lose and he threatened me and specifically said that he was a nazi and if i didnt leave he was going to hurt me

i am a scronny dude and politely told him i wasnt going anywhere. mind you this was in front of a table of people and a dealer and the dealer was ready to call the pit manager but nothing ever came about it.

yes i zigzagged and watched my back when i left but that happened years ago and here i am today

Most seven footers wouldn't be comfortable playing BJ or Poker. I've never paid attention to Baccarat, do you sit or stand for it?

Quote: billryan

Most seven footers wouldn't be comfortable playing BJ or Poker. I've never paid attention to Baccarat, do you sit or stand for it?

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Yes.

A full table is absolutely bonkers. I have to admit, it’s kind of fun just to watch for a few minutes. No interest in playing; it’s a coin flip with cards.

Please excuse my ignorance as I have never played a live craps table since my BR can't survive the variance right now, but is it really that rude to make Don't Pass/Come bets when the table is hitting a lot of points? I see it as just playing to the lowest HE and I do not understand why people would be angry at such a thing.

Quote: TheCapitalShip

Please excuse my ignorance as I have never played a live craps table since my BR can't survive the variance right now, but is it really that rude to make Don't Pass/Come bets when the table is hitting a lot of points? I see it as just playing to the lowest HE and I do not understand why people would be angry at such a thing.

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It’s rude to argue against the existence of God if you are visiting a church. It’s not rude in a formal debate hall. Superstition is the God of most Crap Tables.

Is a Craps Table a church or a debate hall?

Actually, it doesn’t matter. Tell them if they want you to play the Pass Line, that you’ll be perfectly happy to do so as long as they provide your chips.

Once , I was playing with people who looked like mercenaries. I was winning. Everyone else was losing.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: TheCapitalShip

Please excuse my ignorance as I have never played a live craps table since my BR can't survive the variance right now, but is it really that rude to make Don't Pass/Come bets when the table is hitting a lot of points? I see it as just playing to the lowest HE and I do not understand why people would be angry at such a thing.

link to original post

It’s rude to argue against the existence of God if you are visiting a church. It’s not rude in a formal debate hall. Superstition is the God of most Crap Tables.

Is a Craps Table a church or a debate hall?

Actually, it doesn’t matter. Tell them if they want you to play the Pass Line, that you’ll be perfectly happy to do so as long as they provide your chips.

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Didn't know superstition was such a big thing at Craps tables, I will have to remember that for when I decide to try it out at mine. I will for sure ask anyone to provide me chips if they ask me to play the Pass line though, aint nobody convincing me to not play dark side!

Delete

I’ve had people get pissed off when I’m betting don’t pass

I’ll never understand. It would be like me getting mad at someone betting red on the roulette table when I’m betting black

I need to make a prank video where I do everything you are not supposed to do at the craps table.

When relating something I notice in a casino, I often mention race or ethnicity. It's something we all notice as gamblers I think, enough so that I don't get complaints.

For my 2 cents on this story, I think if it was me relating it, I would have left out the racial angle, it kind of makes for an ugly story.

Well, like I say, maybe I shouldn't be the one to say something, considering, but I wonder how many were thinking the same thing.

The best thing is let events put these kind in there place.

I was at a table once and picked up my DON'T bet because I went against math and had a feeling. Guy to my left is with his GF and tells me "you can't do that!" to try to impress her at my expense. I just replied, "yes, I can."

He repeats it again and I repeat again, I am giving off the vibe of wanting to be left alone. After the third "yes, I can" guy asks the dealer about it and dealer says, "yes, he can" and emasculating the guy in front of his GF.

I keep quiet but some older black guy to my right very politely asks me what the DON'T bet is. So I politely explain it to him knowing it is driving the guy to my left nuts.

I have a good one.

Was playing craps and had a good rapport with the guy next to me, celebrating high fives etc.

When the guy got excited for an upcoming roll, he would tap my shoulder and point at the table, except instead of my shoulder he kinda reached to his right and tapped the front of my shirt. It sounds weirder than it probably was, and didn’t really bother me.

Once he had tapped me on the front like 5 times I said very jokingly “what, are you rubbing my belly for good luck?”

The guy immediately turned on me and started getting in my face and screaming “I WOULD NEVER EVER RUB ANOTHER MAN’S BELLY!!!!”

I was about done anyway so I just grabbed my chips and left. I can’t imagine what the other players/pit thought when they heard that.

Craps players are nutso.

Seems like the casino / dealer should have de-escalated this before it got as far as it did. Anyway, glad it didn't get any further out of hand. But no doubt that what could have been a pleasant evening, wasn't.

Quote: JohnnyQ

Seems like the casino / dealer should have de-escalated this before it got as far as it did. Anyway, glad it didn't get any further out of hand. But no doubt that what could have been a pleasant evening, wasn't.

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I would say Boxman or Pit Boss. Dealers should not be put in that position.

The dealer who said she did not need the tip I would have suspended for 3 days, there and then. Tell her if she does that again she is fired. When she comes back a couple hours enhanced customer service training in which she does not get the tip chop.

Quote: AZDuffman

I would say Boxman or Pit Boss. Dealers should not be put in that position.

Well I'll just go with the "casino management" then.

This can't be the first time that the combination of losing/drinking/being an arsehole to start with has created an ugly situation. The casino management should have some tools/training in place to prevent it from getting this far. DE-escalate. Call a time out. Whatever.