New casino in upstate NY just opened

There is a new River's casino in upstate NY that just rolled out a couple weeks ago.

I have went and was pretty disturbed.

The floor is nice, food is "okay." There are a lot of wrinkles they are fixing, some of which were simply caused by extremely high turnout the first couple weeks. For example, there was a point where the lowest minimum tables were ~$50.

The poker room is a bit too small. They had one limit table (3/6) that had a >6 hour wait.

Dealers were making a lot of early mistakes. I saw a dealer pay a player holding a KJT a three card straight payout in 3CP, probably because he hit the straight as part of the 6 card bonus (it's even worse because the player actually lost the three card hand). I saw many more.

Progressive jackpots on five card games (let it ride, MS) that carry a ~40% HE were $5, no $1. This seems inappropriate.

By far the worst issue I noticed was playing Fortune Asian poker, the same game here: https://wizardofodds.com/games/asia-poker/

I saw a player get a 3456-joker hand and not get paid on the Fortune side bet for a straight. When I corrected the dealer, I was told that they do not pay for 5 card fortune side bet hands if a joker is involved, unless a joker is explicitly mentioned in the payout (e.g.,St. Flush with Joker or 5 Aces in the side bet in the above link). This is simply not correct. It turns out, however, the dealer was not just confused....the whole staff has received incorrect guidance on that. I spent a considerable amount of time explaining to the pit boss that the joker is included as part of hands for the purpose of the main game and the fortune side bet. I even asked them why they thought a straight paid lower than three of a kind if a joker was not relevant to the odds. The answers I got reflected that they simply did not understand what they were talking about. But I suspect players have lost 10s of thousands of dollars by now on that side bet because of that error, and I'm not sure if it is even legal. I would appreciate guidance from the forum. Apparently, even the pit is confused.

I am not sure how it works if a casino simply makes up their own rules regarding popular bets. It seemed to me just like saying that an A-2-3 isn't a straight in 3 card poker because an Ace is high, putting that into the pamphlet, and saying "this is our rules" without changing any other aspect of the game or paytable. But, in fact, the Asia poker mistake *was* written down in their little note thingy, but not anywhere in the brochure for the game. It's obviously wrong.

I love Asia poker, and do not in general bet side bets. I will be nearby early May and will likely go try it out. Hopefully your issue will be resolved by then.

You might drop.a PM to Roger Snow, Pacman on here, because he's the distributor for this game and sidebet. It may be that the casino has decided to (and can) do this, but usually, when a game goes through the state approval process, the state approves certain paytables and procedures, and the casino is not supposed to deviate. They can look into it.

Anyway, I'd tell him first. If you don't hear back in a couple of days, you should be able to reach him via Scientific Gaming in Las Vegas. Let us know.

Quote: beachbumbabs

..... because he's the distributor for this game and sidebet........................... the state approves certain paytables and procedures, and the casino is not supposed to deviate.

IF the game is proprietary then any such changes impair the public perception of his game and impair his trademarked property though even in the very unlikely event that the casino modifications are in fact legal he could force the changes to be undone.

When dealers and Pit do not agree....and you can tell that neither really know what they are doing that is the time to ask that the DTG and Shift Boss be paged. When the Director of Table Games and the Shift Boss arrive, don't waste their time and don't make it look as if you are some disgruntled player who wants his twenty bucks back, just make your presentation on the math quickly and confidently.

I spoke to a Director of Table Games only once in my life... and believe me, he has CLOUT!

New York
State Gaming Commission R
ules and Regulations
9 NYCRR §§ 5324.52

. Asia poker

3)
For purposes of setting the hands, a joker may be used as any card to
complete
a straight, a flush, a straight flush or a royal flush.

Quote: Ernesto

New York
State Gaming Commission R
ules and Regulations
9 NYCRR §§ 5324.52

. Asia poker

3)
For purposes of setting the hands, a joker may be used as any card to
complete
a straight, a flush, a straight flush or a royal flush.

I agree. I need to find someone who will listen to show this to, who doesn't just say "it's our rules"

It is in the main game, but they argue it is not for purposes of the Fortune side bet. That is still wrong. In fact, it's mostly the same paytable as in Fortune Pai Gown (2/3/4/5 for the straight/trips/flush/full house) with slightly different payouts for the premium and very rare hands like Five Aces, 9 high, etc.

I would like to know what the house edge is with the rules they are using.


Imagine getting a AKQJ suited + joker and not getting paid 200:1 on your Royal Flush? A lot of players may not even know, but I'd imagine they'd be in a web of trouble if a horde of previous players came in demanding compensation for previous big wins they were denied.

Quote: beachbumbabs

You might drop.a PM to Roger Snow, Pacman on here, because he's the distributor for this game and sidebet. It may be that the casino has decided to (and can) do this, but usually, when a game goes through the state approval process, the state approves certain paytables and procedures, and the casino is not supposed to deviate. They can look into it.

Anyway, I'd tell him first. If you don't hear back in a couple of days, you should be able to reach him via Scientific Gaming in Las Vegas. Let us know.

Thanks a lot!
I sent him an email at Roger.Snow@scientificgames.com
If there is a better method, someone can let me know.

Thanks for the feedback everyone

Quote: cmc0605

I agree. I need to find someone who will listen to show this to, who doesn't just say "it's our rules"

It is in the main game, but they argue it is not for purposes of the Fortune side bet. That is still wrong. In fact, it's mostly the same paytable as in Fortune Pai Gown (2/3/4/5 for the straight/trips/flush/full house) with slightly different payouts for the premium and very rare hands like Five Aces, 9 high, etc.

I would like to know what the house edge is with the rules they are using.


Imagine getting a AKQJ suited + joker and not getting paid 200:1 on your Royal Flush? A lot of players may not even know, but I'd imagine they'd be in a web of trouble if a horde of previous players came in demanding compensation for previous big wins they were denied.

You'd think so but they'll probably just be too to pound salt until it turns into pennies. There is a limited time to complain to gaming, gaming has never anywhere ordered a casino to track down the injured and repay them. Maybe there is some civil recourse not involving gaming, but difficult. They'll just deny and lie. A longtime ago, a man was banned from the Meadows and every casino in the area for past posting at craps. He said he was complaining about the casino charging a commission I believe that they were not entitled to charge. Someone else can remember perhaps. You expect these problems to change going forward, but don't expect the casino to pay out what was taken unlawfully. You might get yours, but they won't. I'd bet you have 7 days to files complaint with gaming about disputed hands, so hurry.