Surrender's low stakes trip report

Hi all, this is my first trip report. I hope you enjoy reading it, I had a good time. I prefer not to mention which casino it is.

TLDR(too long, didn't read) version: Broke even playing video poker, made steady money playing blackjack with hi-lo count, had a silly time playing craps.

My friends that enjoy gambling weren't around, and my wife was tired, so I took a trip by myself to a new casino. My goal was to give the casino some action and see what kind of mailers I can get, and it has been a while since I've been able to gamble so it felt like a gambling trip was overdue. I arrived and headed for the player's club area. It's one of those places where there's the long bending line for the average folk, and the short fast line for the people with more points. The line was long, and I think I spent about 20 minutes waiting. I ended up getting the card with some free play.

Video Poker:
I had 4 $50 bills, and about $100 in my wallet(which I didn't have to dive into this trip). I started by attempting to vulture Ultimate X. I think I generated ~$10 of EV doing this on about 5 machines, there just wasn't a lot there. Ultimate X netted me -$26. I then sat at a quarter JoB progressive and decided to give that a try for a while. It was 7-5 JoB and as I played, with every full house I got I kept thinking, man I just lost $2.50, why am I even playing this? And I also got several flushes and thought the same thing about my $1.25 floating away. I was meandering when I got a 3 of a kind that drew to a 4-of-a-kind. I played a bit more and ended up cashing $80, a profit of 30, making up for my Ultimate X loss. I cashed out from Video poker up $4.

Blackjack:
I scouted out the blackjack tables and found a $15 table that was full, and next to it was a table with 3 players and a fresh shuffle. I was hoping to wong in and just flat bet $25 until wonging out. 8 deck shoe, pretty good rules at this place. The count went up, it went neutral, it went up again... and then a seat opened up at the $15min table so I never ended up wonging in. So I sat down and I bought $100 in reds and started out losing 5 of my first 6 hands and quickly reloading with my other $100. Things slowly but surely turned around. The count never got too high and neither did my bets. At a true count of 2 on my second shoe, I got 2 blackjacks in a row betting 30,a $90 win nice and quickly. During the second hand, everybody got high cards. I think the running count went from 14 to 5 in one hand. So I went back to betting $15, and it was here that I experienced the highlight of the evening. I had a $15 bet out and was dealt a 16 and dealer had an A. He didn't have a blackjack, so when it came to me I motioned for a surrender. He took a GREEN chip, placed it under a pink, and pushed it towards me, taking my 3 reds. I slid the chips over to my pile and turned to the tv for a few seconds, taking a sip of my drink. at the end of the hand, the guy next to me congratulated me on my surrender. Any thoughts on this? I didn't feel it was unethical to just let the house give me what they gave me. At the end of about 3 shoes where I ran relatively well, I was up about $160. The true count never got above 2 and my bets never got above 30. It was late, and I decided I was done with blackjack. Maybe it's needless to say, but as a guy betting a $15-$30 spread in a pit with $50 minimums, I got no heat and would feel fine coming back tomorrow.

Craps... crap:
I was headed towards the cashier when I saw a $15 minimum craps table with just one shooter. I was surprised to see this on a busy Friday night. Some of you may recall I had bought some dice and was doing some dice control experiments. Well, I hadn't practiced much, and felt so awkward with people watching that I just decided to just randomly throw the dice. One time I placed a field bet of 15 which won 5 times in a row, once paying double on a 12. My early winnings quickly dwindled due to the fact that the first two times I had the dice, I rolled the dice twice. First dice set the point, second roll 7. I don't know if you all know this, but when you have a pass bet out, and you place both the 6 and the 8, and you roll a 7- you lose :-P. The third time I got the dice, the other shooter played the don't pass on me, which was probably the best bet the guy made all night. This time I made it a bit exciting as it took me about 12 rolls before I hit the 7, each time eluding the 10 I needed. After my initial winning streak betting the field, I found myself down about 75 and decided to make one last stand. Feeling a juvenile need to get back at the other person at the table who just won at my expense, and not wanting to walk away without playing the dark side once, I placed 15 on the don't pass line. He needed a 6 and I layed 30 on it. On about the 5th roll he hit the 7 and I colored out. I had a net loss of -$40 at craps, and I walked away feeling silly for shooting so poorly. I do think there is some possibility of being a dice influencer and having a slight edge on the game- but I think that would take at least 100 hours of practice, for a game that I just don't enjoy all that much. Maybe I'll try again at some point in the future, but I think I'll stick to blackjack and video poker for now.

I ended the night up $120, not bad for the tight video poker pay tables I was playing, and the low bankroll I came with for blackjack. All in all it was about 3 hours of gambling... I don't expect much in the way of mailers, but we'll see. It's nice to leave a winner, and my $15 turned $27.50 surrender was a nice highlight to the night :-).

aw, we need to know what casino! what are you worried about?

Quote:

I had bought some dice and was doing some dice control experiments. Well, I hadn't practiced much, and felt so awkward with people watching that I just decided to just randomly throw the dice

Yes, one thing that needs to be practiced ... maybe the first thing ... is setting quickly. This also occurred to me a bit late LOL.

I have had fun setting the dice, but the last few times havent set them at all, doing too well with the "randies"

I'll comment on the incorrect surrender return. It's not the players job to monitor, train or assist the dealer in any way. That is the casino's job. The dealer, without looking, obviously went into the green row of the tray instead of the red. This happens. It's not your problem just as it's not your problem when they break procedure and pay incorrectly with dirty money.

I have a set way of dealing with this that results in me keeping it some of the time. I'll usually wait a few extra seconds before taking it to give the dealer a chance to catch it. I never do anything to try to cause a dealer mistake. You'd be surprised how many players call out the wrong total for their hand and get the dealer to pay them on a push or even a loss. Beyond shameful.

Quote: odiousgambit

aw, we need to know what casino! what are you worried about?

I am playing rated and hope to generate comps based on all my action, and blackjack will be a good portion of that. I just want to do what I can to make that last. I don't have the attitude of needing to take what I can, while I can- I would like a sustainable edge, and I see comps as being a part of that. Maybe it's over paranoid...

Yes you're probably being over paranoid. No one cares (except maybe the EL Co) that you are trying to count their $15 game. Still if you want to keep it to yourself that's fine. Maybe a hint?

It's east of the Mississippi river :-)

Thanks for the trip report, enjoyed reading it.

Quote: surrender88s

Maybe it's needless to say, but as a guy betting a $15-$30 spread in a pit with $50 minimums, I got no heat and would feel fine coming back tomorrow.

I don't mean to be a dick, but there is good reason, why you wouldn't feel heat. A 15-30 spread is still a losing (neg EV) game except for the rarest of circumstances and conditions. They should welcome you back with open arms.

Quote: surrender88s

So I went back to betting $15, and it was here that I experienced the highlight of the evening. I had a $15 bet out and was dealt a 16 and dealer had an A. He didn't have a blackjack, so when it came to me I motioned for a surrender. He took a GREEN chip, placed it under a pink, and pushed it towards me, taking my 3 reds. I slid the chips over to my pile and turned to the tv for a few seconds, taking a sip of my drink. at the end of the hand, the guy next to me congratulated me on my surrender. Any thoughts on this? I didn't feel it was unethical to just let the house give me what they gave me.

It didn't feel unethical??? Are you trying to convince us or yourself. Lol. If you were completely comfortable with what happened, why did you go through the motions of pretending to be distracted by looking at the TV and taking a sip of your drink? I don't mean to judge, but you DID ask for thoughts.

Let's move out of the casino environment. You are at Walgreens, purchase an item for $6, pay with a ten dollar bill. The cashier hands you $14. How do you handle that? How about having just left the Walgreens, you see an older gentleman, drop a $20 bill as he is putting his wallet away? How do you handle that?

My point to these questions is that these three scenarios aren't all that different, but many people would handle them differently. There seems to be this mentality that anything is fair game in the casino environment. Check you 'ethics' at the casino entrance as if right and wrong no longer matter.

For what it's worth, I myself would handle the 3 above scenarios differently. I would keep the mis-pay at the casino and not the other situations. I have my reasons for this. It's basically about drawing attention. Pointing out the mis-pay draws attention to oneself and as an AP, my whole philosophy is about NOT drawing attention to myself. So I don't think I should have to pay for that dealers mistake, as far as attention. BUT, I don't try to convince myself that I am not doing wrong....I am.

Kewlj, thanks for your response. If the true count goes higher, and if I'm bankrolled, my max bet is $100. But the true count has to get higher than 2 for me to get up there. I would say I'm a casual gamer first, and an AP second, if that even makes any sense. I am good at keeping the hi lo count. But for instance, if I only have $200 in chips and the count isn't too high, I'll take a lower EV in order to decrease my risk of immediate ruin.

Thanks for your thoughts on my winning surrender. I certainly don't condone cheating or stealing. But I feel okay with taking what the casino gave me on this hand.

Quote: surrender88s

Kewlj, thanks for your response.
Thanks for your thoughts on my winning surrender. I certainly don't condone cheating or stealing. But I feel okay with taking what the casino gave me on this hand.

Whoa....I certainly didn't say anything about cheating or stealing...It's neither of those....that's a whole different ball game. YOU brought up the term 'unethical', and asked for thoughts. I think it's unethical. I think it's unethical when I do it. If you're ok with it that's all that matters. :)