Faro.
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:46:45 PM
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In part two of my look at defunct casino games I just created a new page on faro. I especially welcome the comments of the older members (calling Buzz and Doc) who may have actually seen the game. It made it until sometime in the 1980s in Reno, and I think Vegas still had several tables as late as the 1950s.
Almost all the information in my page comes from The Doctrine of Chances by Stuart Ethier. This is a book that should be on the shelf of any gambling mathematician/historian.
Almost all the information in my page comes from The Doctrine of Chances by Stuart Ethier. This is a book that should be on the shelf of any gambling mathematician/historian.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 23rd, 2012 at 2:52:06 PM
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Again, Very cool. Thanks!
Vote for Nobody 2020!
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:00:18 PM
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Here is a link to some images of a Faro table and "keep" on display at the Telluride Historical Museum
Edit: Here is a public domain image from a 1930's postcard:
Edit: Here is a public domain image from a 1930's postcard:
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:11:57 PM
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Faro holds a place in American history particularly in the West.
Although its said that Faro offered such a minute house advantage that the only way a saloon would make money was to stack the deck, I'm not at all convinced that saloons and gambling halls in the American West focused on the house edge as much as casinos of today do.
Even in the East, saloons were both formal and informal labor exchanges, language schools, immigrant resource centers, restaurants, banks and clubs. In the West, saloons served a pivotal role as not merely establishments of drinking and gambling, but as places where news was available and business was done. The establishments were gathering places, not merely shearing sheds for the unwary. There was no need to have a high house edge game to clean someone out and make room for other gamblers.
Although its said that Faro offered such a minute house advantage that the only way a saloon would make money was to stack the deck, I'm not at all convinced that saloons and gambling halls in the American West focused on the house edge as much as casinos of today do.
Even in the East, saloons were both formal and informal labor exchanges, language schools, immigrant resource centers, restaurants, banks and clubs. In the West, saloons served a pivotal role as not merely establishments of drinking and gambling, but as places where news was available and business was done. The establishments were gathering places, not merely shearing sheds for the unwary. There was no need to have a high house edge game to clean someone out and make room for other gamblers.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:21:58 PM
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again, great work and thank you!
i am glad that you saw fit to include this game
in your awesome collection of game strategies.
although we may never get to play the game,
it is mentioned a lot in gambling literature and western history
and it is nice to have a thorough analysis.
i am glad that you saw fit to include this game
in your awesome collection of game strategies.
although we may never get to play the game,
it is mentioned a lot in gambling literature and western history
and it is nice to have a thorough analysis.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:23:25 PM
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When my wife and I visited Virginia City last fall, we stopped in at the Delta Saloon, where they have a faro table on display that is called the Suicide Table, because several owners lost so much money operating it they committed suicide rather than face the creditors. There are several web sites that tell the story, and here is one link.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:24:40 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffAlthough its said that Faro offered such a minute house advantage that the only way a saloon would make money was to stack the deck, ...
Ethier says that too. He also alludes to other side betting that carried a much higher house edge. You'll notice everything but the "turn" bet pays even money. It would seem sucker bets would long odds, like in craps, would do well in a game like faro.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:43:57 PM
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Here's a pic of Doc playing Faro in Vegas in the 30's.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:44:56 PM
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Quote: DocWhen my wife and I visited Virginia City last fall, we stopped in at the Delta Saloon, where they have a faro table on display that is called the Suicide Table, because several owners lost so much money operating it they committed suicide rather than face the creditors. There are several web sites that tell the story, and here is one link.
I have a pic on my photobucket...
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:46:03 PM
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Quote: EvenBobHere's a pic of Doc playing Faro in Vegas in the 30's.
Naw, that's my kid brother.
May 23rd, 2012 at 6:40:29 PM
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every time I think of the game faro...I think of the scene from the movie Tombstone where Where billy Bob Thornton is dealing it and and gets smacked around by Wyatt......One of my favorite scenes from that awesome movie......
Faro Table
Faro Table
May 23rd, 2012 at 11:27:04 PM
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Here's a link to a very nicely done version you can Play for Free .
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
November 24th, 2012 at 9:57:42 AM
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November 24th, 2012 at 12:39:37 PM
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Unless there are two and one is an imposter, that Faro table shown in the photo with the article and known as the "Suicide table" was located in Virginia City when I visited there in October of last year. It was on display along with a bunch of other historic memorabilia at the Delta Saloon. Here is a link to a (copyright 2012) article about it, including a different photo. Do you think that one got moved to the museum in the Tropicana Las Vegas?
November 24th, 2012 at 12:56:36 PM
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More likely it was a reporter's whim.
If its good copy, run with it. If its accurate, so much the better.
If its good copy, run with it. If its accurate, so much the better.
November 24th, 2012 at 3:39:19 PM
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Well, I have to admit that it's plausibly the same table and just got moved. Both of the layouts have the same rounded corners and appear to be playing boards intended to rest on top of a real table. They are both displayed with bead, card-counting devices, something like an abacus, and the sign describing the suicide table in the Sun article reminds me of what I saw in Virginia City. It just seems as if the writer might have had something to say about the table having spent recent decades in a Virginia City saloon casino, if it really did.
If you follow the links in the Sun article for the Clark County Museum, even after a couple of clicks it doesn't lead to anything (that I found) that even mentions the Tropicana or the faro table being part of the collection.
If you follow the links in the Sun article for the Clark County Museum, even after a couple of clicks it doesn't lead to anything (that I found) that even mentions the Tropicana or the faro table being part of the collection.
November 24th, 2012 at 8:44:44 PM
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Quote: WizardEthier says that too. He also alludes to other side betting that carried a much higher house edge. You'll notice everything but the "turn" bet pays even money. It would seem sucker bets would long odds, like in craps, would do well in a game like faro.
Gambling was quite different in those days. One man was concerned about playing in a stiffening wind with piles of cash on the table so he took out his pistol and put it down on top of some blowing bills. The other two men in the game immediately grabbed their lapels to show they were not going for weapons and said they would give back what they had cheated him out of.
However, when it comes to Faro, I'm not certain profitability was of great concern. Most places made money on the alcohol, food, etc. that the need to show a profit on the Faro game was much lower. Gambling was generally available: foot races, horse and mule races, propositional betting, a Faro Hall was but a part of what might be available. Mining shares were traded and often some long ago "grub stake" would result in great wealth. The present day Los Angeles Times was once won in a poker game.
What later became the Comstock Lode was originally filed by three men, one of whom was "Mark Twain" but each of the three men left the proving up work to the others and so cagey miners in town refiled on that claim. Millions lost in ten days for failure to do even minor excavation. Cheating at Faro would have been equivalent to cheating at checkers today.
March 2nd, 2023 at 10:46:01 AM
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Today's Wizard of Odds newsletter is all about faro, particularly its inclusion in the Netflix movie "The Pale Blue Eye" starring Christian Bale.
As folks have mentioned in this thread, the most famous faro table is likely the "Suicide Table" in Virginia City. There's another one nearby at the Nevada State Museum in Carson City. Here's a pic!
As folks have mentioned in this thread, the most famous faro table is likely the "Suicide Table" in Virginia City. There's another one nearby at the Nevada State Museum in Carson City. Here's a pic!
Last edited by: smoothgrh on Mar 2, 2023
March 2nd, 2023 at 11:47:37 AM
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You can play faro at the Tombstone Monument Ranch but it is boring.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
March 2nd, 2023 at 12:56:16 PM
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Deleted
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
March 2nd, 2023 at 3:46:44 PM
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Quote: billryanYou can play faro at the Tombstone Monument Ranch but it is boring.
link to original post
Here I am supposedly a faro expert and I had no idea. Can you play it for real money?
I like the penny-farthings in the picture in the OP. I've been trying to get on for at least ten years.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 2nd, 2023 at 4:10:13 PM
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Quote: WizardQuote: billryanYou can play faro at the Tombstone Monument Ranch but it is boring.
link to original post
Here I am supposedly a faro expert and I had no idea. Can you play it for real money?
I like the penny-farthings in the picture in the OP. I've been trying to get on for at least ten years.
link to original post
They advertise their Faro Night all over town so I think it is. The Cochise Hotel has a faro room that they open but only for guests.
The Oriental gives free lessons a couple of times a week. That's where I played.
Last edited by: billryan on Mar 2, 2023
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
March 2nd, 2023 at 6:25:17 PM
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Faro's detractors regarded it as a dangerous scam that destroyed families and reduced men to poverty because of rampant rigging of the dealing box. Crooked faro equipment was so popular that many sporting-house companies began to supply gaffed dealing boxes specially designed so that the bankers could cheat their players; methods of cheating in faro are detailed below. Cheating was so prevalent that editions of Hoyle’s Rules of Games began their faro section by warning readers that not a single honest faro bank could be found in the United States. Criminal prosecutions of faro were involved in the Supreme Court cases of United States v. Simms, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 252 (1803),[9] and Ex parte Milburn, 34 U.S. (9 Pet.) 704 (1835).[citation needed]
Although the game became scarce after World War II, it continued to be played at a few Las Vegas and Reno casinos through 1985.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_(banking_game)
Although the game became scarce after World War II, it continued to be played at a few Las Vegas and Reno casinos through 1985.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faro_(banking_game)
March 2nd, 2023 at 7:17:31 PM
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Quote: ChumpChangeAlthough the game became scarce after World War II, it continued to be played at a few Las Vegas and Reno casinos through 1985.
link to original post
I wonder why. Except for the last three cards, isn't Faro a no-edge game? Or was there some rule like "house wins all ties" that gave the game an edge?
March 2nd, 2023 at 7:52:29 PM
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Quote: ThatDonGuyQuote: ChumpChangeAlthough the game became scarce after World War II, it continued to be played at a few Las Vegas and Reno casinos through 1985.
link to original post
I wonder why. Except for the last three cards, isn't Faro a no-edge game? Or was there some rule like "house wins all ties" that gave the game an edge?
link to original post
Yes.
If both losing and winning dealt cards are the same then player loses half his bet.
If there is only one card left such that dealing two is impossible then if players win on that denomination then player gives up $5 commission
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
March 2nd, 2023 at 7:54:48 PM
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In the class in Tombstone, the historian/instructor said he didn't think there was an honest faro box in the entire West.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
March 2nd, 2023 at 7:57:50 PM
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Quote: ThatDonGuyQuote: ChumpChangeAlthough the game became scarce after World War II, it continued to be played at a few Las Vegas and Reno casinos through 1985.
link to original post
I wonder why. Except for the last three cards, isn't Faro a no-edge game? Or was there some rule like "house wins all ties" that gave the game an edge?
link to original post
I think bank wins half on a pair.
May the cards fall in your favor.
March 2nd, 2023 at 8:25:52 PM
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Quote: WizardIn part two of my look at defunct casino games I just created a new page on faro. I especially welcome the comments of the older members (calling Buzz and Doc) who may have actually seen the game. It made it until sometime in the 1980s in Reno, and I think Vegas still had several tables as late as the 1950s.
Almost all the information in my page comes from The Doctrine of Chances by Stuart Ethier. This is a book that should be on the shelf of any gambling mathematician/historian.
link to original post
Michael Shackleford: In this video I demonstrate how to play the antiquated casino game of faro and how it made it's way into the movie The Pale Blue Eye.
THE TOP-2 Legend of New Table Games®: Stephen Au-Yeung (Casino Hold'em Poker® THE Number-1 NEW-Poker) and Geoff Hall (FREE-BET BlackJack™ THE Number-1 NEW-Blackjack) with Wizard of Odds at G2E-Vegas 2022. LegendOfNewTableGames.com
* Michael Shackleford was THE-Mathematician for Casino Hold'em Poker® back in 2000. CasinoHoldemWoO.com
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
March 3rd, 2023 at 8:13:04 AM
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Years ago I made an antique-style Faro board. It's fun to play for a little bit but it does get kind of boring. I can see why poker and other games eventually took over in popularity.
Faro is descended from an earlier game called Basseta, which has very similar rules but the players are a little more involved, so it's not quite as dull.
Faro is descended from an earlier game called Basseta, which has very similar rules but the players are a little more involved, so it's not quite as dull.
March 3rd, 2023 at 10:17:15 AM
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who has seen this movie, the pale blue eye?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
