Roulette is coming to Broward, Florida. Just don't call it roulette.

www.sun-sentinel.com[fl-roulette-laws-gambling-20120514,0,6683525.story]

Dave Miller needs to see this.....

FWIW, video roulette is also legal in MN while actual roulette (and craps) is not allowed.

If lawyers can argue that video roulette is a slot machine, I wonder if they could also win an argument that three card poker, pai gow poker, etc. are "poker" and get them into the tracks and jai-alai locations...

Can anyone tell me why its illegal in the first place?

I am guessing the answer might be 'because it is'... But hope there is some sort logic behind the ruling.

Only card-based house-banked table games are allowed at SEMINOLE Casinos, who have a state pact which grants them exclusivity for some time (or until the legislature deems otherwise), but so no tiles, no roulette, no craps (they have virtual roulette machines that do NOT have a physical/wheel ball).

The racinos only have slots and terrible VP. I know for a while Mardi Gras in Hallandale experimented with some player-backed poker variant that , and eventually dumped it in favor of approved i-tables.

I know an earlier administrative order allowed shufflemaster virtual BJ because though the odds were similar to those of regular blackjack, because an RNG determined the cards, it was determined to function similarly to a slot. This seems to be the same rationale behind the new roulette wheels as well (as long as an RNG is involved in the determination).

Then again, none of this really addresses why slots, racing, VP, poker, jai alai, and lotto is okay, but blackjack and roulette are not. I'm not sure, and in fact, a huge gambling bill died here a few months ago.

If they can call that a slot machine and get around the law, then it won't be long before the craps pop-o-matic machines appear there as well.

Some time after that, the legislature will say "screw it" and open the doors to real Roulette and craps.

Quote: Paigowdan

Dave Miller needs to see this.....

Um, I saw it.

If you read the lawyer's argument about spinning patterns, and a variable wheel/ball speed... well, you'll read the craziness of the law.

Miami Herald's brief review of Florida's Non-Roulette, Non-Craps, Non-gambling at Internet Cafes, Non-binding referrenda and Non-Frontons of Jai-Alai.

Miami Herald.

Quote: WizardofEngland

Can anyone tell me why its illegal in the first place?

I am guessing the answer might be 'because it is'... But hope there is some sort logic behind the ruling.

I missed this question the first time around.

I assume you're asking why standard roulette, with a live dealer, is illegal.

The short answer is, as you suggest, "because it is." I.E. The law allows only slots.


There are two key reasons why this machine is categorized as a slot machine, making it legal:

1 - It uses a RNG to vary the speed of the wheel as well as the speed of the ball delivery, increasing the randomness of the result. (The argument is that live dealers don't vary these items enough.)

2 - By being a machine, every bet, win and loss, can be individually tracked, and individually taxed.

Taxed... I think that is the magic word particularly in Florida where its a battle between Disney World's lobbyists and the rural old codgers who want to keep the state "Family Friendly" (ie, not compete with or dilute Disney World) versus the new money lobbyists clamoring for an end to Seminole monopolies and joining the "real world" of embracing gambling in more areas of Florida.

Meanwhile, it really is an absurdity to have 700,000 dollars donated by Internet Cafe operators some of whom sell internet access while located in a wi-fi hotspot where the people could gamble on the internet anyway.

By the argument justifying this game being a slot machine, you could easily call any game with a live dealer and cards a slot machine as well. Just have a random number generator that has anything to do with the game. For example, the shuffler (if there is one) already makes use of an RNG, therefore the game is a slot machine. Or you could use an RNG to draw a small integer and burn that many cards.

Again, my opinion, in all 50 states, is allow gambling the whole way or not at all.

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Quote: Wizard

By the argument justifying this game being a slot machine, you could easily call any game with a live dealer and cards a slot machine as well. Just have a random number generator that has anything to do with the game.

You'd have to go the extra step of tracking every bet, win and loss, for tax purposes.

But by that reasoning, I don't know why they don't have DigiDeal, utilizing live dealers and electronic betting consoles.

Ugh, call me old but I like chips, I like a dealer who interacts with the table, I like the anonymity of sitting at a table and just gaming without any tracking, or electronics, in it's purest form. The feel of those chips as I stack and restack them hours on end, the look of some people when they see a 8" high stack of black and purple are some of the sensations we enjoy at the tables. I know all dealers will be a thing of the past (except in the high limit rooms), and that day will be here soon. Technology is not always better and more and more often it's not better, only cheaper.

Nicky -

I agree with you.

But in a state that only allows slot machines, DigiDeal and other systems like it, are a reasonable alternative.

And they could be an important ice breaker to getting real table games.

" And they could be an important ice breaker to getting real table games. "

Or inhibit the same, sadly. Management would rather just plug in a machine than hire people. Machines do not belong to a union, take vacations, file age discrimination lawsuits, take maternity leave, or question management's infinite wisdom.

In those states I'll agree. Lets just hope it's not a prelude to cheaper, less personable games throughout the gaming world. I hope for as long as I game, dealers will be a fixture at the tables.

Quote: buzzpaff

" And they could be an important ice breaker to getting real table games. "

Or inhibit the same, sadly. Management would rather just plug in a machine than hire people. Machines do not belong to a union, take vacations, file age discrimination lawsuits, take maternity leave, or question management's infinite wisdom.

It's up to us to make sure casinos understand how much more enjoyable tables are with dealers, pit bosses and socializing with other players.

Quote: Wizard

Again, my opinion, in all 50 states, is allow gambling the whole way or not at all.

Seems simplest, but revenue hungry state treasuries can't get past the political process of dealing with entrenched interests and attempts to control the tax revenue. Look at the hypocritical but historically common theme: the first gambling allowed is a state lottery which gives the players the absolutely worst deal imaginable or else its Bingo under various charity and religious guises which usually means a corrupted version steeply stacked against the players.

Trying to legislate tobacco taxes only leads to interstate cigarette smuggling and it appears trying to halt gambling at a state's border is just about as ineffective as any measure could be.

So now we have immensely wealthy Indian tribes that are often more cults or fictions created by lawyers. Even in Florida where the Seminoles do run the gambling and really are an Indian tribe, they have a de-facto monopoly and are raking in unbelievable cash and restructuring their casinos to make treks to Vegas an archaic practice.

Quote: buzzpaff

Management would rather just plug in a machine than hire people. Machines do not belong to a union, take vacations, file age discrimination lawsuits, take maternity leave, or question management's infinite wisdom.

True, but employees also pay income tax, etc.

And in some states, the tax rate on slot machines is so high that the managemet prefers the real tables. That was the scenario in Pennsylvania, which originally had slots, then TableMasters, now regular tables.