Open Card Counting Tables and Casino Standardization
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 | 7 votes (43.75%) | ||
| | 9 votes (56.25%) |
16 members have voted
September 16th, 2011 at 5:18:06 PM
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Quote: avargovI recall something about you not gambling, that you only play when you have a guaranteed win. I guess that is why you talk so much, you never step foot in a casino.
Thats true, I never gamble. Yet I play at the
casino 3-4 times a week. Odd, huh. I was
just there today and will be there Sunday.
Don't hurt yourself trying to figure it out.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 16th, 2011 at 5:23:26 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanIf such an idea takes off...To give up the idea of cover if it is no longer needed.
The idea being making the game at the counters
table a 0.00% edge game if you count perfectly,
as you stated? I'll ask you again, Dan, because you're
ignoring the question. If you can't win long term,
whats the point of any good counter playing at
such a table? I can see it being a training area for
newbies, but who wants to play a restricted game
where all you can do is break even.
Ya know?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 16th, 2011 at 6:24:39 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThats true, I never gamble. Yet I play at the
casino 3-4 times a week. Odd, huh. I was
just there today and will be there Sunday.
Don't hurt yourself trying to figure it out.
Don't worry Bob, I won't. Now don't hurt yourself cleaning those ashtrays, I know SSI doesn't pay all the bills. 3 or 4 times a week my fucking ass, do they give seniors free play that much?
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
September 16th, 2011 at 6:33:34 PM
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Quote: avargov3 or 4 times a week my fucking ass,
LOL, I warned you about trying to figure it out.
If you don't think about it, you'll stop worrying.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 16th, 2011 at 9:09:29 PM
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Back from school , but it looks like I did not miss anything. The frustrated old man is still ranting on about counters. I don't know
who I detest more, Counters who think the casinos owe them a living or dealer who think I am a cheater is I use my brain to make
a decision on how much to bet on a hand of Blackjack.
Just cut to the chase DAN, remove 4 tens from the deck, add 4 deuces . and have a Dealer BJ pay 3 to 1. Then say " Look COUNTERS, you can not beat my Blackjack. The fact of the matter is that counter can beat the game as it is played today. And yes the casinos
have the right to refuse a counter's action and back him off. A counter's winning ultimately affects a casino's ability to pay it's owner's a fair return on their investment, employee's salaries , etc. Plus counter's don't tip dealers. They see dealers as the enemy.
All that being said, if you call me a cheater again for counting, I will take it personal.
who I detest more, Counters who think the casinos owe them a living or dealer who think I am a cheater is I use my brain to make
a decision on how much to bet on a hand of Blackjack.
Just cut to the chase DAN, remove 4 tens from the deck, add 4 deuces . and have a Dealer BJ pay 3 to 1. Then say " Look COUNTERS, you can not beat my Blackjack. The fact of the matter is that counter can beat the game as it is played today. And yes the casinos
have the right to refuse a counter's action and back him off. A counter's winning ultimately affects a casino's ability to pay it's owner's a fair return on their investment, employee's salaries , etc. Plus counter's don't tip dealers. They see dealers as the enemy.
All that being said, if you call me a cheater again for counting, I will take it personal.
September 16th, 2011 at 9:34:06 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffAll that being said, if you call me a cheater again for counting, I will take it personal.
You shouldn't take it personally, and here's why.
Casinos are psychologically flawed in the way
they look at things, in a way they have a mental
illness. They really truly believe that as soon as
you walk thru their doors, all the money you have
on you and all the money you have in your bank
account is rightfully theirs, if they can just get you
to give it to them. And they try really really hard
to do that. The more innocent and naive you are,
the easier it is for them. They hate knowledgeable
players, and they especially hate players that can
beat one of their games because they're 'cheating'
the casino out of what they believe in their heart
of hearts belongs to them.
You might think I'm exaggerating, but I'm deadly
serious. When you enter the casino, they think
you've agreed to play by their rules and their rules
only, and their game is, to get as much of your money
as is humanly possible. Many pit people consider
regular winners as cheating them out of whats
theirs, and they resent the hell out of them. You
can't fight or argue with people who have a mental
impairment, like the casino does. All you can do is
play your game, keep to your own business, and
quietly leave with a profit. And hope they don't
notice you...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 16th, 2011 at 9:56:28 PM
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Bob,
You have a very, very paranoid view of casinos.
Firstly, They're just entertainment businesses, like cinemas and shows and what have you.
Secondly, you do agree to and abide by their house rules when you're in their house, as you would any other business establishments.
To build them up into some sort of evil empire is a little nutty.
You have a very, very paranoid view of casinos.
Firstly, They're just entertainment businesses, like cinemas and shows and what have you.
Secondly, you do agree to and abide by their house rules when you're in their house, as you would any other business establishments.
To build them up into some sort of evil empire is a little nutty.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2011 at 10:00:51 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanBob,
You have a very, very paranoid view of casinos.
Firstly, They're just entertainment businesses, like cinemas and shows and what have you.
Secondly, you do agree to and abide by their house rules when you're in their house, as you would any other business establishments.
To build them up into some sort of evil empire is a little nutty.
I'm not commenting on whether or not Bob is paranoid, but I also don't think you can say that they're "just" entertainment businesses.
There's a vibe at casinos that just doesn't exist at other entertainment businesses. I think you said a dealer CANNOT have a criminal history; I think movie theater employees can. There's an extra security vibe or whatever that's hard to describe that's not at other entertainment businesses.
They're more than just "entertainment," although I think they're more that way than they were, say, in the 70s. Although I couldn't say what the "more" is, so that's an interesting question.
September 16th, 2011 at 10:12:53 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanBob,
You have a very, very paranoid view of casinos.
Firstly, They're just entertainment businesses
Paranoid? Hardly. Realistic is more like it. They
claim to be entertainment, "Have fun while we
take your money." Is their bottom line 'how many
people did we entertain this week'? I don't think
so. Steve Wynn said it best a couple years ago.
He said the math of the games offered in his
casinos guarantee's him a certain percentage
of profit from the money wagered. And his job
was to get as many people thru his doors as
humanly possible, so the math could work its
magic. His primary objective is to separate as
much cash as he can from the players under
his roof in the shortest amount of time possible,
so they can be replaced by new suckers, er,
players. This attitude is unique in business. If
I own a grocery store, I want to give people
value for their money, so they return again
and again, and happily so. A casinos job is
to trick people with comps and cheap rooms,
and in Vegas, free booze,making them think
they're getting value, when in fact they're getting
fleeced. I wouldn't work in a casino if they paid
$50 an hour, but I will play there. But I refuse to
play any of their offered games. I bring my own
and always forget to tell them...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 16th, 2011 at 10:22:37 PM
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Quote: ItsCalledSoccerThey're more than just "entertainment," although I think they're more that way than they were, say, in the 70s. Although I couldn't say what the "more"
I'll tell what the 'more' is, its surveillance and paranoia.
In the 70's, cameras were in their infancy in casinos,
many still had catwalks and two way ceiling mirrors well
into the 80's. In the 70's, I never felt the scrutiny from
the pit that I feel now. I don't mean at me, but at everybody.
Now I have to constantly explain why I don't have a player card
and why I don't want one. In the 70's, if there were cards,
I wasn't aware of it. Casinos felt friendly in the 70's, now
they feel, well, antsy or something. Like the bottom line
is always on their minds now...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 16th, 2011 at 10:46:47 PM
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Quote: PaigowDanFirstly, they're just entertainment businesses, like cinemas and shows and what have you.
For a large part of the gambling population, that's exactly what it is. Put money in a slot machine, and they take, on average 15% to 1% of your money. For that, drinks are free, there's music, entertainment, eye candy, decent restaurants nearby, and they leave at the end of the night, and come back once a while or so, as a form of entertinament.
For a smaller but significant part of the gambling population, the lights, chips, excitement, and the chance of winning are a little more insidious. Studies show that about 5% of gamblers contribute 35% of a casino's revenue, so without the 1 of 20 problem gamblers, casinos would make much less money. This is the addiction side of the equation that EvenBob's talking about.
If it was all about entertainment, why does a casino do everything possible to keep you there? Where are the clocks? Why are the floors so colorful? Why do slot machines make the sounds and lights the way they do? Why the frequent gambling cards and offers? It's about making a gambler a habitual gambler and then eventually a problem gambler. Yes, there probably are movie buffs and people who have to golf every day, but they don't ruin their lives doing that. And the casinos do very little to stop them, nor in my opinion, should they. But they exist because the casino makes the product addictive in order to increase revenue.
Back to the issue at hand: your game design won't work. People can share the count with each other. The table will be empty as soon as the count goes <0 and full as soon as it goes >1. You have to build the game with some standard rules that will increase the edge to accomodate the loss expectation due to counting. To me, it's just another variation. No serious counter will play that game; the stakes are too low. What you will get are the amateurs who will only become better.
The casino's job continue: flat bet / short shuffle (don't back off) the counters and let the others who think they can count or those who are counting who are getting unlucky in the short run play.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 16th, 2011 at 11:10:19 PM
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On the game idea, I would have assumed the would have dropped to min bet, as the negative count does equate strongly with losing, and the positive count not that greatly with winning - just tendencies. If we spend our time excessively "Wonging," we'd just be running around non-stop.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 16th, 2011 at 11:40:27 PM
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Quote: boymimboIf it was all about entertainment, why does a casino do everything possible to keep you there? Where are the clocks? Why are the floors so colorful? Why do slot machines make the sounds and lights the way they do? Why the frequent gambling cards and offers? It's about making a gambler a habitual gambler and then eventually a problem gambler.
Thats pretty much it. Back in the day, they referred to
them as 'casino oriented' players, in other words they
were hooked. Getting as many people hooked is the
casinos ultimate job. You notice I never say if this is
good or bad, it just is. And if you're going to deal with
casinos of a regular basis, as a player or an employee,
you need to be very well aware of their true stripes.
Greed runs everything in the gambling world. You can
be a part of it, or you can stand apart from it and still
be a part of that world. But never kid yourself about
whats really going on.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 5:07:48 AM
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I guess I get all the "fairness" and "level playing field" stuff that is being presented regarding the evil card counters and how to handle them, but why don't we all make sure we remember the things EvenBob mentions above--the casinos are out to take our money. There is a reputed Benny Binion quote that covers it:
"Our job isn't done until the customer's last check to us bounces."
Yep. Fairness? Level playing field? The casino is trying to get every penny it can get from every player. I like certain casinos but they are not my friends...I give them the opportunity to win my money BUT it is unfair if they are allowed to bar a player for using his mind to make a better bet.
Would I play on a table that displayed the count? Yes. Why? So that I could learn to count. I learn better when I see the whole picture and a table like that would certainly provide it. I would then take that information and use it to make better bets with my entertainment dollar. Then the casino might get less of them and I might even win some sessions...
"Our job isn't done until the customer's last check to us bounces."
Yep. Fairness? Level playing field? The casino is trying to get every penny it can get from every player. I like certain casinos but they are not my friends...I give them the opportunity to win my money BUT it is unfair if they are allowed to bar a player for using his mind to make a better bet.
Would I play on a table that displayed the count? Yes. Why? So that I could learn to count. I learn better when I see the whole picture and a table like that would certainly provide it. I would then take that information and use it to make better bets with my entertainment dollar. Then the casino might get less of them and I might even win some sessions...
September 17th, 2011 at 6:31:33 AM
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Binion was a thug. So were all the casino operators back in the day. But now it is corporate greed, just like wall st., or walmart, or the oil companies, or any other business, and the government.
You pay for the entertainment, as well as all the perqs we used to get for free. Wynn made cost centers turn into profit centers. Hotel, food, blahblah.
Casinos are not evil, only greedy like every other business.
You pay for the entertainment, as well as all the perqs we used to get for free. Wynn made cost centers turn into profit centers. Hotel, food, blahblah.
Casinos are not evil, only greedy like every other business.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
September 17th, 2011 at 9:01:25 AM
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Quote: avargovCasinos are not evil, only greedy like every other business.
All businesses seek profit - or should, to survive.
Calling them successful or greedy is really just POV. True?
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:07:11 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanAll businesses seek profit - or should, to survive.
Calling them successful or greedy is really just POV. True?
On the surface Dan, yes. However, it gets out hand in some industries. I do not believe casinos fall into the out of hand category.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
September 17th, 2011 at 9:51:14 AM
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Quote: avargovOn the surface Dan, yes. However, it gets out hand in some industries. I do not believe casinos fall into the out of hand category.
Of course, one can argue that the mega-corp casinos are out of hand when they hand out Millions in bonus money to execs, while they sweat the granny with the $2 voucher or the break even counter. Unfortunately, business all will gravitate to trying to make the most money possible. Not saying it's horrible, that's why they exist, but sometimes when the CEO makes millions and yet the company is bleeding in the red, why should that be rewarded?
-B
September 17th, 2011 at 11:02:04 AM
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All businesses do seek profit. Casinos operate within the law. They are regulated. By extension, if the casinos are evil, the government that regulates them is as well (i don't think folks here will object to that). And because the governments rely so much on the revenue that the casinos provide, they're stuck between allowing them to earn a revenue and giving players a fair shake.
Up in Canada, drinks are sold for full price. You can't get drunk without paying at least $40 to do so (I'm a cheap drunk). In British Columbia casinos, they have clocks everywhere. Even each slot machine display the time and give active messages about problem gambling. In British Columbia casinos, you have to go to the bar to get a drink, they don't actively sell drinks at the table. Those are two major controls to reduce problem gambling.
When times are good, casinos don't have a problem making money. Look at how great the casinos were doing prior to the downturn. Then, MGM overcapitalized with its gigaproject and lost. Echelon didn't get built. Fontainebleau didn't get built. That's economics. Some casinos should die, just like businesses die.
I'm neutral on the issue as well.
Up in Canada, drinks are sold for full price. You can't get drunk without paying at least $40 to do so (I'm a cheap drunk). In British Columbia casinos, they have clocks everywhere. Even each slot machine display the time and give active messages about problem gambling. In British Columbia casinos, you have to go to the bar to get a drink, they don't actively sell drinks at the table. Those are two major controls to reduce problem gambling.
When times are good, casinos don't have a problem making money. Look at how great the casinos were doing prior to the downturn. Then, MGM overcapitalized with its gigaproject and lost. Echelon didn't get built. Fontainebleau didn't get built. That's economics. Some casinos should die, just like businesses die.
I'm neutral on the issue as well.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
September 17th, 2011 at 11:21:46 AM
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Quote: boymimboBy extension, if the casinos are evil, the government that regulates them is as well (i don't think folks here will object to that).
Another way to view it is if casinos were not evil, they would not need to be regulated. They are the "necessary evil", thus the (non-evil) government has to regulate.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
September 17th, 2011 at 12:42:26 PM
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Quote: RonCI guess I get all the "fairness" and "level playing field" stuff that is being presented regarding the evil card counters
This conversation turned towards evil casinos when I was talking about evil card counters (if you believe that point of view...). My point was that the casinos are trying to take every dollar they can from us; why is it so dastardly of a deed to use the brain to gain a little of the house edge back.
That is why I would play on a open counting table with the count showing...to learn more about counting.
I don't think all casinos are 'evil"...I do think they exist to extract as much cash as they can....
September 17th, 2011 at 2:32:11 PM
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Quote: RonCI don't think all casinos are 'evil"...I do think they exist to extract as much cash as they can....
When the Nevada gaming commission was established
in the 50's, they found that every game in every NV
casino was rigged. Gaffed wheels, loaded dice, short
decks, house cheating dealers, fixed poker games,
slots that never paid off. It was the Mob that owned all
the casinos, but does anybody think if it wasn't so
tightly regulated today that it wouldn't still be going on?
In the book Gambling Wizards, one of the well known
players tells of how in the 80's and 90's he was a big
time player who lost and won millions. He was friends
with casino managers and even a couple of owners.
They would go on trips together, have dinner at each
others houses, their families would get together at
Christmas. This went on for years, he considered these
people his best friends. Then he changed his game
and started winning more than losing and every single
one of his 'friends' turned on him. He was shocked,
saddened and dismayed. But the veil was lifted from
his eyes and he saw them for the greedy, lying, two
faced people they were. All they ever wanted was his
money, they didn't give two shits about him as a person.
Now he says it delights him to take as much as he can
from them, the casinos, because he knows how much
it irritates them.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 3:05:11 PM
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The UK had standard rules - in particular the bonus DOES pay on a losing hand. The cloths presumably say "Ante bonus pays...", so not sure how other casinos can't pay.Quote: Paigowdan7. Three-card poker: PAY the ANTE bonus on a straight or better even if the player hand loses!
Reference 5.16 b ii in http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/rules%20of%20casino%20games%20in%20great%20britain%20-%20june%202011.pdf
September 17th, 2011 at 5:12:15 PM
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Quote: toastcmuOf course, one can argue that the mega-corp casinos are out of hand when they hand out Millions in bonus money to execs, while they sweat the granny with the $2 voucher or the break even counter. Unfortunately, business all will gravitate to trying to make the most money possible.
1. For higher execs, the bonuses are tied to performance. If an exec of great importance does a great job for the outfit, he might be entitled to profit sharing, particularly if he made it happen.
2. Casinos don't sweat the small stuff. They may sweat the big whale who could bust a bank.
3. There should be no or little sweating in the pit area (table games section.) Pit bosses who painfully sweat in that local table games area just become subliminally or openly hotile and abusive to innocent players and dealers, and show their ignorance of mathematical variance. Either you trust the math of the games - or you trust old-school superstitious B.S.! Dice get hot, Royal flushes are dealt, and cards hit streaks that players may have pressed up. Good for the players (if they are gracious and not arrogant about it)! As far as I am concerned, bosses who sweat the small stuff and the normal stuff are giving themselves the punishment they deserve.
Quote: toastcmuNot saying it's horrible, that's why they exist, but sometimes when the CEO makes millions and yet the company is bleeding in the red, why should that be rewarded?
Now THAT I agree with! - The carrot goes along with the stick!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 6:00:25 PM
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IDEA from Stanley K. on this -
Keeping players in the game on negative counts, and to reduce Wonging:
1. To roughly make Blackjacks pay 2:1 when the count is 0 or less, and
2. to make Blackjacks play even money when > 0
3. Do this by paying player Blackjacks 2:1 on a dealer's up card of 6 or less (7 or less?), and pay even money on 8 or higher.
This would roughly correspond to the count, and follow the count.
The blackjacks would average out to 3:2, - and as they would normally pay out.
Keeping players in the game on negative counts, and to reduce Wonging:
1. To roughly make Blackjacks pay 2:1 when the count is 0 or less, and
2. to make Blackjacks play even money when > 0
3. Do this by paying player Blackjacks 2:1 on a dealer's up card of 6 or less (7 or less?), and pay even money on 8 or higher.
This would roughly correspond to the count, and follow the count.
The blackjacks would average out to 3:2, - and as they would normally pay out.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 6:55:32 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
3. Do this by paying player Blackjacks 2:1 on a dealer's up card of 6 or less (7 or less?), and pay even money on 8 or higher.
This would roughly correspond to the count, and follow the count.
Nice .. Yet another way to make the game uncountable. If BJ pays even money at high counts, that just means that most (likely, all) of the advantage of the high count is gone. There is no reason to raise your bet. There is no reason to count to begin with.
Not that it is necessarily bad (there are many games that are uncountable, but still fun), it just goes against the spirit of your idea of having a special table to accommodate counters.
If the expected value is roughly the same at high count and low count, one would truly have to be either an idiot or autistic to count cards in such a game.
And no, it does not average to 3:2. There are 6 cards that are 7 or less, and 7 cards that are not. The average payout is therefore going to be (2*6 + 1*7)/13 = 1.46 or 2.92 : 2. Of course, many people will simply believe a dealer when he explains that the average is 3:2, and play happily to further the satisfaction of the house. So typical ...
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
September 17th, 2011 at 7:01:45 PM
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Quote: weaselmanIf BJ pays even money at high counts, that just means that most (if not all) of the advantage of the high count is gone. There is no reason to raise your bet. There is no reason to count to begin with.
I think thats Dan's objective, isn't it?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 7:04:07 PM
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Quote: EvenBobI think thats Dan's objective, isn't it?
I thought his objective was to create a table for card counters.
If the objective is to simply make an uncountable blackjack game, the solution is simple, and well-known - just install a CSM.
The casinos will not do that though, because they don't want to lose income attributable to counters.
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
September 17th, 2011 at 7:14:31 PM
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Quote: weaselmanI thought his objective was to create a table for card counters.
.
But the only way to do that is to change the rules
so counting becomes useless. Or have the max bet
so low you can't make any money. Either way, its
pointless to count under such circumstances.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 8:17:22 PM
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Quote: weaselmanI thought his objective was to create a table for card counters.
If the objective is to simply make an uncountable blackjack game, the solution is simple, and well-known - just install a CSM.
The casinos will not do that though, because they don't want to lose income attributable to counters.
Correct.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:28:45 PM
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Dan, it's past your bedtime. You know you are grouchy if you don't get 8 hours sleep. No, make that grouchier.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:30:25 PM
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Trivia Qiestion. On Sesame street we all know Oscar the Grouch was named after Dan Lubin. From what movie did the characters Bert and Ernie get their names ???
September 17th, 2011 at 9:26:00 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffTrivia Qiestion. On Sesame street we all know Oscar the Grouch was named after Dan Lubin. From what movie did the characters Bert and Ernie get their names ???
Buzz, I'm really not a grouch - I like a lot of people, treat 'em well, and smile authentically quite often.
But the theives, and shot takers, and many others, I may speak very unkindly about.
If you met me, you would not believe it.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:32:57 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
But the theives, and shot takers, and many others,
Know a lot of thieves, do you? What kind of thieves. I don't
know any.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2011 at 10:47:58 PM
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Quote: EvenBobKnow a lot of thieves, do you? What kind of thieves. I don't
know any.
There are some people who take other people's chips at a table; there are people who take other people's seemingly unattended items when they are mesmerized at a slot machine. You'd have to be very naive or inexperienced as far as casinos are concerned not to have hear of this or are unaware of this...
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 17th, 2011 at 11:09:01 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanYou'd have to be very naive or inexperienced as far as casinos are concerned not to have hear of this or are unaware of this...
In 35 years of going to casinos, I've never seen it. I see
it on TV, but it must not happen often, I've never even
seen somebody arrested in a casino. I've seen them
arrested at Target and Home Depot, never in a casino.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 2:08:00 AM
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Quote: buzzpaffTrivia Qiestion. On Sesame street we all know Oscar the Grouch was named after Dan Lubin. From what movie did the characters Bert and Ernie get their names ???
It's a Wonderful Life! Ernie and Bert I believe were the mailman and policeman.
Quote: Paigowdan4. Open and Honest Card Counting Policy without lying about it: "IF YOU ARE BELIEVED TO BE RUNNING DOWN A DECK, MANAGEMENT RESERVES THE RIGHT TO FLAT-BET YOU, - OR ASK YOU TO GO TO THE CSM or COUNTERS' BLACKJACK TABLE WITHOUT APOLOGY. NO HARD FEELINGS, NO ARGUMENTS - JUST BUSINESS."
That is already how they usually do it. Most of the time they will be gentlemanly about it, saying it nicely, and throw in a compliment on your play. I estimate about 25% will be rather nasty about it, making you feel unwelcome to return at all.
Quote: Paigowdan5. Actually Having an open card-counters' table: Double-Deck, 60% penetration, $5-$25, Double on 10 or 11, Split up to two hands, DAS if 10/11. Count you ass off! Make the game 0.0% house edge if you are counting perfectly - like 100% pay slots, - which we also have....
My educated guess is that you would have to go a lot further than they above. It was a long time ago, but I think you would have to at least pay even money on blackjacks. Counters would just sit there and wait until a +6 true count, or whatever they needed to overcome the rules, and then push in a max bet. Anyone with card counting software like Casino Verité should be able to come up with a more specific answer.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
September 18th, 2011 at 2:32:59 AM
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See the new thread on a full-featured non-countable version of Blackjack, "2 thru 7" Blackjack.
Somebody did it.
We know him.
Somebody did it.
We know him.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 18th, 2011 at 2:39:54 AM
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Quote: EvenBobIn 35 years of going to casinos, I've never seen it. I see
it on TV, but it must not happen often, I've never even
seen somebody arrested in a casino. I've seen them
arrested at Target and Home Depot, never in a casino.
There's a whole TV series on true TV of Las Vegas police actions on the strip.
We see it all the time. I actually had one last night dealing EZ pg trying to take shots (and I couldn't believe it - on Pai Gow?? And tonight, on dice everyone was an angel...there are nights like that, too.)
Bob - Are you too busy cleaning ashtrays or something? Do you work in maintenance fixing the boiler, or in the back kichten for food service operations? What DO you do at the casino?...
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 18th, 2011 at 2:45:10 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanWhat DO you do at the casino?...
I spend as little time there as humanly possible. I make
my daily goal and split. I leave the sucking up of
that wonderful casino ambiance to you and the other
'casino oriented' losers, er, players and dealers..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 3:02:57 AM
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Bob,
That doesn't answer the question: "What do YOU do in the casino?"
Work? Play?
What is "that daily goal of your" that you talk about....
$1,000 a day? $500 a day?
Scooping up enough left over .25c cash out tickets to make the monthly trailer park rental on your single-wide without getting busted by surveillance and security?
You're not giving us details, really....Forgive me for sounding grouchy, I'm just curious
That doesn't answer the question: "What do YOU do in the casino?"
Work? Play?
What is "that daily goal of your" that you talk about....
$1,000 a day? $500 a day?
Scooping up enough left over .25c cash out tickets to make the monthly trailer park rental on your single-wide without getting busted by surveillance and security?
You're not giving us details, really....Forgive me for sounding grouchy, I'm just curious
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 18th, 2011 at 3:28:14 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanBob,That doesn't answer the question: "What do YOU do in the casino?"Work? Play?
Play is work, work is play, if you
get my drift. Think about that..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 18th, 2011 at 4:14:49 AM
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Bob,
We don't get your drift. You are just remaining evasive, and cleaning ashtrays at Jokers Wild.
We don't get your drift. You are just remaining evasive, and cleaning ashtrays at Jokers Wild.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
September 18th, 2011 at 4:47:35 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanBob,
We don't get your drift. You are just remaining evasive, and cleaning ashtrays at Jokers Wild.
Another insult from the self proclaimed nice guy who says he likes everyone.
September 18th, 2011 at 4:52:43 AM
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I do like everyone. I complain about them, though, as we all complain about the quirks of others.
Even if I give them a very friendly poke in the eye as a kiss from time to time, as I take it myself, a we can see by your above post.
We've been very patient and gracious with Bob, - and with me, too.
I myself take it happily. I'm still around.
And I think Bob is man enough to finally tell of his real experience, which he refuses to do.
Bob - where do you work - and what do you really do?
Even if I give them a very friendly poke in the eye as a kiss from time to time, as I take it myself, a we can see by your above post.
We've been very patient and gracious with Bob, - and with me, too.
I myself take it happily. I'm still around.
And I think Bob is man enough to finally tell of his real experience, which he refuses to do.
Bob - where do you work - and what do you really do?
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
