Lucky
Lucky
Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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September 20th, 2011 at 10:54:37 PM permalink
Attn: boymimbo

"- 1st action: you are not dealt a "stiff hand". The dealer action is to what "push back" the stiff bet at the start of the deal. if the bet remains up, then the dealer will have to calculate whether the hand dealt was stiff at the start of the hand.
-2nd action: determining what the dealer's up card is. Some dealers put the down card to the left of the up card, others to the right. You could find an argument as to what the up card was.
-3rd action: taking away the stiff bet when the player busts. Easy enough, happens on streak.
-4th action: the calculation and payout itself. Lose, Push, 2, 5, or 9 to one. Too many payout values based on the combination of dealer up card and player cards."

I realize my linked page provided limited information, but the dealing procedures are not as complicated as stated above:

Action 1: After the initial deal, Stiff bet is taken (lost) if it is not a stiff or blackjack; a blackjack is paid; a stiff remains up (qualifies).

Action 2: Player completes hand; if dealer up card is 7 or higher, qualified player wins if he hits to a pat hand and loses if he busts or stands on a hand totaling less than 17. The bet is taken or paid the 'high side' payout (5:1 or higher) at that point (cleared). No confusion as to what the up card is since dealer has yet to act.

Action 3: Dealer completes hand; if stiff bet is still up, player wins and is paid the 'low side' payout (2:1) if he beats the dealer (generally meaning dealer busts), pushes if he ties the dealer (rare), and loses if dealer makes a hand (higher than player).

So there is one additional settlement point beyond that after the initial deal - after the player completes hand (Action 2) OR after the dealer completes hand (Action 3).

You have a good point about players who never hit 15 or 16 against a dealer's 7-A; they might not like being 'forced' to follow BS. I've considered this, believe me.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
Lucky
Lucky
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September 20th, 2011 at 11:13:01 PM permalink
Attn: Paradigm and buzzpaff

Good advice on what to emphasize and what not to emphasize on the rack card. You convinced me - highlight the qualification/hit rates and ditch any mention of BS. Can't do much about explaining a stiff hand, though, other than defining it as a hard 12, 13, 14, 15 or 16. Players who don't understand that just need to make their bet and trust the dealer to settle it correctly.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
boymimbo
boymimbo
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September 21st, 2011 at 12:28:22 AM permalink
Ah, so if you don't get a stiff hand, you lose the bet? That wasn't obvious to me in the instructions.

i still don't like the decision point required between action 2 and 3. Dealer will have to learn when to act, which is after the player completes hand if 7-A is showing and, after dealer completes hand when a 2-6 is showing. Too confusing, in my opinion.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Lucky
Lucky
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September 21st, 2011 at 5:28:39 AM permalink
Yes, you lose the Lucky Stiff bet if you don't get a stiff hand or blackjack on the deal.

As to the dealer, I believe most BJ are always aware of the upcard as players are completing their hands. I may be wrong, but the only confusion I foresee on the dealer's part is perhaps in those rare occasions when a player will correctly hit with a stiff (e.g, a 12) against a stiff (dealer 2), get a 17 or higher without busting, and dealer mistakenly pays for a "high side" win instead of letting the bet stand to be settled at the end of the game. That situation needs to be addressed in the dealer training.
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 21st, 2011 at 6:51:58 AM permalink
Was gonna suggest you poll 20 friends or co-workers , those who have not helped you so far, ask if they ever played BJ in a casino, and then ask what a stiff hand was. And when you should split 77 in basic strategy. Glad you have seen the light. I mean posters here are not just firing for effect, but to help you !
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 21st, 2011 at 6:53:45 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Ah, so if you don't get a stiff hand, you lose the bet? That wasn't obvious to me in the instructions.

i still don't like the decision point required between action 2 and 3. Dealer will have to learn when to act, which is after the player completes hand if 7-A is showing and, after dealer completes hand when a 2-6 is showing. Too confusing, in my opinion.



Same here about losing the bet. Plus, if the dealers do not like the game, YOU ARE DOA !
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 21st, 2011 at 7:17:14 AM permalink
" Players who don't understand that just need to make their bet and trust the dealer to settle it correctly. " You will find that players do not feel a need to play any side bet !
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 21st, 2011 at 7:21:02 AM permalink
Headed to take daughter to College and grand daughter to dead beat dad for his 2 days. Also have class later myself. So will sum up my opinion. I know it's just mine, but it's the only one I have got.
Whether it's a side bet or companion make's no difference.
I fear you have developed a chess type game for checker players. Great idea, wrong market.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
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September 21st, 2011 at 10:19:02 AM permalink
..,,,
boymimbo
boymimbo
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September 21st, 2011 at 10:45:01 AM permalink
Right, Lucky... I'm here to give you some objective advice, not to poo-poo on your idea. I've seen a few issues that make your idea problematical (multiple decision points). I've suggested a way to better the game (remove a qualification step - the game only is live if you have a STIFF hand and the dealer has a 7-A up). It's not a bad idea, but with the plethora of side-bets out there for Blackjack, yours is on the complex end with a very low HE that I don't think casinos will buy into when there are other side bets out there with wider adoption, greater player acceptance, with higher house edge. If you want casinos to adopt, increase the HE by lowering the payouts, offer more thrill for the player when they hit to 21 (much higher payout).

Sorry that I feel that way.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

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