UTH complete bet

I have a question. How does the house edge change if I play on a table where people don't 4-bet pre-flop combinations like AT (and similar strong hands) and I bet it for them with the fact that the moment they decide to call (2x on the flop or 1x on the river) so they give it back to me and I win only the over.

What is the best strategy for this? In this case, does the preflop range change if I don't have to pay the blind and ante but someone else pays it instead of me?

Is this strategy even worth it? Is it possible to beat the house edge like this?

Thank you :)

I thought about this. It depends on what hand your neighbor is holding. Some hands are negative EV even if basic strategy dictates a 4x raise. Player is forced to make a decision.

We can think of this situation as two players against one house. One player is wiser than the other. If putting them together, they will lose. However, at the cost of the dumber losing more than he should, it’s possible for the the other to gain some edge.

Ideally, the preflop hand should be good enough that there is no chance that folding on the river would ever be optimum.

For example: If the hand is 33 pair (which I realize is marginal for a 4X preflop bet), the board might come 762-76 and your pair of threes are simply the worst possible hand anyone could hold. With this board and this run-out, if player had checked preflop then he might have checked postflop and then would have certainly folded on the river.

Even with a starting hand of AhQh, and a disastrous board like Td9d5c-8d7d you are a favorite to lose and have deprived the original player of his chance to fold the river. So,if you do lose, you may need to re-create what the player would have done with the postflop and river decisions if he had checked the preflop.

Or, if the preflop hand is AK and you raise 4X for the timid player and then the flop is AAA you have now deprived the player of the chance to raise 2X with his own money.

Basically, what I am saying is that by raising 4X you are depriving the player of the opportunity to make decisions with more information later in the hand.

I know somebody who plays with a couple he has charmed, that allows him to do this. Definitely +EV, he says, and is someone capable of figuring that out

Note that this is a situation that can go away quickly. Having them decide they are having the 2x decision taken away* would be one way it could get sour, yes. And other ways.

* PS however he seemed to be saying it was the 3x decision when of course 4x was the thing to do ... if so the 3x bet is sealing away any 'options' to complain about later

Quote: gordonm888

Basically, what I am saying is that by raising 4X you are depriving the player of the opportunity to make decisions with more information later in the hand.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding here. Of course, they can decide whether to bet on the flop or the river. If they decide that they do, they just give me a 2x bet (after the flop) or 1x (after the river).

Example: The player have AT, does not want to bet before the flop. I will give 4x 5$ for him = 20$. A72 comes on the flop. The player decides to bet 2x. He gives me $10. Turn 4, River A. The player wins another $20 from the bet. He gives me $10 and $10 is his. I invested $10 in total to win another $10 on AT cards.

Second option: The player calls 3x before the flop. I will ask him if I can call up to 4x. So I invest $5 to win another $5.

I would just be interested in how it works from the house edge point of view. Because I thought that the advantage of the casino lies in the ante + blind. Well, since I'm not paying it in this case, it could be +EV

This is clearly +EV. I don’t know how you would calculate by how much without knowing the strategy the other player uses to bet 4x, 3x, 2x and 1x on the play bet.

Quote: unJon

This is clearly +EV. I don’t know how you would calculate by how much without knowing the strategy the other player uses to bet 4x, 3x, 2x and 1x on the play bet.
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I still think the only practical involvement with someone else's hand is to provide the chips for a 4x bet when that player just can't make themselves bet other than 3x unless he has Aces or something... and you see that all the time. Once he bets 3x, he is done, he has already taken away all other options and has nothing to complain about. Yes, you could disagree about whether it was time to bet 2x or not, or 1x, but that kind of involvement is a little nuts if you ask me.

Agree. The winning amount includes three parts, ante, blind, and play, so the calculation is really complicated.

I’m looking for an online calculator that is able to deal out two or more player hands a time. Is there such a thing?