Poll

7 votes (19.44%)
10 votes (27.77%)
15 votes (41.66%)
4 votes (11.11%)

36 members have voted

DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 11:19:33 PM permalink
Why would he who speaks the truth get suspended? Only trolls should get suspended even if their IQ is 190 (cough)
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 24th, 2010 at 11:41:17 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Doc

I can't believe it -- we have yet another member actually trying to get suspended.



Fortunately, Martin can support his claim with at least 10 good examples. He's safe, he's standing on solid ground.



Are you saying I'm a moron, Bob? C'mon, man up. Don't mince. Say it right out. Be proud. Get yourself suspended for the holidays :)
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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December 25th, 2010 at 12:28:41 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Are you saying I'm a moron, Bob? C'mon, man up. Don't mince. Say it right out. Be proud. Get yourself suspended for the holidays :)



Its not for me to say, I'm simply the informed observer. The dunce hat will be won by the most deserving, my confidence lies with the judges sober and qualified decision..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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  • Posts: 24357
December 25th, 2010 at 6:45:36 AM permalink
Quote: Martin

JFC! I never said that come bets are somehow more likely to win than pass line bets you stupid moron. And also please don't bother to reply - you are no one to me.



Five-day suspension.

Quote: EvenBob

Fortunately, Martin can support his claim with at least 10 good examples. He's safe, he's standing on solid ground.



Bob, I'll give you the opportunity to provide the ten examples before I decide your punishment. You may also choose to apologize or retract the statement.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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  • Posts: 4874
December 25th, 2010 at 7:02:34 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Five-day suspension.



Bob, I'll give you the opportunity to provide the ten examples before I decide your punishment. You may also choose to apologize or retract the statement.



I think a lot of folks are getting tired of the argumentative trolls that have taken over this board. The two main ones have BOTH been RIGHT and they have both been WRONG about a variety of things--we all pretty much are like that in our opinions and, many times, in our knowledge and understanding of life in general. The difference is that they opine at great length and personally insult people ALL the time.

It is up to ownership to either stop this or continue to allow the board to go downhill. In my opinion, it has gone downhill a great deal since these two have come on board. You either have to read how smart each of them is, how stupid they think someone else is, etc. or ignore them...and ignoring them leaves a hole in the thread because the occasionally good point they make is lost in rambling.

Martin did cross the line, but if someone makes a statement that is clearly not what was said just to show how smart they are, they are attempting to push people across the line...

Anyway, I never was a large contributor to this board but I have always enjoyed it very much. That enjoyment has been reduced a lot by the two who always seem to be arguing here.
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 775
December 25th, 2010 at 11:17:07 AM permalink
Martin

I have to agree with you, I never have a pass-line bet, unless I have the dice in my hands, then I am paying rent on the table.

I only play place bets, and feel that there is no need for pass-line bets, and I don't care about the odds, there is no such thing as free odds, as you are paying for them with you pass-line bet!

Now here comes all the math guys, that are going to call me crazy, but the free odds were developed as a way to sell the pass-line bet, and it worked great! If you are a red chip player there is no need for the pass-line bet, and some times you come out better betting the placed bets!

$5 pass-line bet with $10 in so-called free odds on the 10 pays you, $5 pass-line bet pays even money then your $10 free odds pays true odds $20 so you just made $25, the math guys must be going nuts, man superrick can add after all!

Now dumb superrick will just place bet the 10 for the same amount of money $15,and when it hits I just made $27 if they didn't give me a free buy bet on the 10, like most of the casinos that I play at. Just think if I had the free buy bet I would have made $30! Gee this new math all these guys are talking about just doesn't add up to what I was taught in school!

I think I will stick with my place betting, and the old math I was taught. Place betting is the way to go, it only has to hit once, and you can pull your profit off the table, you do not have to stay up till the point is made, that you didn't want to begin with, or the guy that is shooting 7's out!

I don't know what we would do with out the math guys, I can't say enough good things about them, as we all need to know the math of the game, but some times it's just “please don't tell me it's a bad bet”!

7winner... I don't know what tipping has to do with anything about being a place bettors, maybe what you are seeing is from the fact that the place betters might know a little more about the game and are only tipping if they get good service!

When you are standing on the other side of the table, and it's your hard-earned money on the table, and the dealers are jerks, it's not the players duty to tip for lousy service!

Quote:

In my over 30 years of dealing Dice, the loudest players when it comes to the best was of winning were the place bettors.
The largest consistent losers...the place bettors.
The worst tippers...you guessed it...the place bettors.



Not all players are the same, I tip because the dealers knew what they were doing, and treated me with respect, they also gave me good service!

...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
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December 25th, 2010 at 11:24:15 AM permalink
I bet both ways depending on what I am enjoying doing. The math does prove that pass/come betting with free odds is "optimal"--while it is true that you only have to hit the "place" number once to win, you also don't have the advantage during the come out process...

If I am in the casino and I feel like strictly making place/come plus odds bets, that is what I do. If I feel like placing numbers I do it. I like the 4/10 bought for a quarter, but it the odds are against me at most places I play (vig up front).

I believe in knowing what is best and then playing the way that I feel like playing...it is my entertainment dollar. I want to be entertained!!
7winner
7winner
Joined: May 31, 2010
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December 25th, 2010 at 12:59:37 PM permalink
Quote: RonC

I believe in knowing what is best and then playing the way that I feel like playing...it is my entertainment dollar. I want to be entertained!!



That is a very good attitude to have.
Nothing wrong with it.

But again, I have 32 years and 4 months dealing Dice full time, swing shift in Vegas Casinos. Seen all types of players come and go.
Every player that played at a Craps table I dealt at wanted to win.

Sure, entertainment was on the list but at the top was still winning.
The best part was most knew that the chances of winning were against them and they settled for the entertainment and good service I always gave, no matter how I felt at the time.

Now there were the jokers who would offer unsolicited advice on how to play Craps.
"Make place bets, that is where the money is" to a few new players asking how to play Craps.
I would shake my head and say the best bet to make right now on the come out roll is a pass line bet.
The place bettors would yell and scream, foaming at the mouth, spitting their beer all over the table that I was so wrong, never make pass line bets or even come bets, since the number has to hit twice before you win once!

I say again to all you loud mouthed place bettors, and you do know who you are...
No one wants your advice.
1) The LOUDEST players when it comes to giving advice of the best ways of winning were the place bettors.
2) The largest consistent losers...the place bettors.
3) The worst tippers...you guessed it again...the place bettors.

Why were loud place bettors the worst tippers??
Because they wanted the dealers to do everything for them right NOW," pay me NOW" they would scream, as they spit their beer all over the chips and table, they wanted to get paid on the come out roll, they lost more than others and used that as an excuse to NOT tip.

If you are not one of those type of loud place bettors, I congratulate you.
I'm sure we will hear from the one's that are!

For me, I was 99.99% a pass line only bettor.
.01% place bettor.
7 winner chicken dinner!
7winner
7winner
Joined: May 31, 2010
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December 25th, 2010 at 1:08:07 PM permalink
Quote: superrick


Not all players are the same, I tip because the dealers knew what they were doing, and treated me with respect, they also gave me good service!
...


Excellent and that is the way it should be...but in reality...
Craps winners tip more often, Craps players that lose tip very rarely.

Just because, as a dealer, we give good service, treat our players with respect and we know what we are doing, less than 33% of players tipped.

It still boiled down to did they win or did they lose.

Back in the 70s we could get away with more hustling tokes, it was done with humor and in fun, but worked to a tee.
Almost everyone toked back then. But too many dealers abused it. I miss those days. $500 tip nights!
7 winner chicken dinner!
RonC
RonC
Joined: Jan 18, 2010
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 4874
December 25th, 2010 at 1:32:46 PM permalink
Quote: 7winner

But again, I have 32 years and 4 months dealing Dice full time, swing shift in Vegas Casinos. Seen all types of players come and go.
Every player that played at a Craps table I dealt at wanted to win.



Yes--I want to win. I just know that the odds are against me NO MATTER WHAT BET I make. Sometimes I win; sometimes I lose. I have about the same results each time I play--some winning "sessions" (don't want part of that whole discussion...a session as defined here is merely a period of play beginning with a buy in and ending when I color up), some losing ones, and some are even. Pretty much in line with the odds on the bets I am making...bigger swings with more risky bets...

Quote: 7winner

Now there were the jokers who would offer unsolicited advice on how to play Craps.
"Make place bets, that is where the money is" to a few new players asking how to play Craps.
I would shake my head and say the best bet to make right now on the come out roll is a pass line bet.
The place bettors would yell and scream, foaming at the mouth, spitting their beer all over the table that I was so wrong, never make pass line bets or even come bets, since the number has to hit twice before you win once!



It is amazing how bad the advice is from players and dealers at the craps table. I hear stuff every single time that makes my head spin!! I will only offer advice based on the odds of the game and tell people (that ask me; no unsolicited advice) that everyone fins their own way to play. I don't mind hearing about "how you always win" as I watch you lose; I just want an honest assessment of the odds you are playing against...

It sounds like you are one of the great dealers who makes the game enjoyable...those ALWAYS get tips from me whatever my bets are. Their service is what gets them the tip; not my risky betting patterns!! I tip early and often when the dealers help me have a great time.

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